Primaris-only Deathwatch post-CA?

[Prot]

No worries I just wanted to be sure I had a clue about what I was talking about.

 

I’m trying to keep my Primaris in my list fir a game tonight. Should be interesting.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Don’t hit the quote button a repost half the forum content to blurt one brief sentence.

 

I have a game tomorrow versus one of the top players in my meta. I’m ready to rawknroll.

[Lemondish]

Someone's grumpy ;)

 

Fixed it for you, Orange.

 

Back on track - had a practice game with a mate using the CA points changes. Had to heavily proxy so it went forever, but I think I like the new points costs for Repulsors and Redemptors.

[Vel'Cona]

Back on track - had a practice game with a mate using the CA points changes. Had to heavily proxy so it went forever, but I think I like the new points costs for Repulsors and Redemptors.

 

Massively agreed on the second.  Very excited to get the Bigger Dreads back on the table! :D

[Raven1]

I think in a pure primaris army or at least on with some primaris units a dominus aegis is worth a go.

[Lemondish]

I think in a pure primaris army or at least on with some primaris units a dominus aegis is worth a go.

Can't run Dominus in a pure Primaris army - you'll need at least one mini marine HQ with a storm shield.

[CCE1981]

I played Primaris before CA, with Forge World support in the form of 3x Twin-Lascannon Mortis Contemptor Dreadnoughts for anti-tank and a Relic Leviathan with 2x Stormcannon Arrays, with a ton of success. After Chapter Approved 2018 I now have 224 more points to play with and am in the weird position of figuring out what to add.

[durdle-durdle]

So for intercessors: bolt rifles (30” rapid fire 1 ap-1) or auto bolt rifles (24” assault 2 ap0)?

 

I keep changing my opinion here. My bolt rifles deep strike in and delete a squad with the ap-2 shells (for -3) but then seem to struggle to get in close to rapid fire again, because my opponent backs away from them. The auto rifle on the other hand can use the ap-2 shells and still double tap up to 18” versus 12”. Often I end up using the -1 shells to get the extra range to shoot twice, and I’m not sure if that just makes it a wash, since they would have the same range and ap in that case.

 

Just wondering what everyone else thinks. I have 20 bolt rifle marines, but frequently end up wishing they had auto bolters.

[Lemondish]

So for intercessors: bolt rifles (30” rapid fire 1 ap-1) or auto bolt rifles (24” assault 2 ap0)?

 

I keep changing my opinion here. My bolt rifles deep strike in and delete a squad with the ap-2 shells (for -3) but then seem to struggle to get in close to rapid fire again, because my opponent backs away from them. The auto rifle on the other hand can use the ap-2 shells and still double tap up to 18” versus 12”. Often I end up using the -1 shells to get the extra range to shoot twice, and I’m not sure if that just makes it a wash, since they would have the same range and ap in that case.

 

Just wondering what everyone else thinks. I have 20 bolt rifle marines, but frequently end up wishing they had auto bolters.

I absolutely love the autos for Intercessors, especially when an Aggressor is added to the mix.

 

You don't really need these particular units to deep strike, either. They're highly mobile already by virtue of being able to advance without penalty, and they will achieve the same profile at 18" as the double tap rifles will. They'll also have a much easier time staying in that range as well.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I always take auto bolters. Being able to advance and still shoot can be a big deal.

[Raven1]

Outside of DW, i would be wary of the autobolt rifle, but with SIA and mixed squads i think it is the best choice unless your mixing with Hellblasters.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yeah of course it works because of the Aggressor.

[vigitant]

I typically run rifles, and use them on more elite targets.  but ive got storm bolter veterans doing 30" doubletap duty.

In an all-primaris list, I'd advise running auto with 1-3 bolt aggressors.  if you go for more aggressors, throw in a bolt inceptor so they dont get locked down in melee.

I've heard the new price point on the primaris vehicle is no longer unusably :cussty, so that might make a couple msu auto intercessors in a box pretty good.  or 3-4 primaris hq's and a squad.  Not competitive by any means, but not :cuss tier.

