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Loooong Break - want to get into 8th...


Portman

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Hey All,

 

So I've been getting back into the hobby this year after not playing since 1999 and 3rd edition. I've picked up a few old copies of Space Hulk, the 2nd edition 40K boxed set, a load of old Miniatures, dug out my old 3rd and RT rule books and have generally had a blast getting back into collecting and painting. 

 

All of these goings on has sparked an interest in my 15 year old Daughter, unsurprisingly I guess as she's a bit steampunk/goth and loves anything retro. I'm going to give her a few games of SH soon to introduce her into the hobby and playing table top miniature games but she's expressed an interest in playing 40K - which is blooming cool as I get an excuse to play.

 

Now to be honest I'd be more than happy to just play RT, 2nd or 3rd ed. and leave it at that - I have all of the rule books etc. and I much prefer the old Skool mini's.... BUT.... If she get's into it seriously (Which I'm hoping) learning a really old edition isn't going to do her any good if she wants to join a group or visit a GW Store - so I've been thinking of learning and teaching her 8th. I have the core rule book on order, but I'm guessing in this day and age that it's not going to allow me to play right off the bat like 3rd did when it had all the army lists etc. included...  (rose tinted glasses...)

 

So the question I have is - what else am I going to need (book wise) so that I can play some simple games (probably using my old 2nd edition boxed mini's - retro!) with her to start with, and then build up to something bigger? 

 

Do you even recommend 8th? 

 

Cheers dudes! 

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Hello fellow time traveler! 
I was reawakened this past week from the 'Third Age' of 40K. 

Many have been suggesting Kill Team as a starter. Let's one begin with a small group of models, in case you want to try different army figures. Smaller games, so not too intense timewise. I haven't played it yet as I'm still going through the many many different armies there are now. 

Good luck in restarting in this new Golden Age of Grim Darkness. :wink: 

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You really only need the rules and a Codex for your army, and the (very) basic rules can be downloaded form GW Direct:

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battle-Primer-2017-ENG

 

However, it is worth getting the full rulebook either on its own or one of the starter boxsets - especially if you want your daughter to have some of the newer releases.

 

Going forward you can expand further but it's all optional. For example, the link below is something pinned on the Blood Angels forum for new members that contains all the sourcebooks, etc, for that particular faction. Whilst it may appear slightly daunting, it still all optional:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350496-blood-angels-sourcebooks-for-8th-edition/?do=findComment&comment=5171525

 

On a personal note, I still use a lot of models from that era; there are still rules for them and they can (to a degree anyway) hold their own in today's game so it's definitely worth using them to learn the game :)

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Welcome back, I second KillTeam, wont cost you so much to have a respectable team compared to a big army and you and your daughter can give it ago and see if she finds it at all fun. When you have outgrown that you can use your kill team to build from.

 

Unfortunetly right now the Kill Team starter set is so back logged you might have to wait a few weeks for a delivery. But even so it really is the best way to get into 40k now.

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40k-Kill-Team-2018-eng

 

You can also get around 20% off that price by buying from a local retailer, if you can tell us which country you live in someone will be able to tell you some online or local shops. If you're from the UK as it says then try:

 

Element Games(Very good service, slightly pricier)

Wayland Games(Normally cheaper but has a surcharge on bulky items, slightly longer postage)

Darksphere(Cheaper but no reduction on postage, I am new to these guys but so far so good)

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I'll second most of what has been said, though I'd add that even though Kill Team is totally amazeballs it's maybe better as a gateway into what models *she'll* want to collect rather than as necessarily a better intro as you already have a bunch of miniatures. Assuming you go full 8th edition 40k, the rulebook and associated codexes for whatever armies you'd be playing with are good. Alternately, maybe look into the current starter box Dark Imperium. It includes the main rulebook, get you started rules for what comes in it, as well as a good chunk of Primaris Marines and Death Guard. This way is it doesn't gel with her, you'll at least have some cool minis to paint that can mesh with the old Marines you have.
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Welcome! As someone who came back from early second edition at the end of fifth, I know how it feels to wonder how to proceed. As well as the above advice, it might be a good move to see what army or armies your daughter is interested in. That way it would be easier to work out what things you need. Most armies in 8th edition have a Kill Team rules set (Sisters, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Daemons and Custodes being the exception), so you could buy one of the box sets to start things off and then expand further once you're both ready. If you haven't already, pointing her in the direction of a few lore sites might spark an interest in a faction or two. Of course, showing her this site might help too ;)
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Welcome back to 40k.

