Warhammer stores

[Scammel]

GW stores are rarely where I do my actual hobby shopping these days. They are at least a semi-reliable way of getting casual evening events and I'll usually pick up something small as a token of appreciation for the manager. They're not designed for me and I'm fine with that - they're there to hook in young players with colourful shelves and provide an easy gift-buying experience for confused relatives.

 

Re: The pushiness - the training has been borked for at least a decade now and it's supremely telling that GW employees often have this reputation even outside hobbyist circles. There needs to be far greater emphasis on marrying product knowledge with the ability to read customers; GW stores are absolutely at their best when the aforementioned confused aunt can be shepherded towards a box of Tactical Marines, or gently upsold to a Start Collecting box. If I made a beeline for the latest Heresy novel and I currently have it in my hand, it doesn't take a savant to recognise I might not be interested in First Strike.

[RobWrath]

My local is fine, Cardiff City centre. They have loads of stock and seem to run loads of events.

BUT they are pretty insistent with the sales pitches ('why don't you buy these Death Guard starter sets'? 'err, no thanks') and yes, it totally smells of bo.

But I find that quite nostalgic.

[Harrowmaster]

We've only got two shops in the country (one Warhammer and one plain GW). I'm near the GW one, it's quite large, with 2 gaming tables and two introductory ones and a display. It has a decent amount of stock (even has a small section for webstore exlcusives) and 4-6 staff with 4 on at the busiest days, so it's not too bad. As for pushiness I find it depends on the staff member in question, some just say hello, others interrogate you but overall it's pretty decent.

[Burni]

I've never had an issue with being pestered by staff. They ask if they can help I usually answer with a 'I know what I'm doing' style answer i.e.: "I just need to grab some more leadbelcher for my House Taranis detachment" or something like that. They tend to either leave you alone then or at least have a conversation about something you might be interested in.

 

Or sometimes I've got my headphones on and just stride around purposefully - They leave me alone then.

 

That's my experience anyway.

[D3L]

Definitely taking the Ron Swanson approach helps

 

"Can I help you?"

"I know more than you, son"

[Charlo]

So i've have experiences of two stores over the years - spend a lot of time in one growing up and it was pretty big, lots of tables and a fair few staff. Then more recently another that is much smaller and put me off going to GW stores. The manager does a great job for a 1-man operation but you tend to find a much younger audience in GW and I prefer my London club with a bar and no discernible au-de-nerd ;)

 

As others have said though, most stores are a Gateway drug. The first hit.

[RobWrath]

 I prefer my London club with a bar and no discernible au-de-nerd

 

 

Tell me more about this! Sounds amazing.

Mind you, I'm not in London.

[N1SB]

Hi, great question. I worked in finance and marketing, but I don't fetishise business and I avoid jargon. I've been looking at GW's financial figures in their annual reports to their investors (also they use the same numbers for tax purposes, so it's not like a total lie) in the same way I would points cost in an army Codex. Really puts stuff into perspective, for things like:

Why are they so rubbish?

Because to GW Warhammer Stores are an insanely costly cost, so having to invest more into them can be hard to justify...but it's also a Catch-22 because it is a major driver of their business, almost like Apple Stores to Apple. As in I agree with you guys Warhammer Stores are worth investing in, but I can feel GW's pain. So I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong, but that I understand both sides.

+++ Before we begin... +++

Let me just say I agree with everything you guys said, particularly:

1. Warhammer Stores are basically the main form of advertising for The Hobby

2. There's only so much the one man in these one-man stores can physically do

3. Just personally I always trust a retail guy, like Brother DBadger here, more than any consultant or analyst, because they have direct contact with actual customers

+++ So back to the question +++

I made this graph a few months back but it's pretty consistent for GW over the past decade. "Retail" are Warhammer Stores:

So here, we're looking at sheer costs in relation to their own business. Warhammer Stores are 53% or more than half of GW's annual costs. That's insane for a manufacturer and closer to what an actual retail company's expenses are. Everyone here understands GW has a unique business model (and that's what makes The Hobby so great), but GW doesn't define itself as a retail company, it's a miniatures maker. You guys can see why it's kinda counter-intuitive, right? As a fan I see the value, but if I was on the other side, whoa.

