Breaking back out the Guard, Couple of load out questions

[Guest]

Hello all, I have a couple of questions for you more experienced guard commanders out there. 

 

I've just returned my attention to my guard collection. These models were mostly acquired second hand in 6th edition. My original goal was to bring a loyal 32 up to my current painting standard, however, I've been enjoying painting them and wanted to re-paint the rest of my collection. I've also just gotten a great deal on a second small guard army that needs painting. My questions for you all is how to load out a couple of things.

 

I see a lot of people keeping their infantry squads very bare-bones with no special weapons. Does anyone have any reason why I should do anything different?

 

Sentinels: They seem to be the easiest way to fill out a brigade, and I have two of them. What weapon do you suggest? I'm reluctant to give them a heavy weapon that will be penalized if they move, so I was thinking that a heavy flamer might be the way to go. 

 

Leman russes: Is my current thinking that the battle tank is the way to go correct? I've also go a couple that are build as exterminators; these don't seem totally useless. What about sponsons?

 

I've also got a ton of heavy weapons squads. Im thinking a mix of mortars, las cannons, auto cannons and maybe a few heavy bolters. Thoughts?

 

Thanks in advance for your help. 

[mertbl]

I like running plasma gun lascannon infantry squads. They are expensive(relativly) but effective and can really lay out some hurt. I think the people running them without anything are moving them forward as roadblocks and speed bumps.

 

I run 3 scouts. I use autocannons. It is a 2 point upgrade over the multi laser until next Saturday. Then itll be a 5 point upgrade. Still worth it to me.

 

Battle cannons are probably the best. The plasma version is really nice. However if your meta is heavy in -1 and beyond it can get dangerous quick.

 

Heavy weapon squads will disappear quickly. Thay are too squishy without being hidden in an infantry squad.

[HallofStovokor]

Most of my infantry have grenade launchers as they are cheap and are great options for medium toughness (krak) or hordes (frag). I also have a couple of squads with flamers so they can can auto hit in overwatch.

 

I run scouts with autocannons. They're better than most people realize and if they get a wound through it causes 2 damage. Also they're a -1AP.

 

The three best variants are battle cannon, executioner and punisher. The exterminator is hot garbage. The demolisher will be great once chapter approved comes out.

 

HWS are great wastes of points in all situations except for the mortar squad. Park them in ruins out of sight and shoot infantry without fear of retaliation.

[Trickstick]

Honestly, a lot of points costs are changing when Chapter Approved 2018 comes out next week. So everything is up in the air right now. Still, there are a few guidelines that could help you out. What sort of force do you run? Different play styles need different weapons. For instance, I run a mobile Tallarn force, which lets me ignore some movement penalties. So I tend to load my vehicles with weapons, but ignore squad heavy weapons that would need to stay still. A Cadian force gets more use out of heavy weapons, with bonuses when staying still.

 

Some quick tips:

 

1. Heavy weapon squads are very fragile, so a good place for mortars that can hide. Other weapons would need to be visible, so get killed easily.

2. Plasma guns are great, although the other weapons may be worth considering as they are going down in points. Hard to know.

3. I can't really comment on sentinels, as I like moving them. Standing still they can be alright little turrets. I would avoid plasma, as it could kill them with a bad role.

4. Russes, however, are pretty great with plasma. It's dropping in cost too. I would say that all variants have their place. The exterminators were considered one of the lesser options but have also dropped in cost. Avoid vanquishers though. I love them but they are regarded as one of our worst weapons.

5. Sticking lascannons or autocannons in your squads is a good way to protect them. You lose out on some order efficiency but at least they wont die.

 

You picked an interesting time to consider weapon options. If you had asked any time in the last few months the advice would have been "see what happens in Chapter Approved". Now we are in the flux period where the new costs have been leaked and everyone is working out what to do. I guess the best thing to do would be to paint the things that you know are going to be needed, like loads of lasguns.

 

Oh, and you could always look into magnetising Russ weapons, so they can be swapped out. Means you can have whatever you like if you change your mind.

[Trickstick]

The exterminator is hot garbage.

 

I wouldn't go that far. It has a couple of targets it works well against, it is just a bit average against others. Most of the other guns are better than it at something. I'm going to have to go look at the charts again to remind me. Basically, it's not the best option but it isn't going to explode if you use it because it is what you have.

 

Edit: Hmmm, maybe I was wrong. They don't really seem good against anything. I thought they would be good against 2w models or something. I own 2 as well! I am considering converting them into annihilators though, as half the conversion work is done already.

[Guest]

Thanks so much for all the replies. I've got a lot to think about. 

 

Most of my infantry have grenade launchers as they are cheap and are great options for medium toughness (krak) or hordes (frag). I also have a couple of squads with flamers so they can can auto hit in overwatch.

HWS are great wastes of points in all situations except for the mortar squad. Park them in ruins out of sight and shoot infantry without fear of retaliation.

