Sisters Preview

[Drider]

I'd also argue that healing units with the AoFs is a pretty sad use of them. Getting single models back, even on multiple units, is pretty mediocre considering how cheap our wounds are and healing tanks would only be worth the fairly ridiculous investment necessary if you were healing multiple tanks above their degradation point.

I dunno man. It's situational. Respawning special/heavy weapons is pretty clutch.

[Beams]

6" for hand Flamers.

 

And yeah, if you respawn a mutlimelta or two it's most definitely worth it, but respawning a single BSS def isn't, unless that's key for holding an objective.

[Purifying Tempest]

Free models are free models, ask Necros, Chaos, or Orks how they feel about getting stuff back.

 

Ours isn't WHAM! all at once, but bringing back a key weapon lost earlier, or sometimes just a body at all can be a massive swing for a unit.  A pile of wounded units and vehicles can all be affected by Vessels, too.  I mean, it just sounds strong to have it as a trump card if your opponent can seriously hurt but not clear multiple units.  He'll have to shift more fire to make sure those units are completely wiped out, which diverts fire away from other models, too, which is always helpful.

 

I'm pretty sure this Act needs to be used every turn possible, otherwise you're not getting the full strength out of it.  Sucks that you have to drop so many Faith Points into it, but it seems like the impact would build over the course of the game.

[Montford]

One of the things I intend to try is large (10 model) squads. I'll be running Sacred Rose so I anticipate my troops having a little more staying power than they did before.

[ERJAK]

Free models are free models, ask Necros, Chaos, or Orks how they feel about getting stuff back.

 

Ours isn't WHAM! all at once, but bringing back a key weapon lost earlier, or sometimes just a body at all can be a massive swing for a unit. A pile of wounded units and vehicles can all be affected by Vessels, too. I mean, it just sounds strong to have it as a trump card if your opponent can seriously hurt but not clear multiple units. He'll have to shift more fire to make sure those units are completely wiped out, which diverts fire away from other models, too, which is always helpful.

 

I'm pretty sure this Act needs to be used every turn possible, otherwise you're not getting the full strength out of it. Sucks that you have to drop so many Faith Points into it, but it seems like the impact would build over the course of the game.

The most models you could possibly get back over the course of the game not using vessels is 7. More likely you'll get 3.5.

 

Then you have the question of what you'll actually be getting back, especially if you use Vessels. BSS, Seraphim, and Celestian squads you kill the bolter sisters first so you'll only be getting those back and BSS and Celestians use Stormbolters a lot of the time anyway. Dominions are a good one to get some models back from but are unlikely to be in range of anything to Vessels. Retributors remain the best target for this but are ultimately still just...retributors. Probably the best use of it is to drop a heal on the 4++ blob when going second.

 

I'm not saying it's bad, but this is another one of those bonuses that seems better than it is because of how unimpressive the other acts are. On its own it's good for 3-4 extra meltas or heavy bolters over the course of an average game. It's decent, and if Vessels goes down enough that we can use it twice a turn without crippling ourselves, it could be a solid value proposition. Right now Vessels on this and +1 to hit together cost 6cp per turn.

 

Like most things in this book it's making the best of a bad situation.

[dracpanzer]

I'd also argue that healing units with the AoFs is a pretty sad use of them. Getting single models back, even on multiple units, is pretty mediocre considering how cheap our wounds are and healing tanks would only be worth the fairly ridiculous investment necessary if you were healing multiple tanks above their degradation point.

Pretty sad? Maybe, but it isn't like they are all that great anyways. If you can keep a handful of tanks clumped together the start of turn 3 and have perhaps enough cp for two Vessels, the chance to heal even 2d3 wounds from turn three to four on even 3 tanks and a couple characters while running them in your 4++ bubble might just get you through our Sisters survivability issues.

 

Healing 5d3 wounds per turn is pretty good, and unless Vessels is worded "wholly within" not impossible to pull off.

