Ishagu Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I see lists online but I always think they miss the mark or are influenced by personal likes and dislikes. I'm hoping we can come up wit a definitive list as a forum - The condition is that you can't be an immortal Warp entity or avatar of the Chaos Gods. To this extent should Celestine also not make the list? In lose order (we can adjust) 1: Roboute Guilliman 2: Ezikiel Abaddon 3: Kaldor Draigo 4: Trajan Valoris 5: Mephiston 6: Typhus 7: Ahriman 8: Eldrad Ulthran 9: Yvraine 10: Ghazghskull Thraka Other candidates: Celestine, Farsight, Khârn, Calgar, Dante, Cawl, The Silent King, Yarrick Anyone I'm missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Wait, are Guilliman, Abaddon, Typhus, and Ahriman really mortal, though? Guilliman is a Primarch, and the other three are arguably players in the Great Game of Chaos. I'm not sure they fit on a list of "mortals" as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 I think Abaddon is certainly claiming to be the mortal master of his own destiny? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I should probably clarify that I don't mean mortal in the sense that they can't die, but rather if they get removed, it causes a fundamental shift in the setting. If Huron Blackheart dies, it causes some shakeups in the Maelstrom and the Red Corsairs. If Abaddon dies for real, you might as well put the game away, as it's done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Marines often refer to others as mere mortals implying they don't see themselves as mortals. It's also to be clarified what counts as powerful. I'd say the leader of the AdMech is more powerful than Typhus for example. ^^ Anyway, going with your list I'd say Ahriman is more powerful than Mephiston. Mephiston is an exceptionally powerful psyker and has even for Marines superhuman strength, but is still within reach of regular Marines and his psychic feats aren't as impressive as Ahrimans imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobWrath Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 What about Emps? He's still pretty powerful, even crippled as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 If Abaddon dies for real, you might as well put the game away, as it's done... Um, why? While I will freely admit to despising the character (especially recently, he's just too much of a 'just as planned' Sue character) I wouldn't describe him as a 'setting supporting' villain. He could be replaced as big bad bogeyman of Chaos without any major changes in the fundamentals of the setting. The Imperium would still be fighting/sucking/crumbling (delete as appropriate, depending on the source you're reading) and Chaos would still be am existential threat at the gate/breaking the gate/running rampant through the broken gate (again, delete depending on source). You can have the forces of Chaos sans Abby. The only issue with killing Abby is 'who to replace him with?', which is more a 'failure' of GW to give him a stable of lieutenants/possible successors rather than the presence of Abby being fundamental to the 40k setting. Although with a bit of prep work, either Huron or returned Lorgar could work (or create someone new). Would it be a major shift in the 40k plot? Sure, but certainly not more extreme than ripping the Galaxy in half, bringing back the Primarchs, Primaris Marines or any number of changes we've seen since Gathering Storm dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I would say that no one on this list (or the "other candidates" list) is a "mortal" in that they all have been specifically altered/enhanced by some kind of supernatural power or use supernatural powers (aside from Farsight and Cawl). Farsight isn't either due to the influence and power of the Dawnblade and it's apparent life extending properties of the weapon, and even Cawl has specifically altered himself far beyond the "mortal" human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 The High Lords, since marines aren't mortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Arkley Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Yarrick.... What do I win :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 Marines ARE mortal lol (Despite what the ones guilty of hubris might say). This isn't a list of un-modified individuals. Giving a child a vaccine is artificially manipulating their immune system so they have added defences, as a far out example. The immortal beings of 40k are things like Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes and Primarchs, The Dark Gods, possibly the Emperor, Gork and Mork, the C'Tan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Caiphias Cain is pretty awesome. A lot of Tanith are pretty baller too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Marines ARE mortal lol (Despite what the ones guilty of hubris might say). This isn't a list of un-modified individuals. Giving a child a vaccine is artificially manipulating their immune system so they have added defences, as a far out example. The immortal beings of 40k are things like Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes and Primarchs, The Dark Gods, possibly the Emperor, Gork and Mork, the C'Tan... Where do the phoenix lords come in? As they are both mortal (they get killed) & immortal because the new person who puts on the armour becomes part of the phoenix lord edit - and marines are possibly immortal, HH books have them questioning that as no Marine has ever