Flamer/Heavy Flamer Veterans Unit

[ronster486]

With point reductions to Veterans, Flamers/Heavy Flamers, and Chimeras, I've been wondering if it's worth it to take them as an anti-horde, up close and personal component to my 500 point Cadian list. If I'm right, it comes to 170 points for a Veterans Unit with 3 Flamers and 1 Heavy Flamer, transported with a Chimera that has 2 Heavy Flamers. 

 

I figured if it works at the lower point level, it might be just as good to fill one of my elite spots as I try to make a 1000 point Brigade list.

[HallofStovokor]

Heavy flamer counts as a special weapon which means that you would need to drop a normal flamer. Truthfully, the veterans have the best BS of your ground units. Giving them special weapons that don't use their 3+ BS is a waste. I would give them meltaguns, plasma, snipers or grenade launchers. Take advantage of their superior shooting.

[librisrouge]

Heavy flamer counts as a special weapon which means that you would need to drop a normal flamer. 

Not according to my codex. They can just take a heavy flamer and three others can take a special.

 

The new formation makes me seriously consider this for some Catachan vets. Being able to disembark after movement means I can reliably get them in flamer range and then use the order to make those flamers actually hurt. I'm not sure on the numbers yet but it sounds fun as heck.

[The Black Guard]

Codex definitely allows 3 flamers and a heavy flamer in vet squad, it says:

 

"One other vet may replace their lasgun with a heavy flamer"

 

and

 

"Up to three other vets may replace their lasgun with item from Special Weapons list"

 

I think for vets taking flamers doesn't make them very effective BS wise but still would be fun and would work well with the Assault Company detachment.

 

Alternatively have you thought about taking three command squads full of flamers in a chimera (if you have 3 officers in the army of course), and it would also work with the Assault company stuff and means 12D6 of flaming goodness.

[Wassa]

Special Weapons Squads are designed for this, though only 3/6 men can carry flamers.

[Trickstick]

Special Weapons Squads are designed for this, though only 3/6 men can carry flamers.

 

I agree, flamers on bs 3+ models just seems like a waste to me. I even think that grenade launchers are better. I'm actually tempted by the old shotgun meltavets, because the formation let's you get within 6" for all the bonuses.

[Cap'm Heckus]

I’m actually looking at breaking out my old “3 melta, HF & shotgun” vet squad. They’ve been shelved for the last year and a half. I tend to use Scions in that roll nowadays, but a double HF or HB chimera full of vets could be fun again.

[ronster486]

The more I think about it, the more I think it’s not point effective, especially at the lower point levelsl be playing for awhile.

 

In fact, I’ll probably ditch the idea of an assault unit, at least at 500 points. Sticking to a gun line approach, maybe bringing Veterans with a Missile Launcher and 3 Grenade Launchers might be a better choice.

[mertbl]

I've thought about this little combo as well. 3d6 flamers and a d6 heavy flamer, could be amazing or it could end up with 4 shots. Hard to tell.

[The Black Guard]

Would it not be more point effective to bring 3 command squads with flamers than a veteran squad with flamers in a chimera?

[adamantium_wang]

The problem with a 3x flamer squad in my mind is you can get 3d6 S4 shots from a mortar HWS. You don't get auto hits but you've also got a range much greater than 8" that didn't even need LOS.

[Diagramdude]

A flamer squad can run up and zap an enemy HQ or contest an objective in a ruin that the mortars can't. Plus mortar is heavy slot, vets compete with other elite slots in most brigades. 

[domsto]

even with the point drop i think flamers on Infantry are still not worth it.

The Veterans will most certain die before they get into range. we are still talking about T3 5+ save Models here. Even with the protection of the Chimera i think they wont get a chance to fire their Flamers.

[sairence]

That then also raises the question of whether it's worth bringing a Chimera just to deliver suicide Flamers. In that situation you're again better off with 2 SWS and 6 regular Flamers.

[Wassa]

Don't forget to order them to Burn Them Out if Catachans.

 

They can reroll the number of shots from flamers and heavy flamers, pretty brutal for 3 or 4 flamers.

 

It also then removes their cover save for that shooting phase.

[Tirak]

Flamers are still too expensive so long as they're so short ranged, however Burn them Out is going to make Catachan flamers a possibly important component moving forward because of the new cover rules. Stripping that -1 to hit is going to be critical to follow up with. A pair of Command Squads in a Chimera with a Company Commander and your pick of auxiliary will be enough to keep them on the field long enough to actually do the burning... for one turn. Makes you wish the Chimera could carry 13 instead of 12 so we could cram in 2 SWSs instead with the Company commander, but them's the breaks.

[Trickstick]

...new cover rules.

 

New cover rules? I know that there are some new cityfight things coming in, but they are only going to be limited to those missions right? Did I miss a thing?

[Rommel44]

Vets becoming a lot cheaper makes them a must have for Special Weapons such Plasma and Melta's. Flamers on them is a waste of the BS 3+ imo.

[librisrouge]

Vets becoming a lot cheaper makes them a must have for Special Weapons such Plasma and Melta's. Flamers on them is a waste of the BS 3+ imo.

I think the only time this is justified is if you're taking them to specifically run 3 flamers and a heavy flamer. 3 flamers can be done just as good with a special weapon squad and cheaper to boot. They occupy a weird place where their BS, which you pay a point for, won't benefit the weapons you're taking them for but you can fit the most of said weapons into this squad over any others (4 in total) allowing you to achieve critical mass but without losing the room in a chimera for an officer (which two special weapon squads hedge out.)

[Gothical]

As with many others, I feel Flamers are wasted on Veterans. However, I am very tempted to add a Heavy Flamer into my 3x Meltagun/1x Power Fist/Shotguns squad, perhaps bundled into a 2xHF Chimera. It was a unit I loved in the last Codex (albeit with Demo Charge and Meltabombs), so that might just be the nostalgia talking, but at 6" they would be able to split their firepower between both infantry and tanks.