durdle-durdle Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 When the new codex came out, I heard many of the talking heads on YouTube and podcasts talking about how amazing primaris in deathwatch were. However, since then, I haven’t been able to find many games with them en mass. I see a unit or two taken at the most. I recently was given a bunch of primaris units from dark vengeance, and i’m Planning to paint them as a custom chapter and field them with whatever tactics I like at the time. I was planning on running them as deathwatch, since I already have choppy blood angels, shoots deathwatch seemed cool, but haven’t really seen a primaris deathwatch army. So, i’m Hoping you guys can tell me about your experience with primaris deathwatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 It’s been..... good. Good being relative to what other codexes can do. If you want to be talked into using Primaris, I’d wait til CA is out in 2 weeks. If you want to use Primaris with the best possible rule set, then DW is probably it. I’ve used mostly Primaris with my DW in 8th as I played the heck out of the Vets in 7 th and they are a little old to me now. I have to say my feeling right now is there is almost no point on playing Primaris with most loyalist forces when compared to DW. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it and as a result it’s moved almost 100% of my Primaris efforts from my Ultramarines to my Deathwatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Fortis Kill Teams excel at clearing enemy screens and chaff which is a really big deal this edition. If you watch video batreps check out the channel Twisted Dice - they have some competitive Deathwatch players that use Primaris. Here’s my Kill Team I’m currently using now: Intercessor Sergeant - Auto Bolt Rifle & Power Sword 4x Intercessor - Auto Bolt Rifle 2x Inceptor - Assault Bolters Aggressor - Bolt weapons I deep strike this squad along with a Watch Captain to buff them. They always inflict lots of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 It honestly depends on your local meta and how likely you are to go up against a top level tournament lists. Veterans simply provide more of the tools you'll need to counter lists like that, largely due to Veterans having access to storm bolters, storm shields, and transports. Lists made with a huge Veteran core are what drive DW to the top 20 of big tournaments. Having said that, Deathwatch are the absolute best way you could play Primaris. Deathwatch gives you so many options and tends to solve many of each unit's baseline weaknesses. Intercessors and Reivers in codex marine lists aren't too killy, but with SIA they are. Hellblasters in codex marine lists suffer from being locked in combat and silenced, as well as losing efficiency very quickly as you lose models. Deathwatch solves that by giving you the ability to add an Inceptor so they can fall back and shoot still, and Intercessors so they gain a ton of ablative wounds. The same goes for Aggressors - not only do they add extra mobility onto your Intercessor squads, but they also benefit from those ablative wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brothy Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I only play against my mates with a limited selection of armies, however i play a pure Primaris Deathwatch army and it is brutal. my 2k list is quite simple with 2 battalions. Watch Master, 2 x captains and libby. 6 x fortis squads, 1 with just intercessors for backfield, one assault variant with aggressors and inceptor, 2 x plasma with hellblasters and 2 x plasma with hellblasters and a plasma inceptor. only issue with them is mobility. to party get round this i put a captain with beacon + 1 plasma inceptor squad in reserve. Turn 2 these come down and pull a third squad with them. i like this has it quickly creates a second front/cut off part of their army/or just overwhelm a single flank. Key to playing DW is their strategems, however i find their main weakness is transports (specifically wave serpants, bloody eldar) as there are no strategems/mission tactics to help deal with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I wish you could take Primaris captain and lieutenants as well as other units like the apothecary, redemptor and repulsor. If you could I'd drop the money on the DW codex as "codex more awesome Primaris marines" but gw doesn't want my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloeberjong Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I've had great succes with them. I have nothing much to add to the previous posts, but I know that Hellblasters do great when mixed with intercessors and Aggressors are pretty awesome in the middle of the field backed with a watch master. Put a libby in there with a deepstriking Redemptor and you've got a great party going. I wish you could take Primaris captain and lieutenants as well as other units like the apothecary, redemptor and repulsor. If you could I'd drop the money on the DW codex as "codex more awesome Primaris marines" but gw doesn't want my money. You can take those units though, so I don't get your post. The exception being lieutenants, but DW have their bonus built in, so they don't add much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I wish you could take Primaris captain and lieutenants as well as other units like the apothecary, redemptor and repulsor. If you could I'd drop the money on the DW codex as "codex more awesome Primaris marines" but gw doesn't want my money.Get to buying, because you have nothing to worry about ;) The Primaris Captain is available to DW, though the Gravis one is not. You can even use the store birthday loadout. The Lieutenant isn't available, but you don't need it since mission tactics (the DW chapter tactic) gives you re-roll 1s to wound already. That doesn't mean you can't use those models, though! I've picked up every Primaris Lieutenant I can get my hands on, no matter the chapter, and used them as Intercessor sergeants. Both the Redemptor and Repulsor are in the codex for Deathwatch and both look really good in black and red. The Apothecary is also in the codex. The only Primaris units