Ishagu Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Redemptors are far too expensive. They desperately need machine spirit or a big drop. I have two, and was super excited to run them when they first came out because of how good they look. The mini Knights do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 if you go over to the BA forum, neonmole has had huge success with a pure Primaris force that has the following: - Primaris Captain (WL artisan of war) - Primaris Lt - Smash Captain (hammer of baal) - 5 Intercessors - 5 Intercessors - 5 Intercessors - Redemptor Dreadnought (heavy onslaught) - Redemptor Dreadnought (heavy onslaught) - Repulsor (lascannon loadout) - Repulsor (lascannon loadout) - Repulsor (lascannon loadout) He placed very well in multiple tournaments, the last of which he got 9th out of 120 people! so pure primaris can work if you know what you're doing with them. (technically the smash captain isn't pure primaris of course, but its a single character) I just tried this list out, and while the repulsors were some real heavy hitters (and I should have been more aggressive with them), all I can say regarding the Redemptors is that they just suck. The lack of a machine spirit equivalent rule results in them always shooting at a 4+ when moving, and just gimps their ability to knock out enemy guns before they can shoot back. Which is only worsened by how the Redemptors degrade pretty quickly and don't have that many wounds either. IMO the Redemptors would be better swapped out with Aggressors, Inceptors, or just taking more non-primaris units. Although what maps did he play on anyway? Terrain probably effects the durability of Redemptors greatly. You can find his Armyproject thread which includes batreps and pictures here (already linked you to the post where he used that list): http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333543-grimdark-blood-angels-blog-191118-amsterdam-gt-report/?p=5194408 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMarsh Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Primaris lists suffer from some major issues that they cannot easily overcome. They also have some strengths. Primarily I find the Intercessor to be a fantastic troop choice for a Space Marine army, to the extent that I haven't run anything but Intercessors in my Imperial Fist Successor, Salamander Successor, and Deathwatch Army since their respect books came out. Aggressors have provided me some excellent moments and Hellblasters are fantastic anti-heavy infantry and a decent makeshift anti-armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 if you go over to the BA forum, neonmole has had huge success with a pure Primaris force that has the following: - Primaris Captain (WL artisan of war) - Primaris Lt - Smash Captain (hammer of baal) - 5 Intercessors - 5 Intercessors - 5 Intercessors - Redemptor Dreadnought (heavy onslaught) - Redemptor Dreadnought (heavy onslaught) - Repulsor (lascannon loadout) - Repulsor (lascannon loadout) - Repulsor (lascannon loadout) He placed very well in multiple tournaments, the last of which he got 9th out of 120 people! so pure primaris can work if you know what you're doing with them. (technically the smash captain isn't pure primaris of course, but its a single character) I just tried this list out, and while the repulsors were some real heavy hitters (and I should have been more aggressive with them), all I can say regarding the Redemptors is that they just suck. The lack of a machine spirit equivalent rule results in them always shooting at a 4+ when moving, and just gimps their ability to knock out enemy guns before they can shoot back. Which is only worsened by how the Redemptors degrade pretty quickly and don't have that many wounds either. IMO the Redemptors would be better swapped out with Aggressors, Inceptors, or just taking more non-primaris units. Although what maps did he play on anyway? Terrain probably effects the durability of Redemptors greatly. You can find his Armyproject thread which includes batreps and pictures here (already linked you to the post where he used that list): http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333543-grimdark-blood-angels-blog-191118-amsterdam-gt-report/?p=5194408 That explains it. The list my friend threw together to test against it on TTS was Iron Warriors with four squads of havocs in cover, with the terrain consisting of a bombed out hive city where in order to get a shot at them you needed to move the Redemptor out of cover. Repulsors did a decent job massacring Iron Warrior armor support but the Redemptors just took a couple lascannon shots each and were immediately degraded to Ork accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 A primaris army biggest problems are mobility and anti-tank. Two things the Repulsor helps a lot with but for Repulsors to work you need at least 2-3 of them which usually doesn't leave many points for actual Marines in the list unfortunately. What I can tell is that the Redemptor Dreads aren't in there for their shooting power. You could do that with just more Repulsors as well. However they provide some form of melee punch without having the HQs to do all the heavy lifting. If your opponents concentrates all his anti-tank fire power on the Redemptors then that's fine as well since it leaves the Repulsors with more wounds to do their job for longer. And yeah playing aggressively with such a list is mandatory. You go to the middle of the table and defend it as if it's been your zone the whole time lol That explains it. The list my friend threw together to test against it on TTS was Iron Warriors with four squads of havocs in cover, with the terrain consisting of a bombed out