Leak discussion!

[techsoldaten]

Could not be more saddened about Chapter Approved. Listened to Winter's video where he confirmed there are no additional changes beyond points values.

 

This kept me up last night, looking at the changes to other armies (particularly Guard.) Grey Knights appear to be worse off due to points reductions in other armies, despite changes to our own. The difference for my own army amounts to just under 200 points, which is something but doesn't move the needle competitively.

 

A few things we can remain optimistic about:

 

- There should be a FAQ for Chapter Approved 2018. The book includes some points values (especially for Orks) that seem to be typos. Hoping GW acts on them and maybe that means something for GK players too.

 

- There's still supposed to be a Forgeworld book for Grey Knights and the Inquisition. We saw presentation slides about it detailing changes to vehicles. Perhaps there's some relief coming there.

 

But, honestly, GW has really put the screws to our army. Before CA, there was at least an option to include them as a detachment alongside an Imperial Guard force. It feels like now we would be crippling Guard by being a point-sink taking away from more effective options.

[Danarc]

No please. Stop deceive yourself. It has been more than one year that we are waiting for godot. “Maybe the next FAQ, maybe the first big FAQ, maybe the CA 2017, maybe next march the big FAQ 1, maybe the big FAQ 2... ah no they told us that well’have a playabne army on CA2018. Now we start this again?

 

I don’t want play this game again.

 

It seems clear. GW doesn’t care about GK and only want sell us other models. That is normal since GW is a company, but I don’t understand why mockering us. Big win for GK. mavaffanculo.

[HighMarshalAmp]

No please. Stop deceive yourself. It has been more than one year that we are waiting for godot. “Maybe the next FAQ, maybe the first big FAQ, maybe the CA 2017, maybe next march the big FAQ 1, maybe the big FAQ 2... ah no they told us that well’have a playabne army on CA2018. Now we start this again?

 

I don’t want play this game again.

 

It seems clear. GW doesn’t care about GK and only want sell us other models. That is normal since GW is a company, but I don’t understand why mockering us. Big win for GK. mavaffanculo.

 

Let's be honest, we're mostly bummed because we feel they had promised us massive changes.

But they kinda didn't...

At WH Community, this is what was said:

Grey Knights, too, have seen some sweeping points reductions to a bunch of core units, including Paladins and Purifiers, as well as the Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight. If you collect Grey Knights, you’ll have loads more flexibility when building your lists and may well find units you previously overlooked to be much more appealing.

And that's actually not far from what happened.

I myself had never heard anything about massive Smite changes from any official source.

 

Not great changes, but we didn't get screwed over half as badly as some people (including myself) actually feel.

[Danarc]

Honestly, I’m feel mocked because we are the worst army since 2 years and GW doesn’t care about it.

[skarn]

GK will become a viable army once again when we receive the primaris treatment in the next 2 or 3 years. Until then, you are going to pretty much lose every half competitive game you play.

[Corvus Fortis]

GK will become a viable army once again when we receive the primaris treatment in the next 2 or 3 years.

 

 

Or, most likely, will be squatted like BT.

[noigrim]

Looks like this box of termis will be my last gk purchase in a loong time. Go full guard

[Gaz1858]

GK won a large ITC tournament recently and ive done pretty well with them at 1500. They are competitive, just need to find out how best to utilise what you have

[Holier Than Thou]

GK won a large ITC tournament recently

Really? Where? When? How?

[Danarc]

 

GK will become a viable army once again when we receive the primaris treatment in the next 2 or 3 years.

 

 

Or, most likely, will be squatted like BT.

 

Probably.

 

GK won a large ITC tournament recently and ive done pretty well with them at 1500. They are competitive, just need to find out how best to utilise what you have

For GK list do you mean that list with only 3 GMDK as "GK" part?

Because that isn't a "GK win". It's an imperial soup win with a little GK part. 

[Holier Than Thou]

 

No please. Stop deceive yourself. It has been more than one year that we are waiting for godot. “Maybe the next FAQ, maybe the first big FAQ, maybe the CA 2017, maybe next march the big FAQ 1, maybe the big FAQ 2... ah no they told us that well’have a playabne army on CA2018. Now we start this again?

I don’t want play this game again.

It seems clear. GW doesn’t care about GK and only want sell us other models. That is normal since GW is a company, but I don’t understand why mockering us. Big win for GK. mavaffanculo.

 

 

Let's be honest, we're mostly bummed because we feel they had promised us massive changes.

But they kinda didn't...

At WH Community, this is what was said:

Grey Knights, too, have seen some sweeping points reductions to a bunch of core units, including Paladins and Purifiers, as well as the Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight. If you collect Grey Knights, you’ll have loads more flexibility when building your lists and may well find units you previously overlooked to be much more appealing.

