Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Sisters Preview


365 replies to this topic

#351
CrusherJoe

CrusherJoe

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 264 posts
  • Location:Austin, Texas
  • Faction: AS AM SW UM

Good stuff, y'all. I agree -- and I've always held that reasoned discourse is far better than emotional ranting. I apologize to everyone here, I'm afraid I've been more emotional than rational about this whole mess. 

 

I intend on doing a lot of playtesting, list crafting, and more playtesting -- both as a stand-alone army and as a soup ingredient. My initial thoughts are that this feels less like a full release (and we know it's isn't) and more like one of the old "get you by" things from WD years ago. It also feels like Sisters may not stand by themselves, but are better with other Imperial support. We'll see.


QUOTE (Lagrath @ Jul 22 2008, 06:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Chaos players complaining about goodies in the vanilla codex is hilarious to watch. It's like Bill Gates complaining that the blue-collar worker down the street won 500 dollars in the lottery.
 
"I am not alone," said Celestine. "And your hour is done."
 

#352
Slasher956

Slasher956

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 252 posts
  • Faction: OoOML, Ulthwé
My initial thoughts are this reads more a rehashed index list than a beta dex...
HQs - where is our generic mobile one? Ie one with a jump pack or bike or in a vehicle like every other dex?
Wounds - so we go 1 wound, a single 2 wound per model unit to 4 wound elites to 5 wound hqs... there is no gradual change and I find that weird

The other thing is...as a new dex it should be written to stand alone not having to soup to be competitive


Well time will

#353
A.T.

A.T.

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,034 posts

I feel repentia and arcos are counters to 2 different kinda of targets.
Its pretty obvious; arcos = anti chaff. Repentia = anti bignasty.

 

Index repentia were statistically inferior to death cultists against many forms of 'bignasty' unit unless they were trailing along a mistress and priest. At strength 8 with a bonus attack though they are quite a bit stronger.



#354
ERJAK

ERJAK

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 503 posts

One interesting ray of light is that Battalion+Dominions+Allies actually got a fair bit better. It was at a hell of a cost to pay, but my standard tournament list core is technically stronger than it was...if you ignore how much use I got out of Celestine and a unit of Inferno pistol Seraphim.

 

Every time I try to find something good to say about this book I talk myself out of it.


  • CrusherJoe and Beams like this

#355
Atrus

Atrus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 625 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Faction: Order of the Penitent Spirit
Im curious to see where my brigade will finish up points wise. Im hopeful that i can add in some ministorum; priest model i like, couple of pengines cuz they so amazing looking. Though i need to replace the pilot from one i used for my knight. Think i have an old penitent psyker model from WH days i might be able to make work.

#356
ERJAK

ERJAK

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 503 posts

Im curious to see where my brigade will finish up points wise. Im hopeful that i can add in some ministorum; priest model i like, couple of pengines cuz they so amazing looking. Though i need to replace the pilot from one i used for my knight. Think i have an old penitent psyker model from WH days i might be able to make work.

The things that have changed in price are:

 

Celestine down 40

Uriah down 40

Elite priest down 10 from previous priest
Exorcists down 10

Melta down 3

Combi-Melta down 4

Flamer down 3

Inferno Pistol down 2

Combi-flamer down 3

Heavy Flamer down 3

Multimelta down 5

Twin Multimelta down 14

Immolation flamer down 5

Reptentia down 2

Dialogus Up 15

Evis down 1

 

Don't know about Penitent Engines, but I heard they got slightly cheaper.

 

Keep in mind that most of the weapon drops are in line with the universal drops every army is seeing. It ends up totaling about 150pts for an average list with Celestine and 100ish for non-Celestine lists.



#357
Atrus

Atrus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 625 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Faction: Order of the Penitent Spirit
Well ive heard that Imagifiers are gone and are 10pt upgrade for squads, so thats 90-120pts there straight away. 40-90pt from celestine (may not take geminae), 30 from 3 exorcists. Plus small numbers from equipments and units- lost count in the 60s. Probably looking close to 300pt difference maybe? That should be enough to play around with some things.

#358
Montford

Montford

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 546 posts
  • Location:Nigh that dark and bloody river.
  • Faction: Sisters of Battle/Red Templars

 

Im curious to see where my brigade will finish up points wise. Im hopeful that i can add in some ministorum; priest model i like, couple of pengines cuz they so amazing looking. Though i need to replace the pilot from one i used for my knight. Think i have an old penitent psyker model from WH days i might be able to make work.

The things that have changed in price are:

 

Celestine down 40

Uriah down 40

Elite priest down 10 from previous priest
Exorcists down 10

Melta down 3

Combi-Melta down 4

Flamer down 3

Inferno Pistol down 2

Combi-flamer down 3

Heavy Flamer down 3

Multimelta down 5

Twin Multimelta down 14

Immolation flamer down 5

Reptentia down 2

Dialogus Up 15

Evis down 1

 

Don't know about Penitent Engines, but I heard they got slightly cheaper.

 

Keep in mind that most of the weapon drops are in line with the universal drops every army is seeing. It ends up totaling about 150pts for an average list with Celestine and 100ish for non-Celestine lists.

 

 

Penitent Engines are down 29 points.


Peace may cost less than war, or infinitely more, for war cannot cost more than one's own life.

 

-Klingon proverb


#359
Slasher956

Slasher956

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 252 posts
  • Faction: OoOML, Ulthwé

going off that list of points my 2K brigade (in the lists sub-forum) is now ~190 points* cheaper but needs at least one more elite.

