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Index Astartes exclusive rules

Index Astartes

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56 replies to this topic

#1
Lord Raven 19

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Got my January white dwarf today, any thoughts on index astartes?

1 chapter tactic
3 warlord traits (codex + 2)
3 stratagems (codex IF + 2)
3 relics (codex + 2)

The rules can be used by obscure chapters like those in codex.

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#2
Brother Tyler

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Are you talking specifically about the Crimson Fists rules? