b1soul Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 In Legion, he's only around 1,000 years old, made a Perpetual by the Cabal not that long ago. In Old Wounds, New Scars, he's around during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Is John simply a time-traveler (like Oll with an Athame)? Or has BL retconned John's origin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I'm thinking retconned, because I think its mentioned in Legion that he met with the Emperor after Unification at some celebration and what he saw inside the Emperor then it cuts to him lamanting his first pathetic death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 That looks to me to be a little continuity error right there from BL. Like all such things best explained away by the warp?? Given my hopes for the conclusion to the series I’m going with the cabals dirty hands being all over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 When someone is immortal, is age significant? From Legion, Abnett seems to imply that Grammaticus is functionally immortal, can be resurrected or some other equivalent, implying that he is in essence, timeless, aka a "Perpetual". That was one of the cool things I really liked about the Grammaticus character, that and how he handled the Lucifer Black barehanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 It seems like they changed it. If John was really 'created' during Unification, Alivia and him shouldn't have any history. Hasn't she been on Moloch since the DAoT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 I think John can time travel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Between time travelling and an authors oversight, I'd probably go with the later. If he can travel through time, he has some explaining to do as to why the galaxy is such a dumpster fire when it's in his power to change it "John, I'm thinking of sending Russ to go grab Magnus, mind jumping forward and seeing how that goes for me?" "Mind checking if Lorgar learned from Monarchia for me? Surely he'll stop searching for a God to worship..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammel Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 When someone is immortal, is age significant? I think it matters when they were alive and who they've met. Grammaticus met the Emperor fairly recently, so he might be relatively young among perpetuals. Contrast to Oll, who was kicking around at roughly the time the Emperor disappeared. Oll, who has intimate knowledge of god-killing weapons. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonreaper666 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Between time travelling and an authors oversight, I'd probably go with the later. If he can travel through time, he has some explaining to do as to why the galaxy is such a dumpster fire when it's in his power to change it "John, I'm thinking of sending Russ to go grab Magnus, mind jumping forward and seeing how that goes for me?" "Mind checking if Lorgar learned from Monarchia for me? Surely he'll stop searching for a God to worship..." Because the Chaos Gods would permanently kill him and any other time-travelers that try to John, Olly, Cypher and Orikan can time-travel yet none of them nor any other time-traveller has used their time-travelling to foil the Chaos Gods or the Heresy Tzeentch and Nurgle control time itself Ahriman and Mortarion would be empowered and then sent to kill anybody who tries to Even in Age of Sigmar, time-travelling Sigmarines don't even try to prevent End Times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Every word you just said is head canon, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I don't see how time-traveling would have helped. The Emperor already can see multiple versions of the future if he wants to but knows that he doesn't have to care about every single detail as long as the path he walks ends where he intends it to end. Sure there are some things he would've loved to prevent ... probably ... we can never be 100% sure whether he knew about those things and whether he let those things happen on purpose. He's super manipulative after all. However even if he wanted to prevent those things, where do you start checking for things that could go wrong? Which events do you recognize as important before they actually become important? Should time traveler X go and check which people are coming to visit next thursday because it might be an important event that changes the fate of the galaxy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Everybody who steps into the warp is a time traveller, to put it mildly. They step out of time and into a place where no natural law holds any sway. I think it is a tiny fraction of people who have entered (or been encompassed by) the warp have ever stepped out again. They leave reality and if they're "lucky" in some fashion emerge from the warp to enter a strange likeness some time and some place slightly similar and slightly different. Navigators and Geller fields and the Webway make it a bit more coherent and sensible. But not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 If I recall correctly, John is able to psychically project himself to converse with a time-traveling Oll Persson at Verdun in Perpetual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 If I recall correctly, John is able to psychically project himself to converse with a time-traveling Oll Persson at Verdun in Perpetual ....why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammel Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 If I recall correctly, John is able to psychically project himself to converse with a time-traveling Oll Persson at Verdun in Perpetual ....why? They definitely converse, though I'm not sure it wasn't in the present day - John warns Oll that the gods are after him and have dispatched a particularly powerful entity to stop him and his scooby-doo gang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 23, 2018 Author Share Posted December 23, 2018 Oll and his crew are cutting their way through spacetime with an Athame. They are being pursued by a daemonic entity. John warns Oll about their pursuer. They also visited a late DAoT world and had a two year layover... He thought Andrioch had likely been twice this size, once. Half of it looked to have been torn away by whatever created the cliff. There were weapons in the older days that could do it: weapons of immeasurable power, tech devices employed by both the Iron Men and the alliances that stood against their cybernetic revolt. Oll remembered the horror of entropic engines that ignited planets. Sun-snuffers that uncoiled like serpents the size of Saturn’s rings. Mechnivores ingesting data along with the cities that contained them and hurling continents into the heavens. Omniphage swarms stripping flesh from a billion bones in the blink of an eye. Those were the good old days, when war was something too colossal for a human mind to comprehend. Not like the End War. The Warmaster’s heresy was a smaller thing, scaled for human and post-human brains. But it was bigger in some ways. Yes, bigger than the god-like struggle of the cybernetic revolt. Bigger in scope, bigger in its implications. More horrible, because humanity could apprehend it and drive it. Although he did not say so, Oll Persson believed that a mechnivore had bitten Andrioch in two. A rogue unit, perhaps – though by that latter stage of the revolt, almost all machines were rogue, their abominable intelligence querulously hunting for friends but perceiving everything as enemies. The citizens of Andrioch were pale ghosts, like things that had lived in a cave, lacking colour or health or effective eyesight. Their skin was translucent. They did not interact with Oll and his band, but spent their days and nights in the rotting pits of their dwellings, wired into constant data-feeds sutured into their eyes and scalps, feeding off some illusion of normal life while they waited for the Mechaniclysm to end. For them, it never would. Their bodies would wither and die, and they would come to exist only as a virtual spectre, the memory of a city stored in a digital gestalt. Oll was determined not to join them. But the trek was dangerous, and he realised that there was another reason he had started answering the questions his band asked him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Lightstar Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Isn't the reference in Legion to his first "Death"? That could just mean that he'd not died before that and had managed to keep himself safe and secret until that point? Rik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascanius Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Damon Prytanis was sent by the Cabal to assassinate different historical figures. Did he simply live through the years in between each murder, or was he sent to those times? If the latter, then maybe John Grammaticus got to 1980s Afghanistan that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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