Idaho is going back to tournaments!

[Captain Idaho]

It's a Specialist Detachments Warlord Trait (so I can have that plus Adept of the Codex). It allows me to use it once per battle to reroll wounds for all Victrix Guard units within 6" in the Fight Phase.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Wow that is really good !

[Captain Idaho]

I just got back in from the game - it was a corker!

 

The lists were as described previously here.

 

The mission was a Vital Intelligence and the set up the traditional Dawn of War. My opponent won the roll to go first (by losing the deployment roll).

 

Deathwatch Deployment:

 

- He deployed his Helverins to either side of his deployment zone, but slightly to the middle.

- The Gallant went on the left flank but slightly towards the middle.

- the Repulsor carrying both Intercessor squads went in the middle along with the Watch Master.

- the Dreadnoughts went on both flanks.

- His Watch Captain went in the air with his Jump Pack

- Lastly the Veteran squad waited in the Teleportarium.

 

Ultramarines Deployment:

 

- My Dreadnoughts went on my right flank.

- The Centurions went on the right flank.

- The Warlord Lieutenant went on the right alongside 5 Tactical Marines.

- Scouts went in the centre behind cover but claiming the objective.

- Everything else went on my left flank.

 

Cover was good and blocked some fire to some units but there were also some good fire lanes.

 

Deathwatch Turn 1

 

My friend advanced the Gallant up for a turn one charge (taking the bait with my Vanguard squad with the Lightning Claws). The Repulsor moved up to the centre objective but the Intercessors stayed inside for now.

 

Shooting Phase, I put Tigurius' Prescience on the Power Fist Vanguard since the "bait" was due to be charged and he was worried that the losses would put the Gallant out of reach.

 

This proved to be the right choice since, alongside Prepared Positions, I only lost 2 models in that unit from the combined fire of everything on my left flank and the Repulsor (the Dread on that side had no line of sight to my vehicles).

 

Prepared Positions also saved my Centurions from harm when the Helverins tried their luck. The Dread on my right killed one of my own Dreads.

 

Lastly, my opponent attempted a charge, needing an 8. However, rerolling a 1 for another 1, needing just a 2+, he didn't get in.

 

I grinned. :)

 

Ultramarines Turn 1

 

I moved my Ironclad out of cover and set it up to charge the Gallant alongside the Captain and the Power Fists Vanguard. The other Vanguard went onto the objective in the center to soak some attention and keep my power fists squad alive longer.

 

The Scouts moved to screen the center of my deployment zone to prevent teleporting Veterans, now that the Vanguard took their objective for them.

 

Psychics I cast Might of Heroes on the Ironclad and Smite on the Gallant for a wound (House Krast saving one).

 

Shooting on my left flank was meek with only a handful of wounds taking the Gallant to about 19.

 

On the right my Centurions took the Helverin on that side down to about 4 wounds and the Dread finished it off. Yum. Amen to Wisdomof the Ancients and a Lieutenant.

 

The assault phase... Warden of Ultramar and Fight Like Demigods meant I crippled the Gallant, so it's attacks when it interrupted combat whiffed against the Captain.

 

I saved 2 Chainsword hits on the Ironclad with double 6. I was lucky but then so was my opponent for rolling his saves.

 

The Ironclad killed the Gallant and my opponent used the Strategum to bring it back to life ready for his turn.

 

VPs: 5-3 in my favour.

 

Deathwatch turn 2

 

Intercessors unloaded to attack the center objective and Veterans landed on my right flank.

 

The fire from the opponent was soaked by the Vanguard with Lightning Claws in the center who were left with 2 models but protected my army, thanks to a -1 to hit from Tigurius.

 

Lascannons and Missile Launchers bounced off the Ironclad thanks to T9.

 

The Centurions died thanks to the last Helverin and Storm Bolter fire from the Veterans (32 bloody shots!).

 

The Dread on the right flank took about 5 wounds from his opposite number.

 

The Gallant charged all 3 units and use the Strategum to count top tier. I popped Strike First for Ultramar but whiffed the rolls and the opponent had a single save to make, saving himself from losing the last 2 wounds.