you don't have access to are the aforementioned Lieutenant, the Chapter Ancient, and the Gravis Captain. Everything else is there in the codex :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 As Ron White would say to an invitation to go party on a yacht ":cuss yeah!" I was just going to convert a Lieutenant, this saves me that effort. I never liked the metapod (Gravis) armor for the captain, so that suits me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durdle-durdle Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 Well, i proxies a game against a guard opponent i’ve Never been able to beat with my blood angels. I...uh...tabled him in three turns. Suffice to say i’m Impressed. List for reference: New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [106 PL, 2015pts] Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) HQ Primaris Watch Captain Selections: Power sword Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Captain, Character, Deathwatch, HQ, Imperium, Infantry, Primaris Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle & bolt pistol Selections: Bolt Pistol, Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle Watch Master Selections: Bane of Monstrosities, Castellan of the Black Vault, Lord of Hidden Knowledge, Nowhere to Hide, The Beacon Angelis, Vigilance Incarnate, Warlord, Watch Eternal Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, HQ, Infantry, Deathwatch, Watch Master, Imperium Troops Intercessors Selections: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Deathwatch, Imperium, Infantry, Primaris, Troops Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Sergeant Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword Intercessors Selections: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Deathwatch, Imperium, Infantry, Primaris, Troops Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Sergeant Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword Intercessors Selections: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Deathwatch, Imperium, Infantry, Primaris, Troops Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Sergeant Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword Elites Redemptor Dreadnought Selections: Heavy Onlsaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod, Onslaught Gatling Cannon Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Deathwatch, Elites, Imperium, Vehicle, Dreadnought, Redemptor Dreadnought 2x Fragstorm Grenade launchers Selections: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers Dedicated Transport Repulsor Selections: Icarus Rocket Pod, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, 2x Krakstorm Grenade-launcher, Las-talon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Twin lascannon Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Deathwatch, Dedicated Transport, Fly, Imperium, Transport, Vehicle, Repulsor 2x Fragstorm Grenade launchers Selections: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers 2x Fragstorm Grenade launchers Selections: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) HQ Primaris Chaplain Selections: Absolver Bolt Pistol Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Chaplain, Character, Deathwatch, HQ, Imperium, Infantry, Primaris Primaris Librarian Selections: 2) Might of Heroes, Bolt Pistol, Force sword Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Deathwatch, HQ, Imperium, Infantry, Primaris, Psyker Troops Intercessors Selections: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Deathwatch, Imperium, Infantry, Primaris, Troops Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Sergeant Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword Intercessors Selections: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Deathwatch, Imperium, Infantry, Primaris, Troops Aggressor Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Selections: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers Aggressor Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Selections: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers Aggressor Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Selections: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers Aggressor Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Selections: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers Aggressor Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Selections: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Sergeant Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword Intercessors Selections: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Deathwatch, Imperium, Infantry, Primaris, Troops Hellblaster Selections: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator Hellblaster Selections: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator Hellblaster Selections: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator Hellblaster Selections: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator Hellblaster Selections: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle Intercessor Sergeant Selections: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword Created with BattleScribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta.Skies Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 I find myself only wanting to use one unit of primaris. And its coming in at 3oo pts for 5 intercessor, 3 aggressor 2 inteceptors for t5 and benefits. And even then im considering them only a mid range threat. We have mission tactics and special issue. So yea stormbolters and chainswords in razorbacks with watchmaster for me. I see multiple list, and its a flip of a quarter because of mobility and lack of anti tank. And even then you will just be a target. For me its just iffy to field pure dw. But im still a beginner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Red Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Current rules and game play aside, lets all be real here the future of Marines is going to be the Primaris line. As a long term investment you won't regret your decision on building an entire Primaris army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Current rules and game play aside, lets