A even more telling way to look at it is on its own, judge it by its own merits, do Warhammer Stores make their cost back? Like imagine GW as an army, and their Retail is a unit or multiple units, do they make their points back i.e. kill more points' worth of enemies than they themselves cost? It turns out, until 2.5 years ago, when Age of Sigmar relaunched with the General's Handbook and that worldwide Season of War event, Warhammer Stores ALWAYS lost money. That year, Warhammer Stores finally broke even. And the most recent year, after the launch of 40k 8th ed, Warhammer Stores finally turned a profit.

To conclude on this simple 1st glance look, Warhammer Stores are a huge expense and don't make their costs back until GW's recent surge, so I can see it's hard to justify investing more in them. Now, I know that's not an end-all/be-all; a legal department in a company are a huge expense and don't generate revenue, that doesn't mean you get rid of them. It's like how I use Nurglings, they're NOT SUPPOSED to make their points' worth back by killing, I use them as objective takers and tar pits, and I love them for my Chaos lists. In Warhammer Stores' case, they're also GW's main advertising arm, so let's take a look at that.

+++ How much is that advertising component worth? +++

This is the part that's really interesting to me and I hope I can explain it well, because it's kinda intuitive, but hard to describe.

Warhammer Store's function as BOTH a point of sales AND advertising. So, let's see if we can isolate those 2 components and judge just the advertising component.

There's 3 main venues to buy GW stuff: Warhammer Stores, FLGS or Online. GW calls them: Retail, Trade and Online respectively. It turns out revenue breaks down to a ratio of about Retail 40%, Trade 40%, Online 20%. Well, the costs for managing Trade and Online match up to their sales in that Trade's revenue is about double that of Online's and so are their costs, 13% to 6% respectively. But considering Warhammer Stores/Retail are 53% of costs, it seems a bit high. To organise these points more clearly.

- Retail/Warhammer Stores make up about 40% of sales, but are 53% of GW's costs

- Trade/FLGS make up about 40% of sales, but make up 13% of GW's costs

- Online makes up about 20% of sales, but make up only 6% of GW's costs

You can see the disparity, right? Warhammer Stores make as much money as FLGS, but to GW, it's 53% vs. only 13% of their costs. So let's say you justify the rest of those costs as the Warhammer Stores' advertising function, 53% - 13% = 40%. It's kinda like saying 40% of GW's budget is just for THIS sort of advertising (before considering things like Warhammer Community and Duncan's/Peachy's videos).

Is 40% for advertising high? In a word, yes, I definitely think so. In many industries, a marketing budget that's more than a quarter of their overall budget is really high, that's usually for what we call FMCG, basically consumer goods you see in ads everyday. Just a figure off the top of my head, a triple AAA video game's advertising used to be about 10% to 15% of its budget...but slowly moving higher as they're going more mainstream I think, and GW's already sitting at 40% for a niche product.

+++ None of this is bashing GW or Warhammer Stores +++

I love my Warhammer Store. We got a good meta, we have an insanely great store manager, and we even use it to play the 40k RPG Wrath & Glory. GW invests a disproportionate amount into Warhammer Stores and this topic just renewed my appreciating for my local one.

But I can appreciate it as a Hobbyist and still look at it from GW's perspective and see the pain. That's all I present here, a point of view based on financial data, because this is how GW has to make its decisions as a responsible business.

+++ Is GW working on improving Warhammer Stores? +++

In broad terms, I think so, yeah. We just got the 500th store, I know because I actually had to paint stuff for their 500th Store Event display. They're also creating things like Warhammer Cafes, etc. But on the same point, they got 500 stores to look after now, so it's harder for each to even get attention.

And I really like Brother DBadger's points, as I always do from people that worked in retail (because I never did, so I always ask them for real advice). Like with his concessions idea. Big box bookstores, your Waterstones or Barnes & Noble, are unable to compete against Amazon and are closing down. They probably would appreciate something like GW attracting business to their stores, split the rent a bit. Parents who want to read could drop off their kids in the Warhammer part, or conversely, parents who want to play Warhammer could drop off their kids in the children's books section. It's honestly a great idea in the face of the coming current Retailpocalypse.

I also have my own ideas, but I don't wanna armchair-CEO, because I honestly really like their current CEO and top marketing guy, it's a really hard gig, man. And I end with this...

Games Workshop started in 1975 with 1 store. Warhammer Stores are still kinda following that model. It's been 40+ years. It's worth taking a hard look at this, since it looks like the costs for this are ever-increasing. Maybe it shouldn't be changed, what's old is new again and nostalgia and stuff, but srsly Rick Priestly invented the deodorant stick grav-tank back in the '80s regarding the smell issue, surely we can innovate on that! Or bring that back!