hive city where in order to get a shot at them you needed to move the Redemptor out of cover. Repulsors did a decent job massacring Iron Warrior armor support but the Redemptors just took a couple lascannon shots each and were immediately degraded to Ork accuracy. Yeah fighting an entranched army with lots of heavy weapons is tough, especially for something like Dreads. Not a very representative match I'd say tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 A primaris army biggest problems are mobility and anti-tank. Two things the Repulsor helps a lot with but for Repulsors to work you need at least 2-3 of them which usually doesn't leave many points for actual Marines in the list unfortunately. What I can tell is that the Redemptor Dreads aren't in there for their shooting power. You could do that with just more Repulsors as well. However they provide some form of melee punch without having the HQs to do all the heavy lifting. If your opponents concentrates all his anti-tank fire power on the Redemptors then that's fine as well since it leaves the Repulsors with more wounds to do their job for longer. And yeah playing aggressively with such a list is mandatory. You go to the middle of the table and defend it as if it's been your zone the whole time lol That explains it. The list my friend threw together to test against it on TTS was Iron Warriors with four squads of havocs in cover, with the terrain consisting of a bombed out hive city where in order to get a shot at them you needed to move the Redemptor out of cover. Repulsors did a decent job massacring Iron Warrior armor support but the Redemptors just took a couple lascannon shots each and were immediately degraded to Ork accuracy. Yeah fighting an entranched army with lots of heavy weapons is tough, especially for something like Dreads. Not a very representative match I'd say tho. That's actually what happened. I got first turn and annihilated most of the Iron Warrior armor support with las-fire while the Redemptors just waffled shots and killed a couple chaos space marines. Due to the amount of firepower that came next turn I didn't even risk sending out Slamguinius out of fear he'd just get popped by havocs. Although even when anti-tank fire was directed at the Repulsors, they proved themselves pretty damn tanky. Multiple shots from lascannons, some lucky 6+ saves led to all of them staying at around 7 wounds despite multiple fusillades of havoc fire. The stubbers are also surprisingly quite useful, and combining fire with all three basically turns them into an extra onslaught. They're pretty damn good tanks when it comes to being multi-purpose lawnmowers. Certainly better than a Land Raider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 From what I've seen of Primaris, the name of the game is redundancy. With more expected points breaks to come in CA this will only be more of the case. Bringing a redemptor? Bring 2, and some other tough armour to keep them all safe. Bring all intercessors if you are bringing any, then your opponents 2D weapons start to be less focused. Using Reivers? 2 squads minimum and flood a side of the board with terror tactics. Hellblasters? ...You get the idea. Go big or go home, overlay your buffs and use those 2W to your advantage. Also never forget the 2A base. On the subject of the Redemptor too, it's a firebase - pure and simple. Fist is there if something gets close, like a Knight or a deep striking unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 if you go over to the BA forum, neonmole has had huge success with a pure Primaris force that has the following: - Primaris Captain (WL artisan of war) - Primaris Lt - Smash Captain (hammer of baal) - 5 Intercessors - 5 Intercessors - 5 Intercessors - Redemptor Dreadnought (heavy onslaught) - Redemptor Dreadnought (heavy onslaught) - Repulsor (lascannon loadout) - Repulsor (lascannon loadout) - Repulsor (lascannon loadout) He placed very well in multiple tournaments, the last of which he got 9th out of 120 people! so pure primaris can work if you know what you're doing with them. (technically the smash captain isn't pure primaris of course, but its a single character) I just tried this list out, and while the repulsors were some real heavy hitters (and I should have been more aggressive with them), all I can say regarding the Redemptors is that they just suck. The lack of a machine spirit equivalent rule results in them always shooting at a 4+ when moving, and just gimps their ability to knock out enemy guns before they can shoot back. Which is only worsened by how the Redemptors degrade pretty quickly and don't have that many wounds either. IMO the Redemptors would be better swapped out with Aggressors, Inceptors, or just taking more non-primaris units. Although what maps did he play on anyway? Terrain probably effects the durability of Redemptors greatly. A 4+ isn't bad. I just dont think you are use to it. Also, I've found if you take the double onslaught variant it increases your chances in the shooting phase. I also take the Redemptors because of its access to strength 14 in combat. If they are shooting a 200 point model and not the 320+ ones you are in a better spot. Utilizing that 8" move plus reliably smashing tanks and the like is really strong. I've also found that if you perform the Howl's moving castle tactic they make great counter assaults as well as gaining the ability of re-rolling 1s from your captain & lieutenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Fist is there if something gets close, like a Knight or a deep striking unit. Which is often the case if you claim the middle of the board for yourself to be fair. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.