71 replies to this topic

[Panzer]

I can't wait to try out a Missile Pod Commander again. Most of the time I can't really move as much with my Coldstar as I'd like to due it being my Warlord. At 15p they might not feel like overcosted crap anymore lol.

In any case my Coldstar will be happy since I've build him as HO BC, MP, Shield Gen, other SS back in 7th without magnetizing him so he'll be 19p cheaper with ATS.

[Jud Cottrell]

Yep, sit him in the middle of your gunline, blaze away at range, give him the Puretide Engram Neurochip to farm CP’s and even call
A cheeky Kauyon!

[Triszin]

wow, that discount on broadsides is pretty big. like substantial

[MajorNese]

Yay, missile pod got changed. That's considerable for my stuff - all the gorgeous FW flyers have 2 of those previously-overpriced pods. Piranhas, skyray, devilfish, all cheaper - mech tau incoming!!!

 

€dit:

After watching a youtube review, it seems like -1 armies are unchanged. Even the turn 1 deep strike limitations didn't make it into the book, so all that's different from the codices is that the infiltration strats became limited.

Edited by MajorNese, 08 December 2018 - 11:54 AM.

[Bryan Blaire]

I don't believe we've seen things that are handled by FAQ/Errata make their way into the Chapter Approved books. I don't really understand why people expected them. Chapter Approved is for points changes, new play rules, etc., not FAQs/Erratas.

[brother_b]

I don't believe we've seen things that are handled by FAQ/Errata make their way into the Chapter Approved books. I don't really understand why people expected them. Chapter Approved is for points changes, new play rules, etc., not FAQs/Erratas.

Been my thinking exactly. I'm very interested to see how this Ganges my mini army as we previously used PL for ease but are considering points so we can take advantage of the new prices.

[Triszin]

whats everyones thoughts ont he 8?

 

8-Ri no hīrō (The Eight)

Tags : chapter approved warhammer 40 000

Hello again !!

Second review of the day with "The Eight" it's a 8 man commander detachment included in the CA 2018.

The Eight are the greatest champions of the Farsights Enclaves, led by non other than Commander Farsight himself.
The Eight take to the battlefield as one, a band of fearless warriors piloting some of the most powerful Battle suits the T'au have ever created.

This is a formation of 8 suits (farsight, 6 crisis commander, 1 Broadside, 1 riptide) + 14 drones

Heroes of the enclaves

To me it's the most interesting part of the formation, each one of there is a hero with some cool background. Being able to play a Gundam cast is such a cool idea ! even if i never really like the T'au i want to try this one !

Using the Eigth in battle

-Must use a Super Heavy Auxiliary with -3Cp and no extra signature system.
-Farsight must be commander and get "Hero of the enclave" trait (heroic intervention with 6" range and reroll attck on charge/charge/HI)
-You get 8 models and 14 drones for a bit more than 1100 pts !
-Master of War rule with "Farsight Enclaves" (you can use Kauyon one extra time per battle)
-Sept Tenet : Reroll wound roll of 1 for ranged attack within 6" of the target.
- Savior Protocol : drones can take a wound instead of target (2+)
-Crisis sized suits can Manta strike.

Profiles

1) Farsight : Unchanged from T'Au dex.
2) Brigtsword: Commander equiped with a dual metal that can be used as a melee weapon. -2 distance to charge him
3) Bravestorm : got a 2+/4++ and a 6+fnp
4) Sha'vastos : the one with the puretide chip (one reroll per battle & free CP on a 6+)
5) Arra'Kon : Inflict mortal wound when charged.
6) Torchstar : No Deepstrike bubble (12") and -1 to hit her with ranged attack.
7) Ob Lotai : Reduce dmg taken by one and ignore malus to move and shoot with Heavy weapon.
8) O'Vesa : Normal riptide with ws 6+ (earth cast noob^^) + reroll 1 to shoot and 4+ to avoid MW on nova reactor.

Conclusion

Look like a fun detachement but i am not sure it's going to be effective on the table. I am not sure there is enough shooting for the price but i hope i am wrong !

My only rant could be the display of the rules everything is cramed on 3 pages it's hard to ingest !

/Cheers.
Bob.

Next stop Renegade Knight !