[Gederas]

RE: The Pushiness:

I've never had that issue. Like, I've had more issues with that in other places than a Warhammer store. Then again, both the store manager and his on-calls both know me and know that I know my stuff. Only times I've ever gotten the sales pitch is actually when I specifically ASKED for their opinion on something. Iirc, it was if I should get a second Plagueburst Crawler for my Death Guard or a Maulerfiend for my World Eaters. (they said Maulerfiend, surprisingly the less expensive option :lol:)

 

 

I prefer my London club with a bar and no discernible au-de-nerd

Does your club in London wash the place every night or something? :lol:
 

[RikuEru]

Wow, definitely doesn't sound like the Stores I know.

 

Cologne (1) is in a pretty old house, to the back of the high street shopping alley.

It is indeed quite small - and L-shaped which makes it even worse probably.

But with LotR vanishing from the shelves, shelf space for 40k/AoS is better than ever (and never was insufficient).

They also have 2 gaming and a painting table - and there are always a handful of people present.

Staff wise I think they have 3 or 4 people, so atleast 2 are always present.

 

Cologne 2 used to exist.

It was in a brand new Mall. Top spot. Newly built, well-sized Store. But large rent aswell.

While we never learned the full reasons for it closing not long after opening, I just know that the shop manager was just someone who presents and sells his goods - not someone who actually cares for the hobby and Community - and that many friends liked the more 'cozy', tho smaller, more passionate Store in the Inner City better.

 

 

The Warhammer Store in Bonn, which is the one I frequent every week or two (mostly for paints or the event exclusive models, etc.), is a magnificent shop all around!

The Manager, Ben, is a really great guy, who does everything to promote little campaigns and tourneys for all Game Systems. He is always forthcoming and helpful, he rings up GW HQ, if there is an issue or so. He helps out when it comes to pre-ordering limited stuff or event exclusive things, even if you can't make it in on a Saturday.

He isn't pushy at all. Of course he knows what we regular customers collect and like, but generally he only recommends ypu something if you are relly indecisive and talk about it.

I know that he DOES have to sell, so the store can do well, but he's someone close to the Hobby. He knows the current 'meta' and who to recommend it too.

He knows I mostly build and convert, paint and only rarely play. So he helps me brainstorm conversion ideas and find options/bits I hadn't thought of yet.

And on more than one occasion he actually told me NOT to buy something and instead focus on my current/latest project first.

 

 

That way he has built a pretty Loyal Customer Base, from the young teens who sit in the store to paint their first army to the diehard fans who just come in to have a chat, get some supplies and take a break from painting their Titans or Golden Demon entries. There's always someone in the store, without it being overcrowded.

 

The Store itself has a well-lit room for 2 large gaming tables, a large painting table and a table for Introduction Games or where he can present the newest Boxed Games. Air is always very well ventilated, even on eventful Saturdays when the Store is packed with two dozen or more people.

Stock is always quite well, except for the odd missing unit here and there now and then, when one of the tourney-gamers bought 3 or so boxes of it.

[Noteworthy tho: By now they have to organize many of the 40k Boxes with the small side to the front, due to the larger range of armies and models]

 

Normally it's open Tuesday to Saturday (We don't have open stores on Sunday in Germany, except for Special Days), but 'now' from End of November to the Start of January the Store is open Monday to Saturday. (Which is something they did the last few years too, leading up to Christmas)

Until recently the Store only had the manager and his Assistant, but as far as I know they are currently hiring a third.

 

 

 

Special Shout-Out to awesome Christie, who manages the Warhammer Store in Mönchengladbach.

She made her little store into a cozy hobby centre and has probably become a secondary Mom to many regulars.

(Also: She used to be a Roadie for the Red Hot Chili Peppers - which many expected to be on the 500 Facts list :D)

[Halandaar]

I almost never buy in-store anymore, whether that's Warhammer/GW stores or my local stockist, because none of them ever seem to have what I want when I go in. Even if I go with backup options, they tend not to have those either.

 

I understand the range is massive and they can't possibly stock everything, but it doesn't seem to matter whether i'm looking for new products, older ones or even basic things like paint, the amount of times I come away empty handed is ridiculous.

 

And the staff are always very helpful and offer to order stuff in, but if i'm going to wait for a few days anyway, I might as well order from third party online store, save myself 25% and get it delivered straight to work.

