Chapter Approved Points Reductions

[SmiteThemAll]

I'm happy with the point decreases. I have a lot of DW and RW so being able to field more terminators, Ven dreads , bikes and landspeeders is decent.

 

I truly hope they've fixed the death wing assault stratagem tho, THREE!!! cp's to shoot twice with a unit that doesn't really hit that hard is insane. it needs to be 1 cp or 2 at the absolute most. If that happens I'll be fielding my DW more often. Heres hoping eh?

[CyberC1]

Looks like company vets got a slight decrease.

 

Wonder if there's a play here with a bunch of 'em in a drop pod with overcharged plasmas...

[STTAB]

Storm shields and plasma ;)

[CyberC1]

Yessssss

 

 

 

Storm shields and plasma

[BlackTriton]

I would consider double plasma pistol and save yourself 1 point per model!

Plus it would look so good.

[STTAB]

 

 

Quick thought. RW bikers Vs Dark Talon 7 RW bikers' combi plasma on sarge and 2 guys with plasma is 194 points.

 

Bikers 28 bolter shots Vs twin hurricane bolters at +1 give similar results and and 6 plasma shots outperforms the rift canon. Talon has bombs but bikers can fight in cc and use the new stratagem for crazy movement stuff.

 

Difficult choice. Why not take both.

[Isiah]

All very interesting news. And just as I was on the verge of selling of what little of my DW I still have.

 

Grrrr Games Workshop - you’re reeling me back in

[MaxB]

 

I'm glad my Deathwing (Terminators, Ven Dreads and Land Raider) got cheaper (in total my list will now cost 200+ points less) but the lack of point adjustment on our characters when both BA and SM got some is puzzling to me.

It’s disappointing but I’m not surprised. Azrael and Sammael for their points out perform regularly for me. Sammael in sableclaw might well be the best alround unit in the imperium.

 

After attending a tournament with these two and a Talonmaster I agree with this. Suberb mileage from all 3 in every game. No point reduction needed imo

 

Very happy to see reduction for RW units.

[sneakybamsen]

Good things happened in CA, no doubt.

 

I don't like to moan, but I cannot help wondering why marines weren't lowered a fraction. When so many armies can do so much cheaper battalions than astartes, it just seems odd that such a poorly performing unit couldn't at least get that bit of help before being completely reduced to historical references. Even I have decided that primaris is now the only way to go, in spite of having been a stubborn first legion fanatic without Mk X in my collection. The reason: coming characters in primaris versions and the fact that marines can be upgraded to primaris instead of being replaced by guillimans lapdogs.

Also the RW and DW apothecaries, ancients and champions are still way too many points in my perspective. Our HQ's do so many things so much better, the only way I can justify bringing the elite characters is fluff.

And one small change noone else pointed out, I think. Plasma cannons. Most chapters won't notice, but DA plasma without primaris will. Yeah, it's only a 2 points per cannon increase, so it's not that big a deal, but in the end it does matter, if you try to run greenwing without primaris.

The last things that puzzle me is why librarians in power armour are still so expensive, why Asmodai had no changes whatsoever, and why land raiders didn't get a bigger drop in points.

 

But yes, RW and DW seem to be the winners here. Most of our special characters are fine where they are points wise, except Asmodai, but I do theink the Talonmaster could do with an invul. At 188 points he costs slightly more than a daemon prince, but doesn't cast spells, fights a lot worse and dies easier. He can of course shoot, but it's not like he will kill anything near his own value during a battle. He does have his auras, which are nice, but having him as warlord is challenging as he will surely die with the protection we can actually afford him. I like him, and I bring him regularly, but I do feel he lacks an invul save too much.

[Hantheman]

I think shorty ven dreads and sniper scouts could be interesting for us now they’re cheaper too. Back-line supporting fire that can use grim resolve

[BlackTriton]

Good things happened in CA, no doubt.

 

I don't like to moan, but I cannot help wondering why marines weren't lowered a fraction. When so many armies can do so much cheaper battalions than astartes, it just seems odd that such a poorly performing unit couldn't at least get that bit of help before being completely reduced to historical references. Even I have decided that primaris is now the only way to go, in spite of having been a stubborn first legion fanatic without Mk X in my collection. The reason: coming characters in primaris versions and the fact that marines can be upgraded to primaris instead of being replaced by guillimans lapdogs.