died of old age so they dont know one way or the other.... edit 2 - Col. Schaeffer should be considered as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 There was a Salamander who died of old age I believe, he'd been left abandoned on a planet. I believe most simply fall in battle eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 What counts as powerful? Ability to kill or ability to influence the setting? I'd probably move the Silent King up that list. That or remove him because he might be effectively immortal. Mephiston is a weird case in that he isn't that tough compared to other librarians but did shrug off the Black Rage which is extremely impressive. If we are going by what they've accomplished in fluff, Kaldor Draigo should be numbers one through ten because he's a crap character who automatically wins everything. I'm not sure if Yvraine belongs. She has the potential for sure but I think might be too new to compare to guys like Guilliman and Abbadon who have been shaping the galaxy for 10,000 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Marines ARE mortal lol (Despite what the ones guilty of hubris might say). This isn't a list of un-modified individuals. Giving a child a vaccine is artificially manipulating their immune system so they have added defences, as a far out example. The immortal beings of 40k are things like Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes and Primarchs, The Dark Gods, possibly the Emperor, Gork and Mork, the C'Tan... Hey, you gave your fictional definition, I gave a counter-point to it. Marines are supernatural due to their implanted organs, some of which function due to Space Magic, not actual scientific principles. Supernatural != "mortal" by my definiton, therefore the premise of the list is flawed. Mortals are those things that are not supernatural. A vaccine is an actual scientifically generated item and hardly supernatural, let's not get super-hyperbolic and get the thread locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 I define mortal as a being that can be killed and is not divine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Arkley Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I define mortal as a being that can be killed and is not divine. Ish its still Yarrick :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I'm hoping we can come up with a definitive list as a forumClearly we can't "as a forum," because the definition you use isn't universal for the forum. You'd be better off asking "Let's make a definitive list if you agree with my definition." Which is going to exclude part of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Are we going with powerful as in individual power in a battle against each other? Or powerful as in has lots of power at their disposal such as armies or technology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I define mortal as a being that can be killed and is not divine. So its the pheonix lords then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 Are we going with powerful as in individual power in a battle against each other? Or powerful as in has lots of power at their disposal such as armies or technology? Hmmm, could he both! I guess power creates influence and influence carries power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratherdashing Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Seeing the title I was really tempted to just meme it up and vote for CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT or something. But then I saw the thread unfortunately derailed by semantics... Guys, mortal can be lots of different things. Strictly it tends to mean "can't die of old age". But lots of settings also use it to mean "normal people", like when mages or superheroes with normal lifespans refer to others as "mere mortals". But that doesn't help this discussion. If we limit it to only unaugmented beings, we'll just he discussing the most skilled IG character. Then we'll get on a tangent if Xenos count as mortal if they just have ability standard to their race, and then we'll end up at Void Whales or something. The OP clearly defined what mortal means here. Not divine or force of nature. So anything that not, like, a god or a sentient storm or something is fair game. I don't know the setting well enough to make a vote, but I'm intrigued to hear it because these discussions tend to guide my Wiki browsing which helps me learn more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 There was a Salamander who died of old age I believe, he'd been left abandoned on a planet. I believe most simply fall in battle eventually. He didn't so much die of old age as he had to be euthanized because he was stuck on that ship for 10,000 years, bolted to a chair, and his body had essentially atrophied to uselessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Are we going with powerful as in individual power in a battle against each other? Or powerful as in has lots of power at their disposal such as armies or technology?Hmmm, could he both! I guess power creates influence and influence carries power. In that case I’d add: Fabricator General High Marshal Helbrecht (Templars are rumoured to be closer to Legion size than a chapter) Lord Commander Militant (or really any of the high lords) Commander of Battlefleet Solar Vorn Hagen (The phalanx is a pretty powerful tool to have at your disposal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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