 

I personally love playing 8th edition (so long as it's not competetive). It's fast, fun, and a very solid edition. If you're looking to play really small games, I'd definitely suggest going with Kill team.

 

I'd also suggest looking into what sort of group your daughter's interested in.

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Welcome back, Brother!  I have played since 2003 with late 3rd edition, and I personally find 8th edition to be the most enjoyable edition.  It is built for ease of use and simplicity, which at first made the game simplistic, but as almost all factions have received codexes, the depth of gameplay has risen, while the complexity of casual play has only bumped up a little.  If you were to get into the competitive scene, the game changes a bit, but that is something better spoken about by those interested in that aspect of the game. 

 

Hobby wise, the modern paints are faaar superior to the old paints, and the amount of plastic used versus metal/resin makes conversions a snap. 

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Thanks for the responses guys - It's appreciated!

 

I understand the thoughts on KT, it does seem a totally cool game, but as I already have a couple of copies of earlier 40k and SH I think I have enough to introduce her - not saying I won't get IT at a later date though :-)

 

So it IS still the main rule plus codex route - ok that's not too bad. She's actually quite interested in both the Orks and the Genestealers I have so I'll start there.

 

Thanks!

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Sorry - Just an additional question - So what are the index's?

Collections of rules for armies that don't have codices yet, or for rules/datasheets for models GW doesn't make anymore. Cheaper than a full codex.

 

For example: Ork Warboss in Mega-Armour, 90% of Biker HQs/Elites

 

If your daughter is interested in Orks, I HIGHLY suggest getting the Index, as a good chunk of Ork units are Index-Only. Such as the aforementioned Warboss in Mega-Armour, and all of the Ork Biker HQs (Warboss, Big Mek, Painboy, etc).

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Thanks for the responses guys - It's appreciated!

 

I understand the thoughts on KT, it does seem a totally cool game, but as I already have a couple of copies of earlier 40k and SH I think I have enough to introduce her - not saying I won't get IT at a later date though :-)

 

So it IS still the main rule plus codex route - ok that's not too bad. She's actually quite interested in both the Orks and the Genestealers I have so I'll start there.

 

Thanks!

I don't have any advice to offer beyond what the sages here have suggested, but I thought I'd post as I'm in exactly the same boat as you.

My son found some of my old models in a box in the attic and was instantly fascinated. I haven't touched a mini or thought about gaming really since 3e came out and I stopped, but all of a sudden I'm totally enthused again. 

 

Sitting cutting up plastic and getting paint on my clothes is a nice counterpoint to my other, more energetic, hobbies I suppose. 

 

My lad is only 7 so the games are a bit beyond him for the time being, but he loves having a few models of his own (Codex Space Marines, obviously) and he's totally fascinated by the 40k universe. 

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When 8th edition came out all the 7th edition codexes became paper weights so they needed a way to release all of them with the new 8th rules. So they released 5? books with all the armies new rules in them. They have now almost released all the codexes, but there is usually a huge difference in competative power between an index army and an army with a codex.

 

Now the rules state that you can still use index rules as long as the codex doesn't have the same option in it, therefore overuling it. Quite a few codexes have lost options that were available in the indexes but you can still use them. I would suggest that you keep the indexes in the back of your mind for now. Buy the codex of the army you want, get used to it and then if you really want to explore it further you can grab the index and see if theres anything extra. If you are both getting into it, it will be alot easier if you don't have to look in three books(rules, codex, index) when two will definetly do.

 

Orks have just received their codex so its all a buzz right now, maybe it's worth getting the Speed Freeks box set. All models are codex models but it is boxed with a ruleset close to Starwars: Armarda? Also Gene-stealers haven't got their codex yet so if you can wait they will get it soon and you can enjoy the build up of hype and the glory of the new GW release cycle. There are some box sets that have Gene-stealers such as Tooth and Claw.