[Purifying Tempest]

It is also about getting the choice of what to bring back.  You may not have the ability to pick and choose which units are shot up, but you do have the ability to choose which units get a model back.  Given that we're definitely running Dominions, probably running Retributors of some flavor, and are probably better off running Exorcist castles... there's going to be plenty of opportunity to get a free 20 points back every now and then for a Faith Point.  Looking turn to turn you go: yeah, only getting a Battle Sister with a Combi Bolter back this turn, but over the course of the game it may be: I got a Combi Bolter Sister, 2 melta Dominions, and replenished a d3 wounds to a couple of exorcists.  About 50 points in raw models and almost a whole bracket on an Exorcist.

 

I don't see AoFs value being measured in 1 punch, I'm try to look at it as: What are you giving me over the course of the game?  Am I getting a points advantage by saving/reviving models?  Is that stupid 3" just enough to score a point or two extra (still weak, but victory points are win conditions)?  Did I mitigate some mortals and/or morale losses?  Again, it isn't the front-loaded value that old acts provided, but I think the value over time is where it may start to shine.

[Mekhitar]

I mean, the guard jury rig strat is 1cp for 1 hull point. It’s not too bad an option in comparison. Are you going to use it every game? No. Can it come in handy? Yeah. Especially as it is literally our only way of healing tanks.

[ERJAK]

It is also about getting the choice of what to bring back. You may not have the ability to pick and choose which units are shot up, but you do have the ability to choose which units get a model back. Given that we're definitely running Dominions, probably running Retributors of some flavor, and are probably better off running Exorcist castles... there's going to be plenty of opportunity to get a free 20 points back every now and then for a Faith Point. Looking turn to turn you go: yeah, only getting a Battle Sister with a Combi Bolter back this turn, but over the course of the game it may be: I got a Combi Bolter Sister, 2 melta Dominions, and replenished a d3 wounds to a couple of exorcists. About 50 points in raw models and almost a whole bracket on an Exorcist.

 

I don't see AoFs value being measured in 1 punch, I'm try to look at it as: What are you giving me over the course of the game? Am I getting a points advantage by saving/reviving models? Is that stupid 3" just enough to score a point or two extra (still weak, but victory points are win conditions)? Did I mitigate some mortals and/or morale losses? Again, it isn't the front-loaded value that old acts provided, but I think the value over time is where it may start to shine.

'Shine' is a bit strong. 'Helpful' is about where any of the AoFs top out at. And this one is decent, it's just not something I feel like is going to make a significant difference in most games. I'm also not sure how useful 'long term value gains' is when the competitive meta is seeing most games decided on turn 3 or so.

[CrusherJoe]

 

I feel sorry for the people who do battle scribe & similar programs..... 

<snip!>

 

I split doing the Guard datafiles with Jon (@alphalas on GitHub/Gitter) and handle Space Wolves by myself. Jon is doing Sisters beta because he called dibs on doing the beta update and has seniority  (though I helped with updating AdMin to 8th). We're both Sisters players so we're determined it be right. It's been...interesting. Not as interesting as Fall of Cadia was to implement, but lots of logic loops and hide/unhide depending on unit choices. Good times!

 

Which reminds me, if you find issues with the Sisters datafile after we do the release Saturday morning please let me know here or on GitHub. We want everyone to have an accurate way to build lists and provide feedback!

[CrusherJoe]

I also play the golden boys, though mine wear red and/or purple tabards so they go with my sisters...

 

You know, I’m thinking. If we end up getting that “novitiate” unit for troops, our capacity to take 4++ with 1001 ways to mitigate morale might actually be fairly solid.

 

If we get that unit.

 

I do something similar! All my non-marine armies (particularly my Guard and even Knights) use the same color palette as my Sisters, which have been "The Order of the Black Iris" since their inception as an army. I (try to) use the palette from Georgia O'Keefe's painting Black Iris III as inspiration. Lots of gray, purple and (desaturated) pink tones/shades/hues used all over the place. In my head-canon they're survivors of The Fall of Cadia and part of The Celestine Crusade that adopted her colors to show devotion, adoration and respect.

