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**Rumoured** Ravenwing detachment in Vigilus campaign book


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49 replies to this topic

#26
G8Keeper

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Remember IF had two pages like us and got 2 stratagems, a warlord trait and a relic too (I think, unless I'm going mad).  Our two pages I would put forth have more than just an Attack squadron rule.


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#27
Dragonglave

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Apparently they're showing off the imperium formations tomorrow so with any luck we'll know more soon


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#28
SinnerBeta

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I was happy to hear that they're adding special detachments because I thought DA will something for Deathwing and Ravenwing. But then I saw the index and of course it's only Ravenwing getting something, lol.



#29
G8Keeper

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We got no new info from today's article sadly.  Just a mention that it's coming.


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#30
Naaman10th

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Ok guys, here we go smile.png

 

Attack Squadron 1CP: Pick a Dark Angels Detachment, all Ravenwing units gain the Attack Squadron keyword

 

Stratagems:

Swift Strike 2 CP: Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase after an Attack Squadron unit from your army has fought. That unit can immediately make a move (and Advance) as if it were the Movement Phase. If there are any enemy units within 1" it can Fall Back instead.

 

Signal the Attack 1CP: Use this Stratagem after an Attack Squadron unit from your army has attacked an enemy unit in the Shooting phase and the attack resulted in the enemy unit losing one or more wounds. Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by other Attack Squadron units from your army that target the same enemy unit in this phase.

 

 

Warlord Trait:

Lighting-fast Reactions: You can always choose your Warlord to fight first in the Fight phase, even if they didn't charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have similar abilities, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

 

 

Relic:

Monster Slayer of Caliban 

Powersword Replacement +2S -3AP D3 Damage

Add 1 to wound rolls for attack that target enemy monster or enemy vehicle units

 

 

 

My hype status: Both stratagems seem really useful and strong, really hyped about them. Signal the Attack will help countering -1 to hit so overcharged knights don't die on 2s. Not sure what to make of the warlord trait, so far I'm not too excited about it. The relic seems to be a vehicle slayer version of the heavenfall blade. No extra attack and D3 damage won't make it an auto include in my opinion.

 

Overall I'm pretty excited and eager to test it out. With the points drops to speeders, bikes and knights i feel pure ravenwing (+scouts) might stand a fighting chance again.


Edited by Naaman10th, 08 December 2018 - 12:29 PM.

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#31
BlackTriton

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Thanks for sharing Naaman10th !

 

I really like swift strike, movement is essential to the game and a big reason to take Ravenwing.

Signal the attack makes me reconsider attack bike. With the (large) point decrease and now a way to offset the -1 from moving and shooting, it might just be worth it. 

Monster slayer is nice when you already gave the Heavenfall blade and want another.

lightning-fast reaction is not that interesting. The ability to pay 1 CP and have it as an extra WT make it a nice tool, if situational. 



#32
G8Keeper

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I'm liking it, although for CP I'm still needing those scouts to make up a battalion. Some interesting effects here though, especially as pointed out already our options are increased with very welcome points drops.

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#33
CyberC1

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I'm pretty sure I'm just being dense but can you guys explain Swift Strike to me? The way it reads implies that one of your attack squadron units must have fought in the fight phase before you can use it. Wouldn't that mean the unit either has to be falling back, or it's another unit that's not engaged that gets a free move? Why not just say at the end of the fight phase?

I'm not sold on the monster Slayer. The only viable candidate to put it on is the Talonmaster, making him Str 6, so most of the time you'll still need 4's to wound T7 or T8. I'm not sure I want my ravenwing in close combat anyway. Same deal with Lightning fast reactions though coupled with Swift Strike you can do a number of hit and run actions, which could be useful.

Edit: I'm being dense. I think I figured it out. You can then interrupt combat. Fight, then run away. Nice. Lots of CP needed...

Edited by CyberC1, 08 December 2018 - 02:36 PM.


#34
JJD

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I'm pretty sure I'm just being dense but can you guys explain Swift Strike to me? The way it reads implies that one of your attack squadron units must have fought in the fight phase before you can use it. Wouldn't that mean the unit either has to be falling back, or it's another unit that's not engaged that gets a free move? Why not just say at the end of the fight phase?

I'm not sold on the monster Slayer. The only viable candidate to put it on is the Talonmaster, making him Str 6, so most of the time you'll still need 4's to wound T7 or T8. I'm not sure I want my ravenwing in close combat anyway. Same deal with Lightning fast reactions though coupled with Swift Strike you can do a number of hit and run actions, which could be useful.

Edit: I'm being dense. I think I figured it out. You can then interrupt combat. Fight, then run away. Nice. Lots of CP needed...


I read it as if you fought and wiped out your enemy you can move freely. If you fought and you are still in combat you can fall back.