 

It didn't matter because history repeated itself and a roll of double 6 saved my Ironclad, who finished the Gallant. No explosion thankfully.

 

The Intercessors easily finished the last 2 Lightning Claws squad.

 

Ultramarines Turn 2

 

I moved the Ironclad within charge range of the Dreadnought and the Contemptor moved up to threaten the center next turn.

 

The Vanguard and Captain moved to assault the critical center objective and my Warlord on the Right flank ran back into the center of the field! Heroic or tactical? :d

 

Psychic again Might of Heroes went on the Ironclad Smite wounded an Intercessor.

 

I plinked wounds off one Intercessor squad and not much else.

 

The Captain charged alongside the Vanguard but because of the Terrain blocking movement (Fortress of Redemption) only 2 Vanguard could fight. They killed 2 models whilst the Captain killed 2. Disappointed with myself here as my placement could have been better. My opponent kept that objective for now.

 

The Ironclad killed the Dreadnought effortlessly and claimed another objective off it.

 

VPs:[/] 8-6 in my favour.

 

Deathwatch Turn 3

 

Intercessors fell back but held the objective still and the Helverin, Dreadnought and Repulsor moved to kill the Ironclad.

 

The Veterans took my Right flank objective.

 

Shooting saw the Might of Heroes Ironclad survive on 2 wounds but the Dreadnought die to the Veterans.

 

Ultramarines Turn 3]

 

I moved up Tigurus and the Techmarine to support the Ironclad, healing him to 5 wounds and casting Might on the Contemptor.

 

The Captain and Vanguard jumped after the Watch Master who was now exposed.

 

The Scouts moved up to the center objective. If I killed 2 Intercessors I'd claim the objective. (Don't know why but I lost a Scout somehow)

 

I weakened the Helverin and Intercessors then charged.

 

The Ironclad killed the Helverin easily and the Contemptor killed 3 Marines.

 

The Vanguard used Fight Like Demigods and killed the Watch Master in a single charge. They had suffered a little attrition by now and down to about 7 models.

 

VPs: 14-7

 

End game:

 

My opponent called it but took 1 last turn to try and kill my Contemptor and took him down to 1 wound - I failed a lot of saves.

[Captain Idaho]

Learning points - Tigurius is king! Glad I'm using the older model and thank everyone for pointing it out.

 

Might of Heroes, Tigurius and a Techmarine are a great way to keep Dreads alive.

 

Sure I got lucky with the Ironclad rolling 4 out 4 6s to save.

 

But luck swings and my Centurions died cheaply, whilst I couldn't get through the enemy armour with my own shooting.

 

The Vanguard were stellar! Warden of Ultramar meant I smashed even a Knight whilst Fight Like Demigods meant I was hitting with 10 out of 11 power fists. Enough to win me the game.

 

Very enjoyable game.

[jonjacob]

pure gold. Thank God I magnetised a couple of thunder hammers to my vanguard. eating that gallant alive must satisfyingly good.

[Captain Idaho]

Ha it really was.

 

Even had it killed the Ironclad I had back up in the game from the Contemptor who was following in its footsteps.

 

Was a great game and I really got to see the Victrix Guard in action.

[Prot]

I hate saying this but I've been harping that Tiggy is possibly the best toolbox in the entire chapter. I can make a 100 different lists and he works in every one of them. In fact I hate that I rely so heavily on him. I'm glad you were able to get real mileage out of him.

 

I'm really glad you found success with the Ironclad and the Vanguard. It felt on paper like the Victrix Detachment could be -really- good. It's just nice to see you have success with it on the tabletop.

 

I think you took on a fairly strong list. Definitely something you'd see in a tournament. Like I said the Deathwatch have become a very common ingredient in the soup lists, so if you get used to seeing them used like that, you'll likely see more of the same in your tournament.

 

Great showing Idaho. Sounds like a fun game. It feels from reading it that a lot came down to how the Gallant would perform/shrug off.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Prot

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well done Idaho ! :)

[Captain Idaho]

Thanks all.