[Drider]

Oh snap. I did my knights to look like big sisters. Did my token Iron clad and drop pod for Fall of Cadia the same scheme as well with a little bit of kit bashing on the dread.

 

So, beta sisters is gonna be the best faction to manage on BS?

[sedibear]

I just thought about this but we can actually use Holy Trinity in a mixed Seraphim Squad to essentially shoot 4 flamers and +1 to wound on 4 meltas and however many bolt pistols.

 

Use it with the Seraphim stratagem to light up some squads :P

[Atrus]

Cantuse with seraphim stratagem because all those weapons have to fire at the one squad and the strat doesnt increase the inferno pistols range, only the hand flamer. :(

[Mekhitar]

If seraphim superiors could use hand flamers....

 

But they can’t.

[taikishi]

Even then, as was already pointed out, you can't combine the two stratagems because inferno pistols only have a 6" range and don't benefit from Burning Descent since you have you be 9+ inches away when you deep strike.

 

Also, for the record, the more I look at Slamguinius the angrier I get at what was done to Celestine.

[Mekhitar]

No, you can’t, you are right. But pulling off the AoF to hit on a 2+, and then using holy trinity and the strat that lets you reroll 1s to wd after a successful AoF would have been a nice combo for those inferno pistols. Alas, out of reach (at least for now).

[Atrus]

Granted, Divine Guidance with Holy Trinity and the reroll 1s to wound strat is going to be a nice combo, but that is at least a 2cp sink. I dont think its something to be wasted on a small MSU; rather on a squad of no less than 10 for better results.

 

Edit:

At s3, rerolling 1s to wound isnt hand flamers problem. Ideally they want to reroll all failed wound rolls. Which they cant do.

 

Edit 2:

I would really like to see Blessed Bolts be a Celestian stratagem. If a unit is going to have blessed ammunition, i see it as the Celestians. Have it apply to all their bolt weapons though, bot just storm bolters.

It would certainly help give them a place in the army aside from just slightly better bss.

 

That said, nothing stopping me at the moment from taking a squad of Celestians and playing Blessed Bolts only on them.

 

Edit 3:

Dang, i think i just convinced myself on how/why to run Celestians. No competitive reasons, but the flavour of celestians with blessed bolts being divinely guided with faith and fury just sits so well with me.

...okay, at least one squad of Celestians will be making it into my lists from now on.

[CaptainMarsh]

Geminae are still characters, so that helps

[ERJAK]

Geminae are still characters, so that helps

If only they had spent more than 4 seconds making their new warscroll.

[Atrus]

 

 

Geminae are still characters, so that helps

If only they had spent more than 4 seconds making their new warscroll.

Well to those who wanted close combat seraphim, there ya go.

[CaptainMarsh]

They are just such an uninspiring unit on their own. They don't have the punch to justify their cost nor the staying power. Healing Tears before allowed them to be a consistent thorn, now they're kinda not worth it? One or two extra wounds would have helped out tremendously. 

I wait patiently for the Beta Forum to open!

[Trokair]

My pre-order CA 2018 has just arrived, so if there were any rules clarification that anybody wants feel free to ask.

 

Obviously most of us will have CA 2018 fairly soon but I thought I offer as the post arrived nice and early.

[CaptainMarsh]

I had a nice look throughout it today as well. Lots of interesting stuff in there, Sisters and likewise. Also got some games in, CA in hand. Excited for beta forum opening.

[ERJAK]

I had a nice look throughout it today as well. Lots of interesting stuff in there, Sisters and likewise. Also got some games in, CA in hand. Excited for beta forum opening.

The Bolter and Chainsword Sisters Beta forum I assume? I might be out of the loop on this one.