152 replies to this topic

[THUNDERFISTS]

This does create a problem for the battle cannon. It is now the most expensive gun you can equip a leman russ with. After the demolisher got a huge point reduction, it is now the most expensive gun to be used by the leman russ. It is still useful, but it begs a question. Is it worth taking a battle cannon over a basilisk or executioner when it's 2D6 shot (grinding advance) S8, -2AP, D3 damage? It gets the same number of shots, and strength as an overcharged executioner with an inferior AP and an inferior average damage output. The range is the only real utility it has,but that's beaten by the basilisk which shoots a S9 -3AP D3 damage round and it doesn't have to expose itself. With a 5 point reduction to the executioner and 10 points for 2 plasma sponsons, the battle cannon is obsolete.

 

Obsolete is a strong word. Now the mathematically inferior weapons are more in line by comparison, creating a more equal playing field for your weapon options. It's no longer BC all the time every time, at least not on initial reactions.

 

Battle Cannons are still the tippy top on math, and now you pay an appropriate cost for it in comparison to the others. 

[FallenSoldiers]

The Battlecannon relic weapon doing a flat 3 dmg is nice though.

[domsto]

I think after all this my List went actually down in Points^^
Not the +100p i feared in the first place.
I also love that the demolisher is now good costed.

Edited by domsto, 07 December 2018 - 07:26 PM.

[duz_]

Although I said the Shadowsword should go up earlier in the year, I took that back after IK dropped

 

It appears now to be 410 base  

[Shamansky]

The time i'm glad to be wrong...\

*crying*

[H311fi5h]

Although I said the Shadowsword should go up earlier in the year, I took that back after IK dropped

 

It appears now to be 410 base

 

Banesword for 370 looks interesting though.

For less than 1000 points you can get a Supreme Command with 3 Tank Commanders w/ plasma sponsons and heavy stubber (one taking the relic battle cannon), a Banesword and a Tech Priest. That's a scary amount of fire power.

[Level9red]

Broadly pleased by this, but a little sad that Elysian veterans are still 7 points. Couldn't they be 6? Please :-)

Also the forgeworld flyers r still overpriced, just have to use Valkyries as they seem cheaper.

[duz_]

It does make my decision to select a Shadowsword over a Hellhammer tougher now...

Annoyingly I started painting the former... now I guess Ill have to start painting up the other chassis sooner...

[HallofStovokor]

Although I said the Shadowsword should go up earlier in the year, I took that back after IK dropped

It appears now to be 410 base

I don't think that a 6 point increase on the shadowsword is too absurd. It's main gun is the most powerful weapon the guard can field. It is worth 40 more points than the banehammer. After all, the damn thing can 1 shot a titanic unit. Most people who would take it can find 6 points for it, especially with the drops in price for other war gear. The price reduction on the Banesword and banehammer on the other hand is really great. They're both 30 points less. Before a banehammer was so significantly weaker than the shadowsword that you would never choose to pick a banehammer over the shadowsword. With the gap in price now 40 points instead of 0 there's now a reason to pick the banehammer beyond number of shots.

[duz_]

6pts, I thought it was more like 60+? 

 

*Finally had a chance to check

It goes up 20? Unless there was a change to it in CA17 which I haven't got on me

 

The difference was smaller than I thought... hrmmm 

Still a good option for sure
 

[Level9red]

Looks like none of the forgeworld specific stuff changed, just the shared weapons.

[HallofStovokor]

After doing the math my current 2000 point list is about 106 points cheaper than before. If I drop a HK missile I can afford to add another basilisk to my list and be under 2000.

Edited by HallofStovokor, 07 December 2018 - 08:27 PM.

[HallofStovokor]

6pts, I thought it was more like 60+?

*Finally had a chance to check
It goes up 20? Unless there was a change to it in CA17 which I haven't got on me

The difference was smaller than I thought... hrmmm

Still a good option for sure

the shadowsword is currently 404 points. 410 is only 6 points more. The Banesword and banehammer are both currently 404 and are changing to 370.

[Chris521]

You're forgetting the 14 point for the twin heavy bolter on the Shadowsword.

[NatBrannigan]

I thought Yarrick was good before personally, now 30 cheaper! No Bullgryn price increase... We’ve done wel here chaps! Remember everyone else went down as well but I really think we’re stronger comparatively than before.

The best news is that there are now other Imperial units that can act as CP batteries at least as well as the “Loyal 32”. I’m thinking a minimum Ad Mech Battalion with maybe some Kastellans will be popping up.