all be real here the future of Marines is going to be the Primaris line. As a long term investment you won't regret your decision on building an entire Primaris army. +1 to this. Plus they look REALLY nice in the black and silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Moonwolf Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I'm reading all this and soaking it in. I have a massive Space Wolf Army, I got tired of not having a codex when 8th came about so literally took like 4k of my 25k of wolves and made them Deathwatch. Now I got overpriced overcosted marines lmao. Zero primaris in anything I have (old school since '91) Well now my Great Wolf wants his boys back haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 They look good. But my mind still has them all proxied as regular Veterans. Why? The only fun I have in DW over my Salamanders is the carte blance to give anyone anything. Like, in principle, Deathwatch aren't actually *restricted* except by expediency. The current rules format, especially for Primaris, really... Rains on that parade. Steals the thunder. Loses the mojo. Even putting some in a mixed squad isn't *thrilling*, it's just shuffling their placement on the table. The exact mechanism is unique, but not in a way I find in any way compelling. (Maybe I'm looking at it wrong? Haven't been able to find the right angle though.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 They look good. But my mind still has them all proxied as regular Veterans. Why? The only fun I have in DW over my Salamanders is the carte blance to give anyone anything. Like, in principle, Deathwatch aren't actually *restricted* except by expediency. The current rules format, especially for Primaris, really... Rains on that parade. Steals the thunder. Loses the mojo. Even putting some in a mixed squad isn't *thrilling*, it's just shuffling their placement on the table. The exact mechanism is unique, but not in a way I find in any way compelling. (Maybe I'm looking at it wrong? Haven't been able to find the right angle though.) I think the Veteran carte blanche is great...if only every option was as capable as storm bolter/chainsword. I would love to see more than just that combo these days... But sadly the fun stops when you plop them on the table and all you end up doing is managing storm bolter SIA :( Whereas with Primaris, the synergy relationships usually go both ways. While both Veteran and Primaris Kill Teams give bonuses based on the makeup of the unit, that's really where the benefit for Primaris lies...so they focus on that above all else. Unlike Veterans, which are encouraged to add the other models based on how it helps your storm bolter Vets, the Primaris units complement each other in their builds. When you're adding Aggressors to Intercessors, you're simultaneously adding some options for mobility to the Intercessors and ablative wounds to the Aggressors. Hellblasters gain ablative wounds when added to Intercessors, while the Intercessor unit gains heavy objective secured firepower. It's all about filling gaps in the unit's baseline weaknesses and I think those synergies work together real well. But more than that, I think what excites me about Deathwatch Primaris is their future. Deathwatch Vets are a known quantity - they can take everything under the sun (even though 85% of it is ignored in favour of one build), but they won't ever gain additional unit rules. We know Primaris will likely see more infantry units...and what that might mean for Deathwatch Primaris is super fun to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 If I were a Watch Sergeant organising my team, and I had several decades with which to incorporate the use of Gravis armour and stripped-down Mk X, as well as new-fangled things like various grades of plasma incinerators... Why would I stick rigidly to the Legion-style load out of Guilliman's protocols? Why not look to Reivers toting an assault plasma-incinerators? --- And on the rules side of things - why go contra-8th Edition and make an intensely difficult combined-unit, instead of implementing aura effects. (See Chapter Champions, Chapter Ancients, Apothecaries, Company Veterans etc etc.) By your own example, Intercessors and Helblasters could easily be a single Troops squad: Primaris Deathwatch Veterans. Mix and match both unit's options. Very simple, very 8th edition. Hell, although I'm as pleased as anyone with how effective special issue ammo is, as it stands, I still don't entirely understand why they didn't go for Strategems with it. (Storm Bolters would still be vulnerable to abuse - but I'd have happily allowed a two-hander combo-stratagem: SIAs don't apply to SBs, unless you also expend an extra stratagem to 'upgrade' it.) Obviously, that's a completely different reality - not the one we exist in. --- In that respect, one thing I do find exciting is fiddling about to see what sort of kit-bashes are actually possible and good looking on the various Primaris kits. I enjoyed bashing my Intercessors - but as I opened with, they are all "Sword & Bolter/Rifle" illegal combos that need to count-as Veterans. (Unless it's a squad of Primaris Watch Sergeants... which is doubly illegal as one has a chainsword!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I dont have an Deathwatch 40k army, but i do have a killteam. Primaris are good. The extra wound is nice and SIA with bolt rifles are fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 If I were a Watch Sergeant organising my team, and I had several decades with which to incorporate the use of Gravis armour and stripped-down Mk X, as well as new-fangled things like various grades of plasma incinerators... Why would I stick rigidly to the Legion-style load out of Guilliman's protocols? Why not look to Reivers toting an assault plasma-incinerators? I feel like that fluff aspect isn't very important in a game with such stringent delineation between the fluff and the crunch. Naturally, from a fluff perspective, that could be because you received a large bunch of these Legion style troops fresh from the Primaris factory - best to keep them with their packaged parts maybe? Unknown. Honestly, as a Watch