And that's actually not far from what happened.

I myself had never heard anything about massive Smite changes from any official source.

 

Not great changes, but we didn't get screwed over half as badly as some people (including myself) actually feel.

That same article said Grey Knights were THE big winners.

 

So, yeah, they did lie.

[Gaz1858]

 

GK won a large ITC tournament recently

Really? Where? When? How?

In Australia with an army built around GMNDKs and Termies. People found it difficult to shift the termies from obj in cover given the rise of hordes. Less high ap weaponry.

 

GK can win. Theyre not the greatest dex but that doesnt mean you cant win. It just means you need to write lists your local tourneys arent able to deal with well

[STTAB]

Also GK primary win at STO 4 (ITC GT in Scotland).

 

I'm thinking there are two valid ways to go as a GK primary build.

 

1) leverage the resiliance and 2+ armour save of termination troops. If your whole army is hard to kill with ap0/ap-1 then lists that have a lot of anti horde will struggle.

 

2) leverage mobility. I'm thinking draigo (gating) + interceptors +stormraven(s) + xiphon. Can move together anywhere on the board rerolling all failed hits. Interceptors can screen flyers or flyers can screen interceptors.

 

My GK are already built for mobility as it's my preferred play style. I've been thinking about a FW xiphon for a while. Now at 220 points... Just need eBay to throw me a bone. Stromraven weapons took a little drop so worth considering again.

 

Obviously there are still problems but there are less now then there was.

 

Also, GK will probably get a specialist detachment at some point and there was talk that specialist detachments could contain new psychic powers as well as the strats/ warlord trait/ relic.

[HighMarshalAmp]

 

That same article said Grey Knights were THE big winners.

 

So, yeah, they did lie.

 

Erm... no, it doesn't.

I have really tried to find all the articles that made me hope for a little love for the Grey Knights so I could rant about it, but I have failed to find any official source saying it.

 

Sure, they never explicitly said GK weren't the big winners and let us believe everything would change. But when it comes down to it, we just believed our own hopes to be facts...

 

Edit: that's how the best conmen operate as well 

[Ninjoe42]

Sooo if any of you folk who think this is the end of your days playing Grey Knights want to start selling them off for cheap (since theyre garbage anyways) make sure you give your bros at B&C first dibs!

[Waking Dreamer]

Also GK primary win at STO 4 (ITC GT in Scotland).

 

I'm thinking there are two valid ways to go as a GK primary build.

 

1) leverage the resiliance and 2+ armour save of termination troops. If your whole army is hard to kill with ap0/ap-1 then lists that have a lot of anti horde will struggle.

 

2) leverage mobility. I'm thinking draigo (gating) + interceptors +stormraven(s) + xiphon. Can move together anywhere on the board rerolling all failed hits. Interceptors can screen flyers or flyers can screen interceptors.

 

My GK are already built for mobility as it's my preferred play style. I've been thinking about a FW xiphon for a while. Now at 220 points... Just need eBay to throw me a bone. Stromraven weapons took a little drop so worth considering again.

 

Obviously there are still problems but there are less now then there was.

 

Also, GK will probably get a specialist detachment at some point and there was talk that specialist detachments could contain new psychic powers as well as the strats/ warlord trait/ relic.

 

^ Oh yeah, the Xiphon. I've got an extra 250pts spare for my current list...and the Xiphon just got 20 points cheaper!

 

If your meta has a lot of mechanised Eldar, jet bikes, Tau battlesuits (Crisis suits got 30% cheaper) etc. Xiphon can potential do some serious work! Pointing at an opponent's Wave Serpent / aerial fighter and crippling it in one go, always feels good.

[Corvus Fortis]

I just looked at Cities of Death new rules leak and they look quite interesting. Hard Cover+Obscured mechanics limits shooting to a certain extent. Terminators will throw 3+ instead of 5+ while in hard cover against Plasma, and said plasma will be overheating on 1's and 2's. Too bad it is narrative only. But hopes that these rules will make it to matched play in the spring FAQ. 

[STTAB]

Just done a list with draigo, crowe, 3*5 strikes,1*10 interceptors, 2 xiphon and a stormraven. Allied to my faithful BA battalion of smash captain, librarian Dreadnought (now 142 points) and 3*5 scouts.

 

Just under 2k with new points.

 

How to pay for 2 forgeworld xiphons?

[Holier Than Thou]

 

That same article said Grey Knights were THE big winners.

So, yeah, they did lie.

 

Erm... no, it doesn't.