Edited by Triszin, 09 December 2018 - 05:29 PM.

[Panzer]

As expected more of a fluffy thing to take but the mixed weapon loadouts really breaks it. None of them are efficient and it doesn't seem like they have any special rules that make them worth taking over a regular Commander. In competetive games you're better off taking 3 Commander in different detachments but who can actually do their job. I will still build myself The Eight eventually because they are cool but I definitely won't rush it based on these rules. 

[Trevak Dal]

Told you she (Torchstar) was a Commander Panzer, I think she was a rank more than a shasvre and a rank less than a shasel though they always used a random crisis model to rep her. I think they made up their loadouts at random. Arra'kon should have a High Output burst cannon for his anti infantry duties but oh well.

I wish they had ability bubbles that only affected The Eight so you could get some Avengers power sharing abilities.

Edited by Trevak Dal, 10 December 2018 - 10:12 AM.

[Panzer]

I wasn't doubting them being Commanders in fluff.

Also I doubt the loadouts are made up randomly. The way they have always been described it makes sense for them have all these different loadouts and those are the exact same weapons the fluff always said they have. It's just that the fluff descriptions don't work on the board.

In the fluff Crisis pretty much never miss their targets or have enough shots to just overwhelm their targets. Each Fusion Blaster shot in fluff is devastating and wrecks tanks. Single Burst Cannons wreck whole units of Guardsmen. However we know how it looks in reality and it's very different there unfortunately. On the board they still hit basically all their shots since they are Commanders with BS2+ but hitting is not even half the roles that have to happen. Often such low amount of shots just can't get through the hit rolls followed by wound rolls followed by saving throws followed by rolling the amount of damage (in case of Fusion Blaster). To compensate T'au player soon learned to take multiples of the same weapon on Crisis instead of a mixed one, something that's just not needed in the fluff.

 

Enough ranting about that tho. It's part of the core rules and the only way GW could have circumvented those things would've been to give them all more powerful versions of those weapons (everyone with ATS, weapons with more strenght, more shots and so on) and that's certainly not something I was expecting anyway.

[Triszin]

how much would it cost to take all of these separately?

[Panzer]

Should be about the same. I'll be able to check to make sure in a few hours.

[Happy-inquisitor]

how much would it cost to take all of these separately?

 

I tried to add that up with the new points costs and it came out at 1268. Apologies if I misremembered any of the current points but that is going to be in the right ballpark. It would have been much more pre-CA, maybe even as much as the really silly price they were in 7th.

 

Curiously if you cost this up with all the XV8 commanders as the same points as crisis bodyguards (30) it comes out really close to the points they give for the whole lot. So they have terrible weapons as commanders but if you think of them as bodyguards with iffy weapons but great stats it feels less bad taking them.

 

A cost-alike-bodyguard with a BS2+ plasma is almost as good as normal bodyguard with 2 plasma. Then you get a flamer and a shield generator. Still weird but is it *awful* for those points, no in my opinion it is not. Same goes for Brightsword, only having 2 Fusion Blasters is kinda frustrating but for around the points cost of a bodyguard he gets BS2+/WS3+ with more attacks, more wounds and the all-important character keyword. Torchstar is a tricky sell but as a drone controller caddy and perpetual user of Command and Control Node maybe you are at least wasting fewer points on expensive weapons.

 

O'Vesa is fine. Ob'lotoi is fantastic. Farsight is himself and at his new points cost is fine. None of those need a discount and Ob'lotai is IMO an utter bargain.

 

All those characters, all those special rules and all those teeny tiny drone units. I think they are designed to make the most out of the character keyword and MSU durability. The pretty much need either a Brigade or 2 Battalions in support to generate some CP so MSU should be easy to build on. The damage output will always be a bit modest due to the oddball weapon choices but durability should be pretty good. 

 

i think it will be really tricky to play, all those strange special rules which you need to make the most of. I intend to give it a go and see how it fares in semi-casual games and small tournaments. It should be a blast. With a weird list like this it is important to remember that it is even harder for most opponents to work out what it is doing than it is for you to remember what it does - if we do the usual internet thing of analysing as if every opponent makes the perfect counter it is deeply unrealistic for something like this.