[shandwen]

When it comes to management policy, GW is rather lax with it's people. I've heard so many people bashing gw for being anti-fw, or people speaking to the bo found in many stores, but that is all left to the manager of the store.

[Axineton]

Ah the pushiness also does my head in. I only really go in there if I need something that day so usually have an idea what I want but when they start talking to me I completely forget what I went in for! That’s caught me out a few times so I’ve taken to writing out lists on a bit of paper now

[MARK0SIAN]

I always suggest to the manager at my local one that she makes all the AoS stuff order only so there’d be more room to stock a wider range of 40k stuff :)

 

I actually prefer going into a GW store if there’s a match on or something as the staff are generally too involved in that to bother with the hard sell on stuff. That said, I do think they do a good job of introducing new players to the game which is nice to see.

 

Stick is an issue though, it’s gotten to the point where even though I live quite close I always call ahead to see if they’ve actually got something in stock that I want, even paint.

[Rik Lightstar]

Want to stop the pushy sales?

 

Take a model you're proud of, show it to them and ask for tips. Assuming your ego can handle some light criticism. These guys are almost always hobbyists and can be easily distracted by shiny things and the chance to exhibit their credibility.

 

Once you've chatted about your model, take what they've said on board and let them know you're going to have a look around. Done.

 

And for those of you who think their local GW staff won't be able to teach you anything, give them a chance to surprise you.

 

Rik

[Panzer]

Want to stop the pushy sales?

 

Take a model you're proud of, show it to them and ask for tips. Assuming your ego can handle some light criticism. These guys are almost always hobbyists and can be easily distracted by shiny things and the chance to exhibit their credibility.

 

Once you've chatted about your model, take what they've said on board and let them know you're going to have a look around. Done.

 

And for those of you who think their local GW staff won't be able to teach you anything, give them a chance to surprise you.

 

Rik

 

If there's something I want even less than pushy sales when going in to buy something it is to chat about my models paintjob lol

[Rik Lightstar]

If not interacting with humans at all is the goal then maybe online purchases are the way forward.

 

We have to accept that for GW Retail Staff, it is very much literally what they get paid for to come over and try to help you get the purchase you want, and maybe a few extra items. It doesn't annoy me any more than a waiter/waitress asking if everything is ok with the meal. It's their job.

 

Also they do have *Mystery Shoppers* who go in and score them on how well they meet the head office expectations.

 

Rik

[Panzer]

I disagree. Other stores manage fine without being pushy. Just because you want to go to a store and to watch at the actual products it shouldn't be necessary to heavily interact with the employees.

But maybe you don't understand what is meant with "pushy"? If they ask and you say it's fine and they leave it at that then they aren't pushy.

[Slasher956]

Sent my other half to our 'local' GW for some paints... given her a list of the current names and ones which where need or nice but dont worry about  however the sight of a woman entering the shop & the guys attitude of trying to get her to buy other stuff has put her off ever going again!

 

However I've been in a couple of times and when they've tried to upsell me anything I normally go 'you havent got any sisters stuff' which makes them go away

 

the other issue with the place I have is that its a special trip to go there (plus parking) with limited opening hours, meaning I either have to give up a chunk of my saturday if I'm not working or try and get away from work early to get there before they close at 5... no late night opening hours.  I understand that the guy needs his home life as well how ever if its a 30 - 40 min drive plus pay for parking to go GW or same drive in a different direction to an LGS on a saturday when I work 2 out of 4 on top of 5 day weeks....

[RobWrath]

I can walk to mine on my lunchbreak at work, and I've noticed that on my first couple of visits (including with my 7yo) they were pretty pushy. Kind of like they had a 'new gamer alert' warning as they hadn't seen me in there before. Want to buy Dark Imperium, want to buy some scenery.

 

They aren't anywhere near as bad now -I make a point of asking them what they are working on; one of the guys is painting up one of those Nurgle tanks, and I've described my current projects, what I'm into. They are actually quite friendly. But young. Far too young.

[Scammel]

I think it's telling that people have devised tactics to make interactions with staff less painful. Something has been rotten at the heart of GW's retail training for years, this is counterproductive beyond words.

[Mogsam]

Want to stop the pushy sales?

 

Take a model you're proud of, show it to them and ask for tips. Assuming your ego can handle some light criticism. These guys are almost always hobbyists and can be easily distracted by shiny things and the chance to exhibit their credibility.

 

Once you've chatted about your model, take what they've said on board and let them know you're going to have a look around. Done.