Good result

[H311fi5h]

Wrote together a quick summary of point changes:

 

Units:

 

Spoiler

Armoured Sentinel 30 (-10)

Astropath 26 (-4)

Banehammer 370 (-20)

Banesword 370 (-20)

Chimera 60 (-15)

Deathstrike 125 (-30)

Doomhammer 400 (-20)

Hydra 85 (-15)

Manticore 125 (-10)

Officer of the Fleet 20 (-5)

Ogryns 24 (-6)

Scout Sentinel 30 (-5)

Servitors 5 (+3)

Shadowsword 410 (+20)

Stormlord 410 (-20)

Stormsword 370 (-20)

Tank Commander 142 (-25)

Valkyrie 100 (-10)

Veterans 5 (-1)

Wyrdvane Psykers 7 (-1)

 

Kell 40 (-10)

Yarrick 100 (-30)

Creed 55 (-25)

Nork 60 (-20)

Sly Marbo 55 (-10)

 

Wargear:

 

Spoiler

Augur Array 5 (-5)

Autocannon 10 (-2)

Chem Cannon 7 (-8)

Demolisher Cannon 20 (-20)

Eradicator Nova Cannon 15 (-10)

Exterminator autocannon 17 (-8)

Flamer 6 (-1)

Grenade Launcher 3 (-2)

Grenadier gauntlet 5 (-5)

Heavy Flamer 14 (-3)

Heavy Stubber 2 (-2)

Hellstrike Missiles 12 (-8)

Hotshot lasgun 0 (-1)

Hotshot pistol 0 (-1)

Medi-pack 5 (-5)

Meltagun (4+) 10 (-2)

Meltagun (3+) 14 (-3)

Missile Launcher 15 (-5)

Multilaser 5 (-5)

Multimelta 15 (-5)

Multiple Rocket Pod 8 (-3)

Plasma Cannon 10 (-5)

Plasma gun (3+) 11 (-2)

Servo-arm 0 (-12)

Taurox Battle Cannon 18 (-10)

Taurox Missile Launcher 30 (-20)

Twin Heavy Flamer 28 (-2)

Vanquisher Cannon 15 (-5)

[Mordian Glory]

Wrote together a quick summary of point changes:

 

Units:

 

Spoiler

Armoured Sentinel 30 (-10)

Astropath 26 (-4)

Banehammer 370 (-20)

Banesword 370 (-20)

Chimera 60 (-15)

Deathstrike 125 (-30)

Doomhammer 400 (-20)

Hydra 85 (-15)

Manticore 125 (-10)

Officer of the Fleet 20 (-5)

Ogryns 24 (-6)

Scout Sentinel 30 (-5)

Servitors 5 (+3)

Shadowsword 410 (+20)

Stormlord 410 (-20)

Stormsword 370 (-20)

Tank Commander 142 (-25)

Valkyrie 100 (-10)

Veterans 5 (-1)

Wyrdvane Psykers 7 (-1)

 

Kell 40 (-10)

Yarrick 100 (-30)

Creed 55 (-25)

Nork 60 (-20)

Sly Marbo 55 (-10)

 

Wargear:

 

Spoiler

Augur Array 5 (-5)

Autocannon 10 (-2)

Chem Cannon 7 (-8)

Demolisher Cannon 20 (-20)

Eradicator Nova Cannon 15 (-10)

Exterminator autocannon 17 (-8)

Flamer 6 (-1)

Grenade Launcher 3 (-2)

Grenadier gauntlet 5 (-5)

Heavy Flamer 14 (-3)

Heavy Stubber 2 (-2)

Hellstrike Missiles 12 (-8)

Hotshot lasgun 0 (-1)

Hotshot pistol 0 (-1)

Medi-pack 5 (-5)

Meltagun (4+) 10 (-2)

Meltagun (3+) 14 (-3)

Missile Launcher 15 (-5)

Multilaser 5 (-5)

Multimelta 15 (-5)

Multiple Rocket Pod 8 (-3)

Plasma Cannon 10 (-5)

Plasma gun (3+) 11 (-2)

Servo-arm 0 (-12)

Taurox Battle Cannon 18 (-10)

Taurox Missile Launcher 30 (-20)

Twin Heavy Flamer 28 (-2)

Vanquisher Cannon 15 (-5)

 

May the Emperor bless you, thank you!

[Mordian Glory]

My Steel Legion list just got 201pts cheaper!

 

Holy hell thats basically 2 free medium tanks!

Edited by Mordian Glory, 07 December 2018 - 08:50 PM.

[NatBrannigan]

Manticores went down? Now i’m Just confused...