 

Regarding Tigurius - yes I totally agree he's a competitive crutch. He's too good not to include in a tournament which is not something I go with normally. I just don't like to rely on something like that.

 

However, with all Marines, no Guilliman armies being fairly weak I have less inhibitions taking him. He's not game breaking anyway. Players canget around him by just shooting something else.

 

Regarding Deathwatch: I think we'll see more and more Veterans squads with several 2pt Storm Shields and all Storm Bolters. My friend killed a solid Magnus list using them and is looking into more in place of the Intercessors.

[Prot]

Exactly. With Stormshields and the ability to deep strike they've become an auto take with Stormbolters. (I personally think they should not wound Monsters on a 2+). Unless they change the poison rule/cost of shields I hate to say it but it's probably 'stronger' to take scouts and ally in those Deathwach marines. I like that you're trying this without Guilliman. I do think primarchs overall will be shifting away from competitive play.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah wounding Monsters on a 2+ is pretty strong. I mean, they're bad enough nuking infantry so easily.

 

It's not even the 2+ wound. It's the Watch Master rerolls and reroll ones to wound on top of it.

 

Thanks for the complement. Guilliman is powerful but there was just soooo much I wanted to add for those points.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Captain Idaho

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The balance is they are not any good versus armor... if they don't wound monsters on 2+ they are pretty much worthless .

[Prot]

The balance is they are not any good versus armor... if they don't wound monsters on 2+ they are pretty much worthless .

 

That's really why I say they are the ultimate soup mix.

 

I think Idaho's experience facing a list with some good armour does prove the point that having a few 'cheaper' dreads, or similar options can sometimes compensate for not having that big killy toy waddling around the center of the table.

 

So Idaho, what's next? Tweak the list? Keep it the same? Set up another game?

[Captain Idaho]

Definitely Orks and Death Guard soon. Likely a rematch though my friend wants to try his BA and Deathwatch soup.

 

I like the list. Nothing performed badly or underneath expectations. I feel like I need to hone it now.

 

At least unless there are major changes in the next few months.

[Jolemai]

Rumour has it you were at a GT this weekend...

[Prot]

Yes I was wondering what happened to this thread? Were you at the first Heat?

 

The only times I could tune in to the games on Warhammer TV (Due to being in Canada), I only saw one marine game, but they may have been fighting for last place for all I know. I did see a BA triple repulsor list which.... looked kind of boring but I guess it's what you have to do. I also saw the same variants of Deldar Air show that I faced last week at a GT. (They're everywhere!)

 

Did you go Idaho?

[Captain Idaho]

Hey.

 

I had a great time and the opponents were all absolutely gentlemen. I'll post up a full reply later as I'm working right now.

[Captain Idaho]

Righty oh.

 

This Grand Tournament heat 1 was great fun. I've not had an event where I genuinely liked each and every one of my opponents before. Even the Eldar player! ;)

 

I went 2 wins and 3 losses in the end. I was actually happy with this. My list is decidedly thematically based rather than top tier so before I went there it was exactly what I wanted from it - 2 wins.

 

I have learning points. Or reaffirming of points we already know, really.

 

My army was very capable on the table but was very vulnerable to dice roll swings. One example is 10 Vanguard 1st turn charging a Knight Gallant with rerolls to hit of 1, +1 to hit AND reroll wounds from Warden of Ultramar.

 

What did this result in? 7 wounds and then the big swing - 11 saves to be made with 5 Storm Shields to soak them.

 

8 dead.

 

So what does THAT show me? Well such a swing will not just hamper the plan but it also hurt so much that I was left with far fewer options afterwards. A failed Contemptor charge shouldn't be terminal as I can't rely on such things to always go my way (or even sometimes - blimey I'm unlucky).

 

Of course I had redundancy already but stuff dies. If someone kills the Ironclad and then a Dreadnought with Lascannon and missile Launcher, followed by my dice betraying me for a Contemptor charge or bunch of 5 out of 6 failed saves on Shields really hurts, I've really got an uphill battle.