 

so putting all 6 troop squads up 10 girls strong that leaves me about 150 points so a priest + another immolator. 

 

As I'm OoOML, on AoF it'll be from 1+1+possible 4 a turn (ave 16 in a 4 turn game) to 3+ 9 + losses for the game.... so no real change in number of AoFs

 

 

*after moving the 4 Imags back to the squads as upgrades.


Edited by Slasher956, Today, 12:15 PM.


#360
taikishi

taikishi

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 546 posts

Well ive heard that Imagifiers are gone and are 10pt upgrade for squads, so thats 90-120pts there straight away. 40-90pt from celestine (may not take geminae), 30 from 3 exorcists. Plus small numbers from equipments and units- lost count in the 60s. Probably looking close to 300pt difference maybe? That should be enough to play around with some things.

 

 

Imagifiers were replaced with Similacrum Imperialis. 10pt unit upgrade for +1 on AoF roll, but only BSS, Celestians, Dominions and Retributors can take them and it has to be a separate model from your VSS and your special/heavy weapons, so if you were taking 5-model Dominion/Retributor squads before they now need to be 6 model, so their price (before their weapons dropped) went up 19ppu


Edited by taikishi, Today, 12:38 PM.


#361
taikishi

taikishi

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 546 posts

going off that list of points my 2K brigade (in the lists sub-forum) is now ~190 points* cheaper but needs at least one more elite.

 

so putting all 6 troop squads up 10 girls strong that leaves me about 150 points so a priest + another immolator. 

 

As I'm OoOML, on AoF it'll be from 1+1+possible 4 a turn (ave 16 in a 4 turn game) to 3+ 9 + losses for the game.... so no real change in number of AoFs

 

 

*after moving the 4 Imags back to the squads as upgrades.

 

4? After Rule of X hit, you were limited to 3 in a 2000 point game. And you were running 90 Sisters/Crusaders in your army? Because the bonus faith points are for every 10 infantry models with the Acts of Faith rule.



#362
Slasher956

Slasher956

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 252 posts
  • Faction: OoOML, Ulthwé

That list was written before the R03 hit!

 

& yes that many girls!... 6 squads of 9 BSS, 1 x 5 seraphim, 1 x 6 seraphim, 1 x 6 dominion, 2 x 5 Rets, 9 repentia...

 

http://www.bolterand...917-2k-brigade/

 

edit - earlier comment was wrong about needing the extra elite... forgot that the saints bodyguard are now an elite unit on their own :P


Edited by Slasher956, Today, 12:59 PM.


#363
Montford

Montford

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 546 posts
  • Location:Nigh that dark and bloody river.
  • Faction: Sisters of Battle/Red Templars

Imagifiers once filled my Elite slots for Brigade formations. Now I'll need to use other units. That's making me rework my lists on top of the rules changes.


Edited by Montford, Today, 01:05 PM.

Peace may cost less than war, or infinitely more, for war cannot cost more than one's own life.

 

-Klingon proverb


#364
tvih

tvih

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,848 posts
  • Location:Finland
  • Faction: BT/CF/Orks/AS/IG/etc

Since the Simulacrum can be upgraded to a banner, I guess it means my banner miniature is no longer obsolete :P



#365
Ignispacium

Ignispacium

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1 posts

I'm not much of a serious sisters player. I'm the only one I know of in person and I've got a whole almost 1,000 points of un-optimized metal sisters that I will periodically play. So I'm not coming in to this discussion as an experienced or even very dedicated sisters player.

 

As a casual player looking at the beta codex, it's boring. I also understand that this is a beta codex and doesn't include the no doubt 2-5 new units or models that the final version will. This however doesn't make me want to run out and buy another 1,000 points of metal (or plastic) sisters in anticipation of the final copy.

 

The index AoF were strong, I'd even say they could stand some toning down, but they made up for the fact that the army was overall very lacklustre in terms of movement and offensive capability and in identity.

 

If someone were to theoretically take away Acts of Faith entirely, the sisters look largely like weaker space marines with far fewer unit and weapon choices. The beta acts read not like a special army wide feature (see imperial guard orders or power from pain or even psychic powers) but rather like the sisters traded 2/3rds of the space marines equipment for access to a set of extra stratagems.

 

Also Ebon Chalice seems far too much like an auto-include if a player is using AoF to any significant degree. I've mentioned it elsewhere but it's similar to getting a free ten points on every simulacrum eligible unit while giving a simulacrum to units that can't take them.

 

Maybe I can't see the potential and the power with this new codex because of my lack of experience with the army. If this beta codex reflects what will likely be in the final product (and that's accounting for 2-5 new units or models) then I don't know how enthusiastic players will be to adopt it.



#366
Servant of Dante

Servant of Dante

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,562 posts
  • Location:Ophelia VII
  • Faction: Order of the Valorous Heart
Personally, I like where the power level of each individual AoF is right now, based on what I’ve read. What I think I’d like to see is more Faith Points and no restriction on how many units can attempt a given AoF in 1 turn. If it were like the WH system in that each unit can attempt each AoF up to once per turn, and the base number of FPs went up to 5 or 6 (edit: lowering the ratio of models to FPs might be better for scaling, like 1 per 6 models or something, though that would be a bit more clunky to count) I think that would be reasonable. But of course I’ve not played any games yet so I’m not just eyeballing things. However, these would both be very simple changes to make for GW.

Edited by Servant of Dante, Today, 03:23 PM.

  • Commander Dawnstar and Slasher956 like this



Reply to this topic



  


5 user(s) are reading this topic

3 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users


    micahwc, Warsmith Aznable, war009