[Lord Marshal]

I can safely say I'm pleasantly surprised. Granted, this won't help the "WHY DOES GW LOVE GUARD SO MUCH???" hysteria, but that wasn't going to end unless they went beyond Grey Knight levels of suck. 
 
The standouts for me would be the Armoured Sentinels. I'm not a lover of the unarmoured aesthetic, but they were such a sink if you took them.
 

Manticores went down? Now i’m Just confused...

Basilisks were a fair chunk cheaper and could be squadron'ed. Those Heavy Support slots, even in 8th, are pretty precious for Mono-Guard. I don't think Manticores benefit from the new Emperor's Wrath stuff which may well have factored into it. I'm more surprised Basilisk cost didn't get increased to be honest.

Edited by Lord Marshal, 07 December 2018 - 09:06 PM.

[Colonel Cross]

Sweet baby jesus.  I am stoked.  Points drops when I was expecting increases AND formations that look interesting for my Kasrkin??

[duz_]

Wrote together a quick summary of point changes:

Units:

Spoiler

Armoured Sentinel 30 (-10)
Astropath 26 (-4)
Banehammer 370 (-20)
Banesword 370 (-20)
Chimera 60 (-15)
Deathstrike 125 (-30)
Doomhammer 400 (-20)
Hydra 85 (-15)
Manticore 125 (-10)
Officer of the Fleet 20 (-5)
Ogryns 24 (-6)
Scout Sentinel 30 (-5)
Servitors 5 (+3)
Shadowsword 410 (+20)
Stormlord 410 (-20)
Stormsword 370 (-20)
Tank Commander 142 (-25)
Valkyrie 100 (-10)
Veterans 5 (-1)
Wyrdvane Psykers 7 (-1)

Kell 40 (-10)
Yarrick 100 (-30)
Creed 55 (-25)
Nork 60 (-20)
Sly Marbo 55 (-10)

Wargear:

Spoiler

Augur Array 5 (-5)
Autocannon 10 (-2)
Chem Cannon 7 (-8)
Demolisher Cannon 20 (-20)
Eradicator Nova Cannon 15 (-10)
Exterminator autocannon 17 (-8)
Flamer 6 (-1)
Grenade Launcher 3 (-2)
Grenadier gauntlet 5 (-5)
Heavy Flamer 14 (-3)
Heavy Stubber 2 (-2)
Hellstrike Missiles 12 (-8)
Hotshot lasgun 0 (-1)
Hotshot pistol 0 (-1)
Medi-pack 5 (-5)
Meltagun (4+) 10 (-2)
Meltagun (3+) 14 (-3)
Missile Launcher 15 (-5)
Multilaser 5 (-5)
Multimelta 15 (-5)
Multiple Rocket Pod 8 (-3)
Plasma Cannon 10 (-5)
Plasma gun (3+) 11 (-2)
Servo-arm 0 (-12)
Taurox Battle Cannon 18 (-10)
Taurox Missile Launcher 30 (-20)
Twin Heavy Flamer 28 (-2)
Vanquisher Cannon 15 (-5)

May the Emperor bless you, thank you!

Indeed!

Three cheers for H311fi5h:
Hip-hip-hip!

[Colonel Cross]

He is surely doing the Emperor's work.

 

I can't decide what I am most excited about. I have been rocking air assault/mech assault Catachans with demolishers rocking triple heavy flamers and Valks just for fun.  And now my list is going to be far cheaper! And I had been using flamers on infantry and missile launchers in my back line infantry units.  I rock Chimeras with autocannon turrets and heavy bolters and now they are 17 points cheaper.  That is amazing.  

 

Don't forget the Baneblade chassis is getting a 20pt drop due to the Demolisher cannon being reasonably priced now! (that is probably the biggest secret thus far I've seen)  

 

Scions are 1pt cheaper now due to hotshot guns decrease and their special weapons are cheaper as well.  I bet that is all I needed to finally use anything other than scion command squads.  I love the guard for options and being able to change my play style quickly just by list building.  This seems like I'm going to be having fun tinkering with lists for a long time.  

Edited by Colonel Cross, 07 December 2018 - 09:22 PM.

[Chris521]

Kinda strange that the Wyvern didn't get reverted from last year. At least the new detachment should help it out.

 

Also, at this rate, the Vanquisher should be usable in about 3 years.

[Mordian Glory]

Kinda strange that the Wyvern didn't get reverted from last year. At least the new detachment should help it out.

 

Also, at this rate, the Vanquisher should be usable in about 3 years.

 

To be fair that is pretty quick for the imperium

Edited by Mordian Glory, 08 December 2018 - 01:01 AM.