#35
CyberC1

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Yeah that's right.  There's a fair bit of usefulness here when coupled with Lightning Reflexes, Eye of the Unseen, or the Interrupt combat strategem.  That way you can get in a swipe at 'em before you back out of combat.  It doesn't specify in your own fight phase either, so presumably you could get charged, you jump the bugger first with your sword, and then laugh as you run away on ur bike/speeder/etc. And then you can move and shoot normally again in your turn because your fallback move was in the previous fight phase, not the movement phase.  I think.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure I'm just being dense but can you guys explain Swift Strike to me? The way it reads implies that one of your attack squadron units must have fought in the fight phase before you can use it. Wouldn't that mean the unit either has to be falling back, or it's another unit that's not engaged that gets a free move? Why not just say at the end of the fight phase?

I'm not sold on the monster Slayer. The only viable candidate to put it on is the Talonmaster, making him Str 6, so most of the time you'll still need 4's to wound T7 or T8. I'm not sure I want my ravenwing in close combat anyway. Same deal with Lightning fast reactions though coupled with Swift Strike you can do a number of hit and run actions, which could be useful.

Edit: I'm being dense. I think I figured it out. You can then interrupt combat. Fight, then run away. Nice. Lots of CP needed...


I read it as if you fought and wiped out your enemy you can move freely. If you fought and you are still in combat you can fall back.

 



#36
STTAB

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Lightning fast reactions could be used to avoid overwatch given the speed of Ravenwing.

Rift canons with +2 to hit a ground target. Yes please. A lot to digest with all the changes. Can't wait for battlescribe to update.

#37
SinnerBeta

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Signal the attack seems really strong, especially for 1CP:

- you can give the Attack Squadron keyword to any Ravenwing unit, including Black Knights or the Nephilim Jetfighter

- it requires you only to wound once and you can use it at any point you wound, no need to declare before shooting with a unit

- it works on all your other units once used and works until the end of the phasa

So you can say encircle a tough target, blast him with Black Knights and after that spend 1 CP and give bonuses to your Land Speeders, flyers and other Black Knights.

 

I hope Deathwing gets something on this level, or a CP discount on Deathwing Assault.



#38
CyberC1

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Maybe we'll get Deathwing in Vigilus book 2?  Ravenwing first, Deathwing second...?

 

 

Signal the attack seems really strong, especially for 1CP:

- you can give the Attack Squadron keyword to any Ravenwing unit, including Black Knights or the Nephilim Jetfighter

- it requires you only to wound once and you can use it at any point you wound, no need to declare before shooting with a unit

- it works on all your other units once used and works until the end of the phasa

So you can say encircle a tough target, blast him with Black Knights and after that spend 1 CP and give bonuses to your Land Speeders, flyers and other Black Knights.

 

I hope Deathwing gets something on this level, or a CP discount on Deathwing Assault.



#39
ValourousHeart

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Yeah that's right.  There's a fair bit of usefulness here when coupled with Lightning Reflexes, Eye of the Unseen, or the Interrupt combat strategem.  That way you can get in a swipe at 'em before you back out of combat.  It doesn't specify in your own fight phase either, so presumably you could get charged, you jump the bugger first with your sword, and then laugh as you run away on ur bike/speeder/etc. And then you can move and shoot normally again in your turn because your fallback move was in the previous fight phase, not the movement phase.  I think.

 

It sounds like Ravenwing just picked up an improved version of Hit and Run.  With some additional options to make it even better.



#40
Orkinstein

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Wow……I feel that my plasma landspeeder can overcharge without any risk

#41
Hantheman

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You can now also interrupt if your knights are charged, fight and then back away from whatever horror charged you if they don’t activate them first! Potentially huge.

Spider did not let me down with the exciting hints!

Edited by Hantheman, 08 December 2018 - 05:34 PM.


#42
Darmor

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A minimum 41" movement for Ravenwing for 3 CP (Speed of the raven+Swift strike) if your opponent makes a positioning mistake. If taken together with Acceptable Casualties (now playing for VPs became the only way to win, so the movement is enven more crucial), that's just purely great, IMHO.


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#43
TheWeepingAngel

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Very pleased with this detachment, and especially "signal the strike". I think the main challenge is going to be finding something that can reliably wound a target without requiring too much investment, so that your big hitters (big units of black knights, dark talons etc) can make the most of the stratagem. Maybe a couple of attack bikes, or a melta bike squad. Sammael on convex may even do the trick - he's not exactly a small investment, but in a ravenwing army you were taking him already. It depends on the target, but this stratagem will work best on big targets that you'll pour lots of firepower into (eg a knight), so it needs to be something that can happily punch through armour.
Is anyone having any brainwaves?


Edited by TheWeepingAngel, Yesterday, 09:18 PM.

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#44
Orkinstein

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If my calculation is correct, a RW landspedder character can move up to 93" in a game turn.

 

Your turn:

Move+Advance up to 22"

~ Speed of the Raven

Charge up to 12"

Pile in 3"

Consolidate 3"

~ Swift Strike

If no enemy models in 1" move up to 22"

 

Opponent's turn:

Heroic Intervention 3"

Pile in 3"

Consolidate 3"

~ Swift Strike

If no enemy models in 1" move up to 22"

 

Total will be 22+12+3+3+22+3+3+3+22=93

 

Swift Strike says that unit can immediately make a move (and Advance) as if it were the Movement Phase. So if you have fly key word, you can jump over units?