 

And for those of you who think their local GW staff won't be able to teach you anything, give them a chance to surprise you.

 

Rik

 

Why should I have to create processes to avoid having to talk to pushy sales people? I usually go into GW to purchase as specific item (usually paint) and then leave. I don't want to talk about the latest fluff, I don't want to talk about Age of Sigmar etc, I literally want to buy my  item that remains economically viable from them directly (paint, spray because of the postage, etc) and go continue with my day as though I'd been in literally any other store. A friend of a friend works at FW and he used to be a GW store manager - he said Hi and said that if you needed him let him know, that's all I want!

[Lord Marshal]

It really depends on the store in my experience. Back in the day, even as a regular, you couldn't not be dive bombed by pushy staff. I think staff who've been there a while - or at least, have worked retail elsewhere - have got better at picking up the cues when somebody's been through the motions before and won't be swayed. 

 

As somebody who's worked retail in the past though, I understand the annoyance of managers - usually regional or head office ones who don't actually do grunt work - who have this bizarre idea that unless you jump down a customer's throat they're not going to buy anything. It's a belief that customer you've not interrogated and all but literally shoved product into their hands is a sale lost, that if you just keep nagging and nagging they'll eventually crack and submit to your demands suggestions.

 

I've also had the fortune of working for two companies who recognise that's more likely to scare them off, and funnily enough, those stores were the ones where we were regularly praised in reviews and in-person about our excellent customer service. Funny that.

 

These days it's not quite as bad in GW stores I think. It still happens a lot of course, usually with the newcomers who're fresh off the boat and probably want to make a good impression. Half the time I might be looking over the newly painted AoS models for example and suddenly somebody appears behind you to talk about how AoS is the best wargame ever and you should totally try it sometime because literally everybody and their mum is getting into it (spoiler, they ain't)

[Rik Lightstar]

 

 

*snip*

 

Why should I have to create processes to avoid having to talk to pushy sales people? I usually go into GW to purchase as specific item (usually paint) and then leave. I don't want to talk about the latest fluff, I don't want to talk about Age of Sigmar etc, I literally want to buy my  item that remains economically viable from them directly (paint, spray because of the postage, etc) and go continue with my day as though I'd been in literally any other store. A friend of a friend works at FW and he used to be a GW store manager - he said Hi and said that if you needed him let him know, that's all I want!

 

 

So,

• Go in,
• Ask for required product, stand by till as they fetch it for you,
• When prompted "would you like XXXX?", say "No" in a clear confident tone,
• Do not engage other human beings in discussions about your mutual hobby,
• Leave store,
• Count the pennies you've saved on postage vs the cost of time and travel.

Seriously, I've never had them be *Pushy* beyond a "No thanks, that's all I need", I've been a manager of a GW store, and I've made a point of going into stores in any town I visit if there's an opportunity.

 

Rik

[RobWrath]

As somebody who's worked retail in the past though, I understand the annoyance of managers - usually regional or head office ones who don't actually do grunt work - who have this bizarre idea that unless you jump down a customer's throat they're not going to buy anything. It's a belief that customer you've not interrogated and all but literally shoved product into their hands is a sale lost, that if you just keep nagging and nagging they'll eventually crack. 

 

It really depends on the store in my experience. Back in the day, even as a regular, you couldn't not be dive bombed by pushy staff.

 

These days it's not quite as bad. It still happens a lot of course. Half the time I might be looking over the newly painted AoS models for example and suddenly somebody appears behind you to talk about how AoS is the best wargame ever and you should totally try it sometime because literally everybody and their mum is getting into it (spoiler, they ain't). I think staff who've been there a while - or at least, have worked retail elsewhere - have got better at picking up the cues when somebody's been through the motions before and won't be swayed. 

I recall the staff in my GW being pushy 20 years ago when I was a teenager (and had no money), so nothing has changed really.

 

Apart from that now I'm a taxpaying adult with some disposable income and at some point I WILL buy things. And also (and if any GW employees are reading this, take note), I can afford to pay the extra £5 or so to buy that big kit from GW rather than online, and if you're nice and polite (and not pushy) with me I might choose to do that so I can walk away from the shop with it in my hand, rather than waiting for it to come through the post.

 

I used to work in retail too and sometimes customers really need some guidance, and they wont ask for it. As soon as you say 'can I help you?' they will tell you what they are after. Left alone they may walk around for 10 minutes and walk out again. But it's a balance between offering help to those that need it and annoying the hell out of people who really are just having a look around.