[Waking Dreamer]

Finally, we should have gotten this with our Codex! It's a shame that it costs you 3CP to bring these onto the table though. When you have legendary leaders / Commanders all gathered into the one battle you'd think you'd get more tactical prowess / inspiration for the rest of your army right? It would have been nice to gain CPs from The Eight, not pay them.

 

Anyways some cool little bonus rules for the units, and since Ive built these models and magnetised the weapons for their specific loadouts (already converted Fusion Blades and Onager Fist) so i'll post my complete The Eight soon!

Edited by Waking Dreamer, 10 December 2018 - 11:56 PM.

[Trevak Dal]

I had them built but when they didn't have them in the codex I disassembled and reclaimed the parts and added them to the pool of normal crisis suits (taking me to 32 + Farsight and 2 commanders and shadowsun)

[Marshlands]

Another way to look at it - what will it cost in CA 2018 for farsight, a broadside, a riptide and all the drones. All of these things are good anyway, with additional buffs and whatever's left you pay for the other 5 guys which seems like pretty decent value

I think the big surprise will be that they won't totally suck in melee, against non melee armies like guard or eldar

Edited by Marshlands, 12 December 2018 - 12:31 AM.

[Happy-inquisitor]

Another way to look at it - what will it cost in CA 2018 for farsight, a broadside, a riptide and all the drones. All of these things are good anyway, with additional buffs and whatever's left you pay for the other 5 guys which seems like pretty decent value

I think the big surprise will be that they won't totally suck in melee, against non melee armies like guard or eldar

 

If we assume that Farsight, O'Vesa and Ob'lotai along with all the drones are at fair points for what they do then you are looking at 395 points for the remaining 5 commanders. That is averaging slightly less than 80 points each.

[Panzer]

Alright, so I did the math (Drones included).

Before CA The Eight would have cost you 1356p

After CA The Eight would cost you 1228p if done by hand.

 

So I don't know exactly how much they cost except for "a bit more than 1100p", however it seems like you are saving points by taking them as single LoW choice. You also get a bunch of other bonuses you wouldn't be able to get regularly this way.

• Brightsword: gets two relics for free. The Fusion Blades and the Sa'cea Grav-inhibitor Field one.
• Bravestorm: gets a relic for free (Onager Gauntlet) and a 6+ FnP.
• Sha'vastos: gets a relic for free (PEN)
• Arra'Kon: sounds like he has the effect of the Repulsor Impact Field Stratagem permanently active for himself?
• Torchstar: anti-deep strike bubble of 12" and  -1 to-hit against shooting attacks (which is quite nice for someone who will be this close to the enemy most of the time)
• Ob'Lotai: a second support system (Target Lock + Velocity Tracker. I didn't include the Target Lock in the calculation above since it's the bonus he gets)
• O'Vesa: re-rolling 1s to shoot and 4+ FnP against MW from his Nova Reactor

Or in short, 4 free relics and a bunch of useful special rules.

[Triszin]

Alright, so I did the math (Drones included).

Before CA The Eight would have cost you 1356p

After CA The Eight would cost you 1228p if done by hand.

 

So I don't know exactly how much they cost except for "a bit more than 1100p", however it seems like you are saving points by taking them as single LoW choice. You also get a bunch of other bonuses you wouldn't be able to get regularly this way.

• Brightsword: gets two relics for free. The Fusion Blades and the Sa'cea Grav-inhibitor Field one.
• Bravestorm: gets a relic for free (Onager Gauntlet) and a 6+ FnP.
• Sha'vastos: gets a relic for free (PEN)
• Arra'Kon: sounds like he has the effect of the Repulsor Impact Field Stratagem permanently active for himself?
• Torchstar: anti-deep strike bubble of 12" and  -1 to-hit against shooting attacks (which is quite nice for someone who will be this close to the enemy most of the time)
• Ob'Lotai: a second support system (Target Lock + Velocity Tracker. I didn't include the Target Lock in the calculation above since it's the bonus he gets)
• O'Vesa: re-rolling 1s to shoot and 4+ FnP against MW from his Nova Reactor

Or in short, 4 free relics and a bunch of useful special rules.

cost is 1120 pts.

[Panzer]

 

Alright, so I did the math (Drones included).

Before CA The Eight would have cost you 1356p

After CA The Eight would cost you 1228p if done by hand.