I have really tried to find all the articles that made me hope for a little love for the Grey Knights so I could rant about it, but I have failed to find any official source saying it.

 

Sure, they never explicitly said GK weren't the big winners and let us believe everything would change. But when it comes down to it, we just believed our own hopes to be facts...

 

Edit: that's how the best conmen operate as well :D

Oh dear, I’ve just gone to check and they’ve actually removed it. The part you quoted previously had a large print sub-headline stating “It’s good news for Grey Knights “ followed by a first paragraph stating the match points play testers were all in agreement that Grey Knights were the big winners in the points cuts. The fact they have actually removed that part of the article makes me think they actually did deliberately mislead us rather than simply misunderstanding that they hadn’t done enough.

[stuka06]

You'relooking for this picture/article

[Holier Than Thou]

You'relooking for this picture/article

Yes, exactly that. Am I right in saying it’s no longer on Warhammer Community? I’m not being blind, am I?

 

So it doesn’t say “THE” biggest winners but saying we are one massive winner when in fact pretty much everyone else was also a massive winner is a bit off.

[Biscuittzz]

 

 

Grey Knights, too, have seen some sweeping points reductions to a bunch of core units, including Paladins and Purifiers, as well as the Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight. If you collect Grey Knights, you’ll have loads more flexibility when building your lists and may well find units you previously overlooked to be much more appealing.

 

 

Since when were paladins, purifiers and the GNDK our core units? Last I checked core units were strikes, terminators and the normal NDK. And absolutely nothing has changed for them.

 

They only thing they got right was the part about some overlooked units being considered now. But not the ones stated above even with the drops. More so it's our support characters that have gotten a lot of help. BroCaps and Ancients are close to includes now. 

 

When a model is 240 points and is already an auto-include, what do they think will change if they drop him to 180.  GW are so out of touch they probably thought Draigo and Voldus weren't being taken at all.

[Danarc]

 

You'relooking for this picture/article

Yes, exactly that. Am I right in saying it’s no longer on Warhammer Community? I’m not being blind, am I?

So it doesn’t say “THE” biggest winners but saying we are one massive winner when in fact pretty much everyone else was also a massive winner is a bit off.

 

This afternoon I was looking for that article and I did’t find it. Do they really erased it? OMG. This is a confirmation of the greatest trolling of the year! Ahahahahahahah

 

 

 

Grey Knights, too, have seen some sweeping points reductions to a bunch of core units, including Paladins and Purifiers, as well as the Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight. If you collect Grey Knights, you’ll have loads more flexibility when building your lists and may well find units you previously overlooked to be much more appealing.

 

 

Since when were paladins, purifiers and the GNDK our core units? Last I checked core units were strikes, terminators and the normal NDK. And absolutely nothing has changed for them.

 

They only thing they got right was the part about some overlooked units being considered now. But not the ones stated above even with the drops. More so it's our support characters that have gotten a lot of help. BroCaps and Ancients are close to includes now. 

 

When a model is 240 points and is already an auto-include, what do they think will change if they drop him to 180. :huh: GW are so out of touch they probably thought Draigo and Voldus weren't being taken at all.

Give a terminator honor to this man.

[HighMarshalAmp]

You'relooking for this picture/article

Ha! There it is!

Thanks! Now I can rant in peace

Man, what a dick move...

 

 

Or, most likely, will be squatted like BT.

Frankly, my Templars are in a good place compared to my GKs. Nice Chapter Tactics, an exclusive unit (Crusader Squad) and probably the most flavorful Chapter in the Codex, for all that's worth.

 

If GK were to appear as another C:SM chapter, with Rites of Banishment as their Tactics, that would be a use for the models I could get behind.

Only the weapon options... how would the Nemesis Force weapons fit in?

[Biscuittzz]

 

 

GK won a large ITC tournament recently

Really? Where? When? How?

In Australia with an army built around GMNDKs and Termies. People found it difficult to shift the termies from obj in cover given the rise of hordes. Less high ap weaponry.

 

GK can win. Theyre not the greatest dex but that doesnt mean you cant win. It just means you need to write lists your local tourneys arent able to deal with well

 

 

GKs always do better at lower points limits. Most particularly at 1000 points as far as I know. This is due to the much better mileage we get from our psychic powers at these points, i.e. having 5/6 powers to cast when you only have 5/6 units will yield a much better return than 5/6 powers at 1750 or 2000 points where you could have upwards of 10 units or so. This is where we really see the Rule of One start to damage us.

 

When discussing army or faction effectiveness it's almost always assumed to be at 2000 or 1750 points, given that the majority of main tournaments are played at this scale.