Chimeras post Chapter Approved 2018

[Rommel44]

With the old reliable Chimera getting a significant points drop that was much needed, I plan to go through with my Mechanized IG army, but have some questions before diving in. Basically:

 

* Best option for Turret Weapons?

* Best option for the Hull Weapon?

* Best Regiment/Regimental Rules for Chimeras?

* Hvy. Stubber or Storm Bolter worth taking as Sponsor Weapons?

 

Feel free to share your own personal thoughts and opinions and if you plan to field any in your army, share how you will do so and what else you will utilize to support them.

[Tokugawa]

First question: how do your local meta accept FW index units?

 

Turret twin-Heavybolters and Autocannon are solid choices, but they can't be find in Codex.

[Rommel44]

First question: how do your local meta accept FW index units?

 

Turret twin-Heavybolters and Autocannon are solid choices, but they can't be find in Codex.

Preferably strictly GW for now mate. Am aware of the FW options but I can't use them in Tournaments.

[HallofStovokor]

I'm a fan of hull mounted heavy flamer and a heavy bolter turret. The multi-laser is fine, but most infantry is t3-t4. You don't really need a s6 weapon to wound a MEQ, but the AP is more useful.

[domsto]

I think the best Regiment for Chimeras are Tallarn. Moving and shooting without the -1 to hit for Heavy is pretty great.

For weapons i would go with a double heavy Bolter build but with the much needed point reduction to Heavy flamer, a hull mounted HF could also work 

[Shamansky]

I think the best Regiment for Chimeras are Tallarn. Moving and shooting without the -1 to hit for Heavy is pretty great.

For weapons i would go with a double heavy Bolter build but with the much needed point reduction to Heavy flamer, a hull mounted HF could also work 

I think Tallarn is best for everything that needs to move and has no means to mitigate  -1 to-hit penalty. 

 

 

Consiidering heavy flamers, I do not agry that they're the best option, as it was presumed at the start of 8th edition. Heavy bolters are the best weapon for Chimera now, as seems to me. Yes, Heavy flamers are auto-hitting and potentially can inflict more damage. But what is average result on D6? 3-4. You need Catachan doctrine to use the potential better. The range of heavy flamer is just 8", you need to be very close to enemy and you won't be able to use it for Overwatch in circumstances where charge move starts beyond that range. It often will not have targets at the start of the game. If you want a flamer tank, why not take Hellhound? 

So in my opinion Heavy bolter is much more universal, and also cheaper than Heavy flamer. Add pintle mounted Heavy stubber and you have pretty much dakka to make some save rolls fail and for a reasonable price.

[Trickstick]

First question: how do your local meta accept FW index units?

 

Turret twin-Heavybolters and Autocannon are solid choices, but they can't be find in Codex.

 

Bear in mind that the Gryphonne pattern didn't get a price drop, so it really isn't worth considering. The twin bolter turret was nice but is too expensive now.

 

Personally I would go for bolter/multilaser simply for it being the cheapest version. I guess double bolter is also good but I don't mind using the multilaser to save 3 points. I have old style chimeras with fixed multilasers though, so that probably colours my decision.

 

I think that a specialist Emperor's Blade detachment is a must-take for using chimeras. The ability to disembark after moving is really powerful, enhanced overwatch is ok and the warlord trait to use orders from inside a chimera is also good. I'm considering a small 2-3 chimera mech force to back up a mainly armoured spearhead.

[Toxichobbit]

But what is average result on D6? 3-4.

 

There's no such thing as an average on a D6. A 3 or 4 is just as likely as any other number.

 

With regards to the heavy flamer, it should, over the course of a game (or multiple games if you want a bigger sample size) out-perform a heavy bolter in number of hits. That's because a heavy bolter has 3 shots while a heavy flamer has D6. So you have a 33.3% chance of getting less shots than the heavy bolter (1-2), a 16.6% chance of getting an equal amount of shots (3) and a 50% chance of getting more shots (4-6). So a 66% chance of getting equal or more hits than a heavy bolter. In addition to that, it auto-hits, which not only takes the chance at hitting from 50% to 100%, but also ignores the penalty for moving and makes Overwatch actually threatening. Taking just those two things into account, the heavy flamer is clearly superior as it will get significantly more hits over the course of a game (more shots and they auto hit).

 

However, the big downside of the heavy flamer is it's range. Over 8" it does nothing, while the heavy bolter continues to perform up to 36".