 

Overall I'm happy with the list. It was a little weak on troops numbers but that's easily rectified.

 

Oh and I received 3 out of 5 favourite opponents nominations and 2 favourite army nominations, because a bit of sportsmanship and a fair army is fun to face . :)

[Prot]

Nice to hear Idaho. Fun opponents make a world of difference in my experience. 

 

Would you change the list a ton? Or just tweak it going forward?

[Captain Idaho]

Well depends on what I want to achieve. If it's more of the same I'd tweak it.

 

However, if I wanted to get competitive I'd have to fundamentally alter it. Possibly keep the Vanguard as assault units but with some more powerful elements.

 

I'm tempted to go with a Leviathan with dual Grav Flux Bombard, maybe Guilliman...

[Captain Idaho]

I've had an idea for a list that is more competitive yet keeps my themes... check it out:

 

Vanguard Detachment

Specialist Detachment - Victrix Guard

 

Captain - Relic Blade, Plasma Pistol and Jump Pack, Warden of Ultramar

 

Venerable Dreadnought - Twin linked Lascannon and missile Launcher.

 

Vanguard squad ×10 - 5× Storm Shields and Chainswords, 5× Bolt pistol and Power Fists.

 

Vanguard squad ×10 - 4× Dual Lightning Claws, 3× Storm Shields and Chainswords, 3× Dual Chainswords.

 

Spearhead Detachment

 

Techmarine - Bolter and Chainsword

Hunter

Hunter

Leviathan Dreadnought - 2× Grav Flux Bombard and 3× Hunter Killer Missiles

 

Battalion

 

Chief Librarian Tigurius - Force Staff and Bolt Pistol, Might of Heroes, Psychic Scourge and Null Zone

 

Lieutenant - Mastercrafted Bolter and Chainsword

 

Tactical squad ×5 - Combi plasma and Heavy Bolter

Tactical squad ×10 - Combi plasma, Plasma gun and Heavy Bolter

Scout squad ×5 - Sniper rifles

 

Total 1748pts

 

The Venerable is there as crucial long range fire support but could be easily replaced by the Ironclad. Everyone kills the poor Ironclad competitively speaking as a priority so another T8 model to put pressure on opposing target saturation is potentially useful too.

 

The Hunters were both something I overlooked... 2 Lascannons for 160pts even on a T8 platform seemed expensive. Then I considered it again - it brings the saturation up for my opponents, is a crucial 2 more Lascannons that miss very seldom and if one is dead the other can still fire.

 

As for my actual opponents, the Hunters wound have contributed more against the Knights, the Eldar flyers and just about any of the likely opponents I've seen at tournaments whilst also being fairly difficult to deal with themselves.

 

I'll experiment I think.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Captain Idaho

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How are you liking those Grav Flux Bombards - are they doing some serious work for you? I know they were quite the narstee back in 7th Edition when I was paying HH.

[Captain Idaho]

Ha well I've not assembled the big brute yet, but I've rolled some dice and he appears to give me some good performances.

 

I'm sure he'll get nuked a few times but a 2+ with 4+ invulnerable should see him through most games 1st turn annihilation, especially with Tigurius and Prepared Positions.

 

***

 

What do people think about this experiment? I think there is merit in the combination of armour which are T8 models.

 

On that note, an Ironclad or Venerable Dreadnought? Target saturation with another T8 model of course, but then hitting flyers on a 3+ is handy and another anti tank option is always wanted.

[UnkyHamHam]

I like the list. The ironclad seems nice to help toughen up the list. Usually I like a back field Venerable to pop wisdom of the Ancients. But nothing really needs it in your list that's going to be castling up.

 

My vote is Ironclad. I've been curious about ironclads with hurricane bolters lately.

[Captain Idaho]

Thanks. I like to challenge myself and take armies that are themed yet can perform, to do well with under performing builds etc. Anyone can net list. ;)

 

Ironclads scare folk so they often die early so I think you might be right.

 

The Leviathan can use Wisdom of the Ancients but the beauty of the list is the Hunters don't actually need it.