#45
Grand Master Raziel

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Signal The Attack also makes Land Speeders more valuable. Ironically, it reverses the relationship they had last edition. Now, the Speeders get +1 vs something the bikes have wounded!


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#46
AdmirableGoal

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Very pleased with this detachment, and especially "signal the strike". I think the main challenge is challenge is going to be finding something that can reliably wound a target without requiring too much investment, so that your big hitters (big units of black knights, dark talons etc) can make the most of the stratagem. Maybe a couple of attack bikes, or a melta bike squad. Sammael on convex may even do the trick - he's not exactly a small investment, but in a ravenwing army you were taking him already. It depends on the target, but this stratagem will work best on big targets that you'll pour lots of firepower into (eg a knight), so it needs to be something that can happily punch through armour.
Is anyone having any brainwaves?

 

I played a test game this morning with the new specialist detachments and CA changes so we could both, well, try out all of our fun new stuff.  It was last minute, so I just threw something together, but I had the same dilemma as you - who can reliably do this for whatever big target that needs to be painted for everyone else?  The trick, like you indicate, is that the units who can do it reliably  are the very people you want to benefit from the +1 to hit. I went with Sammael, but I put him in Sableclaw, because the 18 shots with his rerolls (and those provided by his adjacent talonmaster) tend to get at least one wound through, no matter the target.  

 

The detachment had only leaked an hour or two before the game, so I didn't have much time to internalize how it worked, and did almost mess it up with the Leman Russ I was trying to light up for everyone.*  I wasn't in range to shoot with the assault cannon, and got more than a little lucky that one of my heavy bolter shots successfully wounded it.  Sableclaw still seems like the easy answer to me, I'm just going to need to plan around making sure I paint something that's going to be within 24" of wherever Sammael lands to make sure it works.

 

There is, however, one other option that might work, and it happens to be a unit I wanted to run anyway.  Once the landspeeder points drop leaked last month I started thinking about fun things to do with it, and I keep coming back to...something extreme, and maybe not even good, but definitely hilarious.

 

With the CA changes, a squad of 3 landspeeders (for the antigrav upwash) with 2 heavy flamers each is 234 points.  If you deploy them forward, give them speed of the raven, and advance them, you've got a 28+D6 effective range to go full pyro with 6d6 autohitting attacks.  This is going to put a few wounds on whatever it shoots at if it can get into range, so it's a goofy but maybe fun option for Signal the Attack.  Personally, I'd probably add a fourth to make sure I keep the 20" move if they start shooting at my floating chaff barbeque aficionados.  Also, because I want to make sure I maximize the utility of my landspeeders who are literally burning out fallen from hiding.   ...hmm, maybe I need 5, just to be safe.

 

 

*I actually messed up a few things with the new detachment (and with the crummy, weird list I threw together in a hurry), but still a very fun first outing for a detachment that only leaked an hour or so before the game, well before I had time to really internalize how it worked. :)



#47
TheWeepingAngel

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Good on you for getting in and testing out the detachment so quickly, and thanks for sharing your experience.

 

The difficulty is going to be scoring that first wound on a target as efficiently as possible. I'm glad Sableclaw worked out for you, but I feel like there's got to be a better option. MM attack bikes, melta bikes, and land speeders are the current ideas I'm tossing up, with melta bikes being the frontrunners, I think. They don't really need the +1 to hit if you're in Sammael's buff range, can fairly reliably pop a wound on a tank, and are a small enough unit that you can take a few MSUs, and cycle through them until you get the wound (in which case, the others will get the +1 to hit as well).

 

Your land speeder idea is interesting, and in a vacuum could work. I think the difficulty is that there are other units that make better use of speed of the raven (black knights especially). But power to you - as a true Unforgiven I would never want to discourage you from purging heretics with the Emperor's holy flame



#48
MaxB

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Wow I am very excited about those strats!

 

Swift strike is just amazing - Ynarri prove how powerful double movement abilities can be. It just opens up a lot of options: Sammael charge in for his S8 swings then fly back to safety or use it to bounce Black knights out of combat (where they do ok, but not good enough to attempt it at the moment) out of LOS ready to act as normal next turn.

Maybe something to tie up backline units? I'd have to refresh my understanding of piling in etc. But should be able to hit a unit with a RW bike squad then Swift strike, then pop 3CP fight again strat to pile in and surround another unit keeping the Bikes safe till the following turn. Not sure if that's worth doing, but yeah just a cool strat with heaps of possibilities I reckon.



#49
BlackTriton

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No, you may not abuse the new strat to lock in combat another unit.

you have to make the move after you fought, wich is define by the fight sequence P182 BRB:

1. choose unit to fight

2. pile in up to 3''

3. choose target

4. choose melee weapon

5. resolve close combat attacks

6. consolidate

use Swift Strike here.

 

The stratagem allows a move or fall back, neither of which allow to end within 1'' of the enemy.



#50
SnakeChisler

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your not tied to working round terrain when you fall back with sam so could go perch on a building out of harms way






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