 

I think then there's no clear winner and it depends on what you intend to do with the Chimera. If you intend to quickly close on the enemy (for example, a squad with melta or flamer weapons) then the heavy flamer should get in range and perform well. If you are using Catachan doctrine and intend to make use of the +1 str on your infantry, then consider the heavy flamer for the re-rolls as you'll be playing at close range anyway. If you are using Tallarn doctrine then ignoring the -1 to hit for moving combined with the increased range of the heavy bolter makes it very strong. For general use, the heavy bolter is the most versatile, even though it's out-performed by the heavy flamer in ideal circumstances.

 

Personally, I'd go with the heavy bolter on the majority of my Chimeras as it's the most versatile of the three weapon choices and can do something at all of the Chimera's engagement ranges. I'd only take heavy flamers on Chimeras where I had a specific plan to quickly close with the enemy and knew I could get it into range, otherwise even with a 3 shot limit and -1 to hit for moving, the heavy bolter will always be better.

 

 

If you want a flamer tank, why not take Hellhound?

If you want a heavy bolter tank, why not take a Punisher? The answer is in both cases that you don't want a tank, but a transport and are trying to optimise the armament. Comparisons like the Hellhound and various Russ builds are irrelevant because OP is asking about arming a transport, not about which is the best flame or bolter vehicle.

[domsto]

The short range of the Flamers is one of the reasons i allways say NO to flamers.

But they can have its use on a Transporter. If the enemy Charges you and surround the Chimera you basically lost.

With a flamer on it, he might not charge it or maybe lose some models.

But in most cases a Heavy Flamer isn't worth it still.

[Trickstick]

I don't like the idea of a flamer chimera mainly because of the range. The enemy only has to attempt an 8" charge to make your expensive weapons useless. There is some merit to the fact that they may fail more charges by trying to do 8", but I don't know if that would be worth it. Also, flamers do not work well with the new Blade overwatch stratagem. Your transport is likely to be behind the charged unit, making the 8" even more of a problem. Plus, always hitting on 4+ is useless to a flamer.

 

I know this thread is about chimeras, but has anyone considered the taurox? 3 points cheaper and comes with dual autocannon, which is a much better loadout. -1T but faster. Smaller model so easier to hide or get cover. The biggest disadvantage is only 10 capacity, so you can't just put officers in with squads anymore. This is the first time I have looked at a taurox and actually considered it.

[Rommel44]

Taurox has its uses but in my experience it gets owned really quickly due to it being -1T and while Autocannon's are nice, the extra firepower put out by the Chimera just trumps the Taurox and it is tough enough to actually stay around.

[librisrouge]

It depends on what you want the vehicle to do, really. Do you:

 

1) Want them to be pure transport?

Then keep it cheap. Multilaser turret and heavy bolter hull. Less point spent on stuff that isn't the unit's job and you get to just be happy to achieved something.

 

2) What them to join the assault?

Then load up on flamers. Two of them got cheaper than the dark, dreary pre-CA world we lived in and are entirely justified if your chimera will be running hoi polloi right at your foe. It gives them great overwatch and one round of shooting often justifies the cost. Plus, they don't need to worry too much about getting damaged either. Give this setup a storm bolter if you have spare points.

 

3) Want them to sit back on objectives while protecting infantry?

Hull heavy bolter and turret heavy bolter or multilaser. The turret weapon is basically to taste or whatever your model has. S6 isn't too great over S5 but AP -1 makes a big difference. Plus, two heavy bolters can roll their dice together, which is nice and speeds things up. However, you're playing 3 pts for worse strength and better AP. Honestly, not a huge difference and I wouldn't sweat it too much. Give this setup a heavy stubber for greater range, maybe a hunter killer missile. Maybe.

[Toxichobbit]

2) What them to join the assault?

Then load up on flamers. Two of them got cheaper than the dark, dreary pre-CA world we lived in and are entirely justified if your chimera will be running hoi polloi right at your foe. It gives them great overwatch and one round of shooting often justifies the cost. Plus, they don't need to worry too much about getting damaged either. Give this setup a storm bolter if you have spare points.

 

It might also be worth considering Track Guards on that loadout so that damage doesn't affect either the movement or accuracy of the Chimera. It'd help it's primary job of transporting something into close range and keep the heavy flamers relevant for longer. I wouldn't run many like this though because the cost would add up quickly. 

[MARK0SIAN]

I’m a bit confused about your question regarding the regiment for the chimeras. Unless you’re willing to change the regiment for your entire force you’re kind of stuck with the regiment you already chose for your army and if you haven’t already chosen one I wouldnt make the choice based on what works best for chimeras.