Sergeant, I'd be driven mad watching my Veteran non Primaris squad mates refuse to walk up the ramp into a Repulsor just because it had that 'scary new tech heresy smell'. Get in there, boys! Sometimes the rules don't really make sense in universe. Plus, other than access to a flashbang, a batman grappling gun, and a scary voodoo mask, (which are all mostly unitwide buffs anyway) what is the fundamental difference between a Reiver and Hellblaster? But for what little it'll actually achieve, I do agree with you, maybe it should be an option legally. And on the rules side of things - why go contra-8th Edition and make an intensely difficult combined-unit, instead of implementing aura effects. (See Chapter Champions, Chapter Ancients, Apothecaries, Company Veterans etc etc.) By your own example, Intercessors and Helblasters could easily be a single Troops squad: Primaris Deathwatch Veterans. Mix and match both unit's options. Very simple, very 8th edition. Hell, although I'm as pleased as anyone with how effective special issue ammo is, as it stands, I still don't entirely understand why they didn't go for Strategems with it. (Storm Bolters would still be vulnerable to abuse - but I'd have happily allowed a two-hander combo-stratagem: SIAs don't apply to SBs, unless you also expend an extra stratagem to 'upgrade' it.) Obviously, that's a completely different reality - not the one we exist in. Well, technically Intercessors and Hellblasters are a single troop squad, and you can mix and match, thanks for Fortis KTs. You're just forced to start with 5 Intercessors instead of starting from anywhere you want. Kind of like how you have to start with 5 Veterans, and can't just mix and match. That's not questioned because the other options are trash tier and only serve to add to your Vets, but it's the same limitation. Guess it's seen as different because they similar just with different weapons? In regards to storm bolter SIA, I imagine it was added to give Terminators and Terminator characters the SIA they deserved all along. Side effect of a bloated Space Marine lineup, though. What they should have done was just delete that bullet point from the list of Deathwatch Equipment, apologize to the 3 players who had them modeled before they received SIA in 8th, and moved on gracefully. They'd still exist under Terminator Combi-Weapons, but not break the Vet options quite as painfully. But you're right - completely different reality. In that respect, one thing I do find exciting is fiddling about to see what sort of kit-bashes are actually possible and good looking on the various Primaris kits. I enjoyed bashing my Intercessors - but as I opened with, they are all "Sword & Bolter/Rifle" illegal combos that need to count-as Veterans. (Unless it's a squad of Primaris Watch Sergeants... which is doubly illegal as one has a chainsword!) That's not illegal. Deathwatch Sergeants can carry chainswords. They'd all have to be Sergeants, though. That's what I'm doing with each of those Lts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Some people just don’t get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Some people just don’t get it. Get what? What am I missing here? If I did a whoosh, you're legally required to inform me ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I was not commenting in regards to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkyHamHam Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I was not commenting in regards to you. Care to explain then? It helps to speak your point, rather than posting vague sleights at people, who since you don't quote them or bother to write their name will never "get it" as you say. I can't speak for all but myself, but I usually try to give the other frater the benefit of the doubt. And I definitely appreciate the same. We all love the hobby in some facet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I do try too but sometimes people wear out the welcome mat figuratively speaking. We are quite tactical in this forum and Deathwatch is currently the most competitive SM dex imho. Primaris work because you can mix Marines from different units... you don't need a Reiver with a plasma pistole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I do try too but sometimes people wear out the welcome mat figuratively speaking. We are quite tactical in this forum and Deathwatch is currently the most competitive SM dex imho. Primaris work because you can mix Marines from different units... you don't need a Reiver with a plasma pistole.I think Xisor's point is that the options to mix and match that deeply appeal to many and, in many cases, can emulate what can already be done with a Fortis team, so why even maintain the limitations? Basically, if I'm parsing it right, why even maintain these limitations that take complicated combinations to overcome when a simple "give access to X wargear to model Y" would be simpler. It's a uniquely different perspective because it both has merit but also misses the point of Primaris. I do not disagree that it's a draw to make those types of choices for your units. That's a compelling point, and shouldn't be discounted. The simplicity for Primaris comes less from streamlining access to wargear and instead focusing everyone on what the baseline model contributes to the unit. Veterans select models AND relevant wargear, and the possible permutations are myriad, but many are largely irrelevant. Primaris kill teams choose models with set wargear as a package, making it ultimately simpler. You know what an Intercessor or Hellblaster is bringing. You know what a Reiver and Inceptor contributes. You slot that into your unit much easier than deciding what type of the several dozen variations of Veteran you can craft, some of which are ill advised. Removing boundaries may seem simpler, and a Reiver with an assault plasma incinerate sounds awesome, but it is a facade. There's hidden complexity and pitfalls there that don't exist with Primaris entirely because of their legion aesthetic, and that means that their synergies are tighter and symbiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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