Also the RW and DW apothecaries, ancients and champions are still way too many points in my perspective. Our HQ's do so many things so much better, the only way I can justify bringing the elite characters is fluff.

And one small change noone else pointed out, I think. Plasma cannons. Most chapters won't notice, but DA plasma without primaris will. Yeah, it's only a 2 points per cannon increase, so it's not that big a deal, but in the end it does matter, if you try to run greenwing without primaris.

The last things that puzzle me is why librarians in power armour are still so expensive, why Asmodai had no changes whatsoever, and why land raiders didn't get a bigger drop in points.

 

But yes, RW and DW seem to be the winners here. Most of our special characters are fine where they are points wise, except Asmodai, but I do theink the Talonmaster could do with an invul. At 188 points he costs slightly more than a daemon prince, but doesn't cast spells, fights a lot worse and dies easier. He can of course shoot, but it's not like he will kill anything near his own value during a battle. He does have his auras, which are nice, but having him as warlord is challenging as he will surely die with the protection we can actually afford him. I like him, and I bring him regularly, but I do feel he lacks an invul save too much.

 

what do you mean plasma canon went up ? they use to be 21pt now down to 16pt, a 5 point decrease! it makes plasma canon devastator a lot better.

yea, unnamed elite character sucks at the moment. There may be an argument for the RW Apo, since having good shooting on him might be interesting. 

 

Concerning basic marine: GW has no interest in Tac marine, scout or Imperial guard will be needed for any competitive list. 

your only hope there is the (rumored but very likely) new codex, but do not hold any hope for the most basic of basic marine.

[SnakeChisler]

The Ravenwing look to be back, standard bikes have always been useful with the buffs and strats but a big mob of black knights could really be a force.

 

Cheaper and able to duck and drive in and out of combat with the new formation, attack bikes took a drop and I'm guessing multi melta's will also.

 

The points drop for Deathwing Knights is still not enough and neither is the land raider drop without an invun it's dead in its tracks

[sneakybamsen]

 

Good things happened in CA, no doubt.

 

I don't like to moan, but I cannot help wondering why marines weren't lowered a fraction. When so many armies can do so much cheaper battalions than astartes, it just seems odd that such a poorly performing unit couldn't at least get that bit of help before being completely reduced to historical references. Even I have decided that primaris is now the only way to go, in spite of having been a stubborn first legion fanatic without Mk X in my collection. The reason: coming characters in primaris versions and the fact that marines can be upgraded to primaris instead of being replaced by guillimans lapdogs.

Also the RW and DW apothecaries, ancients and champions are still way too many points in my perspective. Our HQ's do so many things so much better, the only way I can justify bringing the elite characters is fluff.

And one small change noone else pointed out, I think. Plasma cannons. Most chapters won't notice, but DA plasma without primaris will. Yeah, it's only a 2 points per cannon increase, so it's not that big a deal, but in the end it does matter, if you try to run greenwing without primaris.

The last things that puzzle me is why librarians in power armour are still so expensive, why Asmodai had no changes whatsoever, and why land raiders didn't get a bigger drop in points.

 

But yes, RW and DW seem to be the winners here. Most of our special characters are fine where they are points wise, except Asmodai, but I do theink the Talonmaster could do with an invul. At 188 points he costs slightly more than a daemon prince, but doesn't cast spells, fights a lot worse and dies easier. He can of course shoot, but it's not like he will kill anything near his own value during a battle. He does have his auras, which are nice, but having him as warlord is challenging as he will surely die with the protection we can actually afford him. I like him, and I bring him regularly, but I do feel he lacks an invul save too much.

 

what do you mean plasma canon went up ? they use to be 21pt now down to 16pt, a 5 point decrease! it makes plasma canon devastator a lot better.

yea, unnamed elite character sucks at the moment. There may be an argument for the RW Apo, since having good shooting on him might be interesting. 

 

Concerning basic marine: GW has no interest in Tac marine, scout or Imperial guard will be needed for any competitive list. 

your only hope there is the (rumored but very likely) new codex, but do not hold any hope for the most basic of basic marine.

 

 

You're absolutely right. I had somehow gotten into my head the plasma cannon was 14 pre CA, haha. My bad :)

[palin2222]

So a Twin Lascannon is now 40 points. Does that mean a normal Lascannon is 20, or does it remain 25?