 

Remember you can’t mix different regiments in the same detachment or they lose their regimental doctrine which means they wouldn’t be tallarn chimeras anymore anyway.

 

If you haven’t gone tallarn for everything else you’d have to create a separate detachment just to make it tallarn and put the chimeras in that. As a dedicated transport, you may only take one for each other selection in the detachment, meaning that extra chimera detachment would have to have an additional unit in it for every chimera you wished to take. The points would rack up fast just to give your transports a specific regiment keyword.

 

I’d just stick with whatever regiment you want for your main army, if it’s tallarn that works out great but don’t let the chimeras dictate your regiment :)

[Gothical]

Personally I like dual-HB Chimeras because I think they look great, and I have never been a fan of the Multilaser (though haven't used it in 8th to be fair). Dual-HF is certainly a consideration, because I mostly use Chimeras to transport units to objectives so being able to "counter-charge" a unit threatening the squad on the objective could be handy. Previously was far too expensive though, now it might be a possibility.

 

 

I know this thread is about chimeras, but has anyone considered the taurox? 3 points cheaper and comes with dual autocannon, which is a much better loadout. -1T but faster. Smaller model so easier to hide or get cover. The biggest disadvantage is only 10 capacity, so you can't just put officers in with squads anymore. This is the first time I have looked at a taurox and actually considered it.

 

I was planning on using the Taurox for transporting regular squads as it is cheaper and faster whilst brings reasonable firepower, then a Chimera for a Lieutenant and Command Squad so I can have a Special Weapon loaded squad and the opportunity to use Mobile Command Vehicle stratagem (T7 W10 Sv3+ Officer is handy right on the front line where the metal meets the meat).

[Trickstick]

...a Chimera for a Lieutenant and Command Squad so I can have a Special Weapon loaded squad and the opportunity to use Mobile Command Vehicle stratagem...

 

If you use the new Emperor's Blade detachment in Vigilus, you can give a bonus warlord trait to a non-warlord officer. The Blade one gives the same benefit as that stratagem, except permanently and only costs 1cp (+1 for the formation itself, although that has other benefits). The advantage, other than being permanent, is that it works equally well in chimera and taurox. So you have the option to take either, if you like.

 

Of course, that depends on if game groups use the formations.

[Galron]

Twin heavy flamers. I play Catachan and use them to move troops in close so they earn their points.

[Shamansky]

 

But what is average result on D6? 3-4.

 

There's no such thing as an average on a D6. A 3 or 4 is just as likely as any other number.

 

With regards to the heavy flamer, it should, over the course of a game (or multiple games if you want a bigger sample size) out-perform a heavy bolter in number of hits. That's because a heavy bolter has 3 shots while a heavy flamer has D6. So you have a 33.3% chance of getting less shots than the heavy bolter (1-2), a 16.6% chance of getting an equal amount of shots (3) and a 50% chance of getting more shots (4-6). So a 66% chance of getting equal or more hits than a heavy bolter. In addition to that, it auto-hits, which not only takes the chance at hitting from 50% to 100%, but also ignores the penalty for moving and makes Overwatch actually threatening. Taking just those two things into account, the heavy flamer is clearly superior as it will get significantly more hits over the course of a game (more shots and they auto hit).

 

However, the big downside of the heavy flamer is it's range. Over 8" it does nothing, while the heavy bolter continues to perform up to 36".

 

I think then there's no clear winner and it depends on what you intend to do with the Chimera. If you intend to quickly close on the enemy (for example, a squad with melta or flamer weapons) then the heavy flamer should get in range and perform well. If you are using Catachan doctrine and intend to make use of the +1 str on your infantry, then consider the heavy flamer for the re-rolls as you'll be playing at close range anyway. If you are using Tallarn doctrine then ignoring the -1 to hit for moving combined with the increased range of the heavy bolter makes it very strong. For general use, the heavy bolter is the most versatile, even though it's out-performed by the heavy flamer in ideal circumstances.

 

Personally, I'd go with the heavy bolter on the majority of my Chimeras as it's the most versatile of the three weapon choices and can do something at all of the Chimera's engagement ranges. I'd only take heavy flamers on Chimeras where I had a specific plan to quickly close with the enemy and knew I could get it into range, otherwise even with a 3 shot limit and -1 to hit for moving, the heavy bolter will always be better.

 

 

If you want a flamer tank, why not take Hellhound?

If you want a heavy bolter tank, why not take a Punisher? The answer is in both cases that you don't want a tank, but a transport and are trying to optimise the armament. Comparisons like the Hellhound and various Russ builds are irrelevant because OP is asking about arming a transport, not about which is the best flame or bolter vehicle.