 

So I don't know exactly how much they cost except for "a bit more than 1100p", however it seems like you are saving points by taking them as single LoW choice. You also get a bunch of other bonuses you wouldn't be able to get regularly this way.

• Brightsword: gets two relics for free. The Fusion Blades and the Sa'cea Grav-inhibitor Field one.
• Bravestorm: gets a relic for free (Onager Gauntlet) and a 6+ FnP.
• Sha'vastos: gets a relic for free (PEN)
• Arra'Kon: sounds like he has the effect of the Repulsor Impact Field Stratagem permanently active for himself?
• Torchstar: anti-deep strike bubble of 12" and  -1 to-hit against shooting attacks (which is quite nice for someone who will be this close to the enemy most of the time)
• Ob'Lotai: a second support system (Target Lock + Velocity Tracker. I didn't include the Target Lock in the calculation above since it's the bonus he gets)
• O'Vesa: re-rolling 1s to shoot and 4+ FnP against MW from his Nova Reactor

Or in short, 4 free relics and a bunch of useful special rules.

cost is 1120 pts.

 

 

So you save 108 points and get a bunch of extras but lose 3CP (which, to be fair, would've been gone to the relics anyway). Seems fair to me. Now if their loadouts were just better.

[Happy-inquisitor]

 

 

 

So you save 108 points and get a bunch of extras but lose 3CP (which, to be fair, would've been gone to the relics anyway). Seems fair to me. Now if their loadouts were just better.

 

 

I really think it comes down to how much you want to play a bunch of monat crisis suits running around doing stuff. That style is no longer possible in 8th except by taking The Eight.

 

If you want to play a more conventional T'au army with massed broadsides/riptides then they are going to look awful to you!

 

So as for the points costs I worked out that if you think the drones along with Farsight, O'Vesa and Ob'lotai[1] are legit at normal cost then the whole set of commanders cost 395 points between them. So really you are looking at paying points as if they were regular crisis monats with a bit of a points premium for the character keyword and the commander statline - viewed as slightly expensive crisis monats I think their loadouts look a lot better. A lot of the reaction, including my initial reaction until I did some more analysis, was coloured by thinking of them as commanders which are a premium model in short supply and which therefore we would never use such weak and wasteful loadouts on. 

 

For 395 points you get offensive capability of ;

4 flamers

3 plasma rifles

2 fusion blasters (fusion blades)

1 CIB

1 AFP

Onager Gauntlet

That all comes with BS 2+ and WS 3+ so its actual output is a lot better than it would be on equivalent Crisis Suits, not quite twice as good but nearly so when we allow for prevalent -1 to hit penalties in the game. 

 

Defensively they all have character keyword and there are 26 wounds mostly with T5/3+ but with some 4++ and of course one model with 2+/4++. 

 

If they all had optimal weapon loads then this would be broken as heck, even if we had no points discount it would still be a return to Commander Spam which was justifiably hated by all non-Tau players. I think GW erred on the side of caution with this, they know the weapon mix is going to be hard to make much use of and some of the support system choices are poor (I am looking at you Brightsword) so they gave the whole thing a points discount. Personally I would rather take on the challenge of a difficult to play unit that is widely regarded as just for fluff - if I do win with it I will feel like I really earned the win and nobody is going to flip the tables like they would if I just brought a Ta'unar.

 

[1] Ob'lotai is a steal. Really a bargain when you consider how valuable the Character keyword is on a Broadside; if nothing else consider how many shield drones you do not need because nobody can shoot at it. Add in that it reduces all damage by 1 to a minimum of 1 as well and you have a very tanky Broadside who will keep firing all the missiles all game unless your opponent is determined and resourceful in stopping it.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

 

So you save 108 points and get a bunch of extras but lose 3CP (which, to be fair, would've been gone to the relics anyway). Seems fair to me. Now if their loadouts were just better.

 

 

I really think it comes down to how much you want to play a bunch of monat crisis suits running around doing stuff. That style is no longer possible in 8th except by taking The Eight.

 

If you want to play a more conventional T'au army with massed broadsides/riptides then they are going to look awful to you!