 

I think I'm going to use a couple of my spare bodies to have an assortment of flamers and grenade launchers available to add to squads. I've also got 6 mortar teams in the works. 

Honestly, a lot of points costs are changing when Chapter Approved 2018 comes out next week. So everything is up in the air right now. Still, there are a few guidelines that could help you out. What sort of force do you run? Different play styles need different weapons. For instance, I run a mobile Tallarn force, which lets me ignore some movement penalties. So I tend to load my vehicles with weapons, but ignore squad heavy weapons that would need to stay still. A Cadian force gets more use out of heavy weapons, with bonuses when staying still.

 

Some quick tips:

 

1. Heavy weapon squads are very fragile, so a good place for mortars that can hide. Other weapons would need to be visible, so get killed easily.

2. Plasma guns are great, although the other weapons may be worth considering as they are going down in points. Hard to know.

3. I can't really comment on sentinels, as I like moving them. Standing still they can be alright little turrets. I would avoid plasma, as it could kill them with a bad role.

4. Russes, however, are pretty great with plasma. It's dropping in cost too. I would say that all variants have their place. The exterminators were considered one of the lesser options but have also dropped in cost. Avoid vanquishers though. I love them but they are regarded as one of our worst weapons.

5. Sticking lascannons or autocannons in your squads is a good way to protect them. You lose out on some order efficiency but at least they wont die.

 

You picked an interesting time to consider weapon options. If you had asked any time in the last few months the advice would have been "see what happens in Chapter Approved". Now we are in the flux period where the new costs have been leaked and everyone is working out what to do. I guess the best thing to do would be to paint the things that you know are going to be needed, like loads of lasguns.

 

Oh, and you could always look into magnetising Russ weapons, so they can be swapped out. Means you can have whatever you like if you change your mind.

 

I'm thinking Cadian as those are the models that I have. I'm not apposed to trying out different regiments, but would be proxying the models. As I bought these models second hand and they're already built, magnetizing the Russes is not an option. I'll have to figure out what to do with the two exterminators I have.

[WarriorFish]

A special weapon is a good way to give an Infantry Squad a bit more punch and versatility, flamers and grenade launchers have long been my favourite there. They're even going down in points in Chapter Approved :tu: Sentinels are also getting a points drop, but this just encourages cheaper weapon choices - cheap and cheerful works best with them generally. Flamers are nice but as they're quite fragile you might struggle to get many shots in.

 

As to the regimental traitor don't worry about the models, the magic of counts as covers you if you make a DIY army easily ;)

[Trickstick]

Don't worry about which models you have for the doctrine, most people don't care. As long as you don't have several doctrines in your army that it is hard to tell apart, it is fine. I use Cadian models with Tallarn doctrine and have had no problems, although mine is my own regiment (His Most Glorious Tvashtan 422nd).

 

Every edition or codex has changed the balance of Russ loadouts, there is always a new one that is top of the pile. I would think carefully about how you approach conversions. It is not something that needs rushing into, exterminators are not great but who knows if in a couple of years they will be good or not? My advice would be to find someone who will let you proxy the turrets for a few games. See if you prefer the long range of a battlecannon or the dakka of a punisher, etc.

[Shamansky]

My weapon selection of infantry squads is determined by what i want the squad be doing on the table.

 

For example i want infantry to move around a lot, be a threat and distraction. Two variants: Tallarn with a flamer, or plasma-, or meltagun, Catachan with a flamer. No Heavy weapon teams included in both cases. 

I want a wall of bodies to keep my tanks away from HtH. I take Valahalla with no special weapons and put a Commander with the Valhallan Relic Pistol to keep the troops in line. I just want cheap meatshields. Their only purpose is to die for as long time as possible, so no upgrades or only the cheapest ones.

I want the wall of guns. I take Cadia with lascannon or missile launcher team and may be a plasmagun.

 

In short words, you need an answer for the question: 'why am i taking the unit?'

[Guest]

My weapon selection of infantry squads is determined by what i want the squad be doing on the table.

 

For example i want infantry to move around a lot, be a threat and distraction. Two variants: Tallarn with a flamer, or plasma-, or meltagun, Catachan with a flamer. No Heavy weapon teams included in both cases. 

I want a wall of bodies to keep my tanks away from HtH. I take Valahalla with no special weapons and put a Commander with the Valhallan Relic Pistol to keep the troops in line. I just want cheap meatshields. Their only purpose is to die for as long time as possible, so no upgrades or only the cheapest ones.

I want the wall of guns. I take Cadia with lascannon or missile launcher team and may be a plasmagun.

 

In short words, you need an answer for the question: 'why am i taking the unit?'

 

This is really solid advice. Thank you. I think im looking for the options to build toward, rather than a specific list right now. I've got more models on my to-do list than will ever see the table at once. But that really helps in that regard too. I'm beginning to solidify my plans.