[Helias_Tancred]

I'm assuming this point change will not affect existing power levels for said units?

 

Thanks.

[Angel of Solitude]

 

But yes, RW and DW seem to be the winners here. Most of our special characters are fine where they are points wise, except Asmodai, but I do theink the Talonmaster could do with an invul. At 188 points he costs slightly more than a daemon prince, but doesn't cast spells, fights a lot worse and dies easier. He can of course shoot, but it's not like he will kill anything near his own value during a battle. He does have his auras, which are nice, but having him as warlord is challenging as he will surely die with the protection we can actually afford him. I like him, and I bring him regularly, but I do feel he lacks an invul save too much.

 

A few things about the Talonmaster which make him well worth the points when taken with Ravenwing. First, he's a character so can't be targeted if there is a nearer model. Second, combine him with a Darkshround and the Shroud of Heroes and he's at -2 to hit. Finally, that new 2 CP "Prepared Positions" strategem that gives you a turn 1 cover save? Talonmaster allows Ravenwing units to ignore it. Played that against a Guard player the other night, and he was not best impressed when my Black Knights, Dark Talon, Sammael, Talonmaster and Plasma bike squad all opened fire into this defensive lines...

[BlackTriton]

So a Twin Lascannon is now 40 points. Does that mean a normal Lascannon is 20, or does it remain 25?

They remained at 25.

In general now, twin version are cheaper.

Missile launcher down to 20 (and dual down to 38) is nice. No longer just an inferior version of the same thing.

 

 

No changes to power levels either.

It seems they are really shy about changes to the actual datasheet.

We are told to wait (expect?) new codexes for these kind of changes.

[Grand Master Raziel]

I would consider double plasma pistol and save yourself 1 point per model!

Plus it would look so good.

 

Plasma gun and chainsword. Gives each Vet 3 attacks each in close combat, which is not to be sneezed at.

 

Also, the sergeant of a Vet squad has 3 attacks base, which makes him a good candidate for a power-thingy of some sort or another.

 

 

 

Someone at GW ought to compare the cost of Intercessors to the cost of sniper Scouts. Sniper Scouts currently cost 15pts, and will cost 13. They have their special deployment, 36" range, can target characters, and can cause mortal wounds. Vs that, Intercessors have a 30" range, 2 wounds, 2 attacks, and a better armor save. I don't think Intercessors should cost much more than sniper Scouts, because their utility is comparable, but certainly not greater.

[BlackTriton]

But... then we would be able to field them in number's such that the enemy will have have a hard time dealing with them!.

We cannot have Marine be a horde army!!! Thats against the narative!

:P

 

Im actually exited for sniper scout.

They are super interesting for my Brigade im planning up.

[Berzul]

Speak for yourself!

 

I almost always field my army as a (Caliban) Green Tide!

 

GREEN WING IS BEST WING!

[Naaman10th]

So for whatever reason they didn't bring Ravenwing Apothecary, Ancient, Champion in line with the knights cost reduction. Sadly makes them even more useless :(

Was already hard to justify an apothecary over 2 extra black knights, now it gets even harder.

[Guest MistaGav]

It's the same thing with the Deathwing guys too, they didn't get a points reduction which is a missed opportunity. They all cost more than your average HQ choice now which is barmy!

[Berzul]

Wow, battlescribe jus updated in the cost reductions.

 

It has really gone down! I mean, if my math is right, my Battle Copany list is costing over 200 points less!

[Basteala]

Black Knights look really good now, especially with the Attack Squadron Stratagems (namely the +1 to hit a target wounded by another attack squadron unit). Future missions seem to be favoring mobility and objectives too, which will help RW. The plasma cannon points drop is really nice. I heard GW is trying to move away from castles, and this seems to ring true with Hellblasters staying the same, while the longer range, or mobile, competition went down.

 

These changes narrow the gap between the top and the bottom, but with better armies also going down in points (namely things like Guard), I'm not sold on how much better we've actually gotten.

 

But at least, with Black Knights and Ravenwing Detachment, we got something. Boy, I feel bad for Codex SM Players.

[Hantheman]

Anyone know the email to contact GW about FAQs and stuff. I want to ask why the ravenwing/deathwing characters didn't drop in price whilst the non-characters using same equipment did...