 

So as for the points costs I worked out that if you think the drones along with Farsight, O'Vesa and Ob'lotai[1] are legit at normal cost then the whole set of commanders cost 395 points between them. So really you are looking at paying points as if they were regular crisis monats with a bit of a points premium for the character keyword and the commander statline - viewed as slightly expensive crisis monats I think their loadouts look a lot better. A lot of the reaction, including my initial reaction until I did some more analysis, was coloured by thinking of them as commanders which are a premium model in short supply and which therefore we would never use such weak and wasteful loadouts on. 

 

For 395 points you get offensive capability of ;

4 flamers

3 plasma rifles

2 fusion blasters (fusion blades)

1 CIB

1 AFP

Onager Gauntlet

That all comes with BS 2+ and WS 3+ so its actual output is a lot better than it would be on equivalent Crisis Suits, not quite twice as good but nearly so when we allow for prevalent -1 to hit penalties in the game. 

 

Defensively they all have character keyword and there are 26 wounds mostly with T5/3+ but with some 4++ and of course one model with 2+/4++. 

 

If they all had optimal weapon loads then this would be broken as heck, even if we had no points discount it would still be a return to Commander Spam which was justifiably hated by all non-Tau players. I think GW erred on the side of caution with this, they know the weapon mix is going to be hard to make much use of and some of the support system choices are poor (I am looking at you Brightsword) so they gave the whole thing a points discount. Personally I would rather take on the challenge of a difficult to play unit that is widely regarded as just for fluff - if I do win with it I will feel like I really earned the win and nobody is going to flip the tables like they would if I just brought a Ta'unar.

 

[1] Ob'lotai is a steal. Really a bargain when you consider how valuable the Character keyword is on a Broadside; if nothing else consider how many shield drones you do not need because nobody can shoot at it. Add in that it reduces all damage by 1 to a minimum of 1 as well and you have a very tanky Broadside who will keep firing all the missiles all game unless your opponent is determined and resourceful in stopping it.

 

 

Yeah I already said it seems fair lol

Also I think thinking of them as expensive but better Crisis instead of Commander is kinda silly because that's exactly what Commanders are.

[Marshlands]

It seems like good value for poor optimisation.

I think the key factor is how it plays, with the undetermined variables being the MSU, the slight melee potential and mass character rule.

It's almost about what you take with them... maybe with lots of kroot, kroot hounds, shield and gun drones and generally lots of fast moving chaff they could be artists on the table that are really hard to deal with.

[Panzer]

Don't take Kroots if you care about having a strong list. Damn that hurts to say but it's the truth. Just take Firewarrior or more Drones instead. Cheaper and do more for their points. ^^

Something else that's interesting here is that you have half of your army that's more or less independent of Markerlights. The Drones are Drones and will die quickly to protect the characters anyway. The Commanders all have BS2+. The Riptide already can re-roll 1s on its own. That leaves the Broadside who would love to have some Markerlight support, tho even that one gets +1 to-hit against targets with FLY keyword so there's that.

Just invest another 380p in Firewarrior with a Markerlight on each Shas'ui and you'll have a lot of ObSec mass, some more Markerlights and lots of screen (50 models) for your characters. Then you still have 500p left to spend in a 2k list lol

[Happy-inquisitor]

Don't take Kroots if you care about having a strong list. Damn that hurts to say but it's the truth. Just take Firewarrior or more Drones instead. Cheaper and do more for their points. ^^

Something else that's interesting here is that you have half of your army that's more or less independent of Markerlights. The Drones are Drones and will die quickly to protect the characters anyway. The Commanders all have BS2+. The Riptide already can re-roll 1s on its own. That leaves the Broadside who would love to have some Markerlight support, tho even that one gets +1 to-hit against targets with FLY keyword so there's that.

Just invest another 380p in Firewarrior with a Markerlight on each Shas'ui and you'll have a lot of ObSec mass, some more Markerlights and lots of screen (50 models) for your characters. Then you still have 500p left to spend in a 2k list lol

 

I sadly concur, you take kroot for utility not for damage output and  any list with The Eight is already short on raw damage output. You need to be filling out the list with things which will both generate CP and dish out damage - so Fire Warriors and Cadre Fireblades. Any other serious firepower may as well be on Commanders, you can either leverage the character keyword to win or you are pretty much getting trashed anyway.