[Lemondish]

I typically run rifles, and use them on more elite targets.  but ive got storm bolter veterans doing 30" doubletap duty.

 

In an all-primaris list, I'd advise running auto with 1-3 bolt aggressors.  if you go for more aggressors, throw in a bolt inceptor so they dont get locked down in melee.

 

I've heard the new price point on the primaris vehicle is no longer unusably :cussty, so that might make a couple msu auto intercessors in a box pretty good.  or 3-4 primaris hq's and a squad.  Not competitive by any means, but not tier.

 

The thing about Repulsors is that this mantra kind of exists:

 

1 is none

2 is some

 

(credit Ishagu lol)

 

It's not really that simple, because you don't actually need 2 Repulsors to make use of the unit - you just need something else to confuse target priority. The idea is that you need some form of target saturation so that the enemy has to make a difficult decision on which targets to focus on.

 

Thanks to CA it has definitely dropped a fair amount of points, but it's still a hefty price to pay without designing your list around trying to maximize it, which in turn requires you to add units that might help confuse target priority. Soon enough you find that the list you had in mind is now completely taken over by heavy armoured units and has lost what you originally planned. I think that's the biggest drawback for it, and for those not enamored with the model it's a big issue. I think it's a sharp looking kit with a lot of flexibility. Who needs early board control when you have the mobility to deploy or redeploy at will and the shooting to put a dent into any screen?

 

I've seen a few Deathwatch ones in the wild and I will say that the black and red is a really good look for them. A pity they don't get any bonus from Mission Tactics (outside of the Tome) or SIA, though. 

[BrotherAetherick]

 

I've seen a few Deathwatch ones in the wild and I will say that the black and red is a really good look for them. A pity they don't get any bonus from Mission Tactics (outside of the Tome) or SIA, though. 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the Tome gives missions tactics to units that don't inherently have mission tactics (aka metal boxes)

[vigitant]

 

 

I've seen a few Deathwatch ones in the wild and I will say that the black and red is a really good look for them. A pity they don't get any bonus from Mission Tactics (outside of the Tome) or SIA, though. 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the Tome gives missions tactics to units that don't inherently have mission tactics (aka metal boxes)

 

 

I just learned this now, looking it up, but it works RAW.

 

Given the wording, you can even give it your existing tactic through tome.  It applies the effect of the chosen or existing mission tactic to any DW unit from your army within 6" of tome.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

My Fortis Kill Team tends to be a distraction Carnifex but that means the opponent is not shooting something else.

[BrotherAetherick]

 

 

 

I've seen a few Deathwatch ones in the wild and I will say that the black and red is a really good look for them. A pity they don't get any bonus from Mission Tactics (outside of the Tome) or SIA, though. 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the Tome gives missions tactics to units that don't inherently have mission tactics (aka metal boxes)

 

 

I just learned this now, looking it up, but it works RAW.

 

Given the wording, you can even give it your existing tactic through tome.  It applies the effect of the chosen or existing mission tactic to any DW unit from your army within 6" of tome.

 

 

As much as I would like it to be, I'm not sure if that's the case, although the wording is very open to interpretation.

 

Mission tactics is an ability given to Infantry, Bikers, Dreads in Deathwatch detachments. On page 94 it says: "Units with this ability gain a bonus during the battle depending on which Mission Tactics they are currently employing... blah blah on ways to change it.. As long as a tactic is active, it affects all units in your army that have the Mission Tactics ability"

 

Then there's a table showing the different tactics and their related effect, which are their corresponding reroll 1's to wound.

 

The Tome of Ectoclades says you can apply either the effects of the active mission tactic or the one chosen for the tome for DW units within 6". There's no mention of it giving the Mission Tactics ability to units without mission tactics. So even if the tanks in the aura are affected by either tactic, without actually having the Mission Tactics ability I don't think you can reroll 1's.