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Honestly the nicest things about the indexes. Is that it lets you know the vague rules of the various army. For relatively cheap without buying the codexes or stealing.

 

I look at my Xenos and Chaos Indexes often for exactly that reason

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Brother Portman, welcome back, I agree with the above, Kill Team's a great choice, but just a quick reply on this:

 

Sorry - Just an additional question - So what are the index's?

 

The above brothers are right, but just providing a point of reference, knowing you started with Rogue Trader to 3rd ed.

 

Remember when you opened the 2nd ed boxed set, there were new rules, all those models, the piece of cardboard Ork Dread?  There was also a thin booklet with all the army lists with points values, just so you can take your existing models from RT and play them with the 2nd ed rules, until their proper codices came out.  The index's are like that, coming immediately after the 8th ed rules.

 

Of interest to you and your daughter are:

 

Index: Imperium 1 has all the Space Marine stats/points before their codices.  Link: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Index-imperium-vol-1-eng-2017

 

Index: Xenos 2 has Orks, Tau, Tyranids, Genestealer Cult (just happened that way).  Link: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Index-xenos-vol-2-eng-2017

 

As said above, although designed to be used immediately after 8th ed rules came out, the indices continue to remain relevant even after their respective codices came out.  It's because they have a few units not covered by the new rules, so remain available options.  It's usually a few HQ units or wargear options.

 

Conclusion, these indices were initially just a stop-gap solution for 8th ed to let players continue playing their armies until their codices came out, but even after that, they're still worth using.  Something to consider as an easy way to slide back into The Hobby yet would still be useful in the future.

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Welcome back, I second KillTeam, wont cost you so much to have a respectable team compared to a big army and you and your daughter can give it ago and see if she finds it at all fun. When you have outgrown that you can use your kill team to build from.

 

Unfortunetly right now the Kill Team starter set is so back logged you might have to wait a few weeks for a delivery. But even so it really is the best way to get into 40k now.

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40k-Kill-Team-2018-eng

 

You can also get around 20% off that price by buying from a local retailer, if you can tell us which country you live in someone will be able to tell you some online or local shops. If you're from the UK as it says then try:

 

Element Games(Very good service, slightly pricier)

Wayland Games(Normally cheaper but has a surcharge on bulky items, slightly longer postage)

Darksphere(Cheaper but no reduction on postage, I am new to these guys but so far so good)

I second this and add

https://www.triplehelixwargames.co.uk

To the list

Welcome! As someone who came back from early second edition at the end of fifth, I know how it feels to wonder how to proceed. As well as the above advice, it might be a good move to see what army or armies your daughter is interested in. That way it would be easier to work out what things you need. Most armies in 8th edition have a Kill Team rules set (Sisters, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Daemons and Custodes being the exception), so you could buy one of the box sets to start things off and then expand further once you're both ready. If you haven't already, pointing her in the direction of a few lore sites might spark an interest in a faction or two. Of course, showing her this site might help too ;)

Grey Knights have rules!!!

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Really? I must have blinked and missed them. I haven't kept up with a kill Team as closely as I'd like. But still, KT is a good way of getting into 40k again :)
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Same here. Started at the end of 2nd, played 3rd and 4th, cityfight...

 

Picked up "first strike" for cheap, my son loves it. He's 8. We play a kill-team/small board/8th edition mix at the moment. He loves making lego vehicles/tanks and I have to defeat them, somehow. I am trying to teach him that a game needs a "balance". I think he's starting to see that now :biggrin.:

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Same here. Started at the end of 2nd, played 3rd and 4th, cityfight...

 

Picked up "first strike" for cheap, my son loves it. He's 8. We play a kill-team/small board/8th edition mix at the moment. He loves making lego vehicles/tanks and I have to defeat them, somehow. I am trying to teach him that a game needs a "balance". I think he's starting to see that now :biggrin.:

Hah, that's a great idea.