 

You're telling the same thing as me with more words. What's the point?

[HallofStovokor]

On the subject of heavy flamer over heavy bolter, I think that it depends on how you use your chimera. If you're planning on using it to pop shots most of the game 2 heavy bolters is the optimal weapon choice. If you use your chimera more aggressively, then the choice of heavy flamers becomes an effective but expensive choice. Me personally, I'm taking a chimera with heavy flamer hull and Heavy Bolter turret. I use mine to carry my vets into melta range. Once the vets are dismounted I get the chimera in flamer range so I have a better shot of getting overlapping fields of fire. I would say that 2 heavy flamers would be more effective, but I don't like the idea of not shooting shooting with a model for 1 to 2 turns while it gets in range.

[Colonel Cross]

I use my Chimeras to dump baby Ogryns into the enemy lines.  So I usually just advance them and pop smoke turn 1 anyway.  Then I use them like bumper cars to eat overwatch after that.  Eventually they'll shoot something lol

[Toxichobbit]

 

You're telling the same thing as me with more words. What's the point?

 

 

The point is that some of what you said was inaccurate, so I was correcting it. Inaccuracies in unit evaluation isn't going to help people determine the value of units, so even if we agree in the evaluation it's important to make sure the information used to get there is accurate.

[Wassa]

I don't like the idea of not shooting shooting with a model for 1 to 2 turns while it gets in range.

 

Do people actually shoot with a Chimera while it has troops inside it?

 

I've always thought they'd advance in to get more distance and then pop smoke first turn for the -1 to hit.

[The Titanz0r]

 

I don't like the idea of not shooting shooting with a model for 1 to 2 turns while it gets in range.

 

Do people actually shoot with a Chimera while it has troops inside it?

 

I've always thought they'd advance in to get more distance and then pop smoke first turn for the -1 to hit.

 

 

I've seen it put like this. It's not necessary to speed up right away in the first turn. It's okay to take a turn to unload a volley with all your guns, especially those in the chimeras. You figure, your opponent is trying to move his units into position. So you can take the first turn to see what he's doing, where he's trying to go, and you can bring all your guns to bear. Then, you can move up and go where your units are needed.

 

Especially considering that many of the missions don't require holding the objectives until the final round, it's not necessary to take and hold them immediately. I was able to pull a win out of a few games this way, as I ignored some objectives for a couple turns, allowing me to bring those units' weapons against my opponent's units that would otherwise threaten an objective later.

 

Half a dozen heavy bolters, plus as many lasgun arrays, all firing at once is nothing to scoff at. Factor in the handful of Leman Russ tanks and their weapons you've most likely got, and that's a hell of an opening volley. Don't forget that the two lasgun arrays only require 'a unit' to be embarked to fire them. One platoon leader, astropath, orphaned sergeant or special weapons team member, or whatever can fire all six of those lasgun shots (twelve within rapid fire range).

[TheShredder]

Regarding Chimeras, what do you actually put inside them?
- Infantry Squads are an obvious choice (being basically mandatory), but they don't really feel worth transporting. Especially when the transport costs more than they do.

- Veterans are possible and might even be worth taking now, though they're stuck in the Elite slot and pay extra for their weapons. 
- Special Weapon Squads can take 3 special weapons, and you can fit 2 such units in a Chimera (albeit leaving no room for characters). Though, as with Veterans, they're Elites.
- Command Squads can take 4 special weapons, and you can have 2 or even 3 in a Chimera. However, I find myself wondering whether Scion Command Squads would be better - as that way you're at least guaranteed a turn of shooting with them.
- Then you've got stuff like Ogryns and the like.

 

Any thoughts?

[Feral_80]

Go big or go home. I am planning to field a mobile, decently aggressive force made up of 2 Chimeras (all-flamer if Catachans, all-bolters if Tallarn) holding:

 

Chimera 1: Officer, 10 vets, with plasma or possibly melta now

Chimera 2: 2x special weapon squads, 3x plasma + 3x flamer (if Catachan) or just all plasma

 

And Chimera 1 also has room for an extra character, which might be a punchy Lord Commissar or a Psyker of some sort.

There are ways to pack even more special weapons in there, using Command Squads, but that tends to get a little too expensive for my tastes.

 

The Chimeras will be supported by 2x Hellhounds and 3x Sentinels, and why not Scions from Valkyries.

 

Static AM gunlines are dead, and they were not that funny anyway to begin with.