 

Really needs a FAQ but with GW hating rhinos for some reason I would assume RAI it doesn't work. (DW fire raptors would be pretty cool otherwise)

[Lemondish]

You know, that's a pretty compelling argument in favour of the Tome of Ectoclades not applying to units without the Mission Tactics ability. That's a huge bummer, though. 

 

Looks like that relic is retired for my uses - up on the shelf next to the Thief of Secrets now lol So many other, better relics. 

[vigitant]

RAW i'd still say it'd have to be proscriptive to stop it effecting vehicles.  RAI?  Likely not.  Intended to disallow?  I dont think so, but maybe.  We'd need an errata.
Our tactic has always been a bit weird to me.  We dont get lieutenants, but we also dont have to take them for reroll 1's to wound.

With the points drops i think theres some fun lists to be had their, but probably not optimal lists. 

[Lemondish]

RAW i'd still say it'd have to be proscriptive to stop it effecting vehicles.  RAI?  Likely not.  Intended to disallow?  I dont think so, but maybe.  We'd need an errata.

Our tactic has always been a bit weird to me.  We dont get lieutenants, but we also dont have to take them for reroll 1's to wound.

 

With the points drops i think theres some fun lists to be had their, but probably not optimal lists. 

 

I see that as a bit of a disadvantage. I'd love to take a cheaper HQ. This is in an army with expensive HQ options, but this one also provides a buff more inclusive than mission tactics, even if its limited by aura range. I'd love that. 

 

Though thankfully I can still use all those lovely models...they're perfect for chapter themed sergeants. I have Haldor running one of my auto bolt rifle squads :D

[Raven1]

 

The thing about Repulsors is that this mantra kind of exists:

 

1 is none

2 is some

 

(credit Ishagu lol)

 

We say that at work all the time.  1 is none 2 is one (flashlights, knives, pens).  It works for lots of stuff and definitely for things you need to survive during the game.  Splits target priority.  If I ran all primaris, which definitely tempting I would run 2 for sure.

[durdle-durdle]

I keep waffling on the repulsor. It’s great to have a transport, and it has a lot of guns and all, but you can take 3 more squads of intercessors for the points of a repulsor. I just struggle with the idea of putting so many points into one model in an army that’s already really elite.

[Syward]

I keep waffling on the repulsor. It’s great to have a transport, and it has a lot of guns and all, but you can take 3 more squads of intercessors for the points of a repulsor. I just struggle with the idea of putting so many points into one model in an army that’s already really elite.

 

I feel the same way. I want to like the Repulsor, it’s a neat model and has tons of firepower, but I just can’t bring myself to include it in a list. Same goes for the Corvus, I really want to like it, but it’s points cost and the fact that I can’t use it for Primaris keep me from considering it more seriously.

[Lemondish]

 

 

I keep waffling on the repulsor. It’s great to have a transport, and it has a lot of guns and all, but you can take 3 more squads of intercessors for the points of a repulsor. I just struggle with the idea of putting so many points into one model in an army that’s already really elite.

I feel the same way. I want to like the Repulsor, it’s a neat model and has tons of firepower, but I just can’t bring myself to include it in a list. Same goes for the Corvus, I really want to like it, but it’s points cost and the fact that I can’t use it for Primaris keep me from considering it more seriously.

Thanks to auto bolt rifles with Aggressors and the Teleportarium, you don't need the mobility the Repulsor provides in DW. You're also unable to give it a reroll 1s to wound aura for the most part, and it doesn't benefit from SIA, so unless you hit it with a doctrine Stratagem it isn't going to be as effective as it is in codex armies where the transport capability is appreciated and the platform gets access to more reroll auras.

 

Though the one thing I appreciate and like about the Corvus is the carrying capacity. It allows you to carry some of the popular mixed Veteran squads. If it were as deadly as the Repulsor, it would honestly be an auto include for me.

 

Having said that, it's still a valid source of anti armour within the faction itself.