When kids are that age they just want to win, all the time. 

have you shown him 40k titans/knights and is he completely obsessed? My son is extremely disappointed his Primaris captain can't drive a knight.

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Sorry - Just an additional question - So what are the index's?

Collections of rules for armies that don't have codices yet, or for rules/datasheets for models GW doesn't make anymore. Cheaper than a full codex.

 

For example: Ork Warboss in Mega-Armour, 90% of Biker HQs/Elites

 

If your daughter is interested in Orks, I HIGHLY suggest getting the Index, as a good chunk of Ork units are Index-Only. Such as the aforementioned Warboss in Mega-Armour, and all of the Ork Biker HQs (Warboss, Big Mek, Painboy, etc).

 

Um, seeing she can't buy these models anymore, and Orks are very bad in Index, I can't see why you would do that. I'd grab her the Codex and some starter set instead of wasting money on Index, unless you want to start simple, but even in that case Kill Team would be probably better investment than Index especially seeing it comes with GSC minis...

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Sorry - Just an additional question - So what are the index's?

Collections of rules for armies that don't have codices yet, or for rules/datasheets for models GW doesn't make anymore. Cheaper than a full codex.

 

For example: Ork Warboss in Mega-Armour, 90% of Biker HQs/Elites

 

If your daughter is interested in Orks, I HIGHLY suggest getting the Index, as a good chunk of Ork units are Index-Only. Such as the aforementioned Warboss in Mega-Armour, and all of the Ork Biker HQs (Warboss, Big Mek, Painboy, etc).

Um, seeing she can't buy these models anymore, and Orks are very bad in Index, I can't see why you would do that. I'd grab her the Codex and some starter set instead of wasting money on Index, unless you want to start simple, but even in that case Kill Team would be probably better investment than Index especially seeing it comes with GSC minis...

Reasons why:

 

The index is 25 USD, the new Speedboss ACTUALLY sucks compared to the Index Biker boss, and it's hilariously easy to make a Warboss with Mega armour from the Mega Nobs kit.

 

Also, Orks are bad in the index? lolwut

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He's 8. We play a kill-team/small board/8th edition mix at the moment. He loves making lego vehicles/tanks and I have to defeat them, somehow.

 

 

Yep, did that with my 8 year old as well (he's 23 now and on a submarine :) ). We also used "green army men" for IG and plastic M48 tanks for Leman Russes.

 

Great times indeed.

 

and Orks are very bad in Index, I can't see why you would do that. I'd grab her the Codex and some starter set instead of wasting money on Index,

 

 

Let's keep in mind that this isn't ITC or some other competitive show, he just wants to have fun with his daughter.

 

So, low cost to have some fun should be a consideration.

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and Orks are very bad in Index, I can't see why you would do that. I'd grab her the Codex and some starter set instead of wasting money on Index,

 

 

Let's keep in mind that this isn't ITC or some other competitive show, he just wants to have fun with his daughter.

 

So, low cost to have some fun should be a consideration.

 

But that's exactly what I said - kids don't have much fun if they constantly lose. Seeing she isn't some sort of hardcore OoT player, capable of optimizing Index junk into playable levels, giving her book that will boost her army a bit (and also contain all the new, cool models, while not having old, legacy stuff that can't be bought anymore) is more conductive to fun, IMO. Plus, there are better ways to limit spending than that.

 

It's not saving money if you waste all of it on inferior product that ticks no boxes. Honestly, as of now, I'd really only touch an Index if you can have it secondhand for pennies. Buying new one is straight waste of money, especially seeing that if you really care about fun, I'd imagine colorful book with stories and art would be more appealing to a kid than dry tables with numbers and nothing interesting to give you a break or inspire you.

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This may be slightly off-topic - but for a kid who is collecting a Space Marine army and seems to like the primaris concept; is the best value way of doing it just do buy the Dark Imperium box set?

 

At some point I'll want to get the 8th ed rules; by the time I've forked out for that I'm halfway towards the price of Dark Imperium anyway.

I don't want the Death Guard bu as I worked it out you get them free once you've added up the value of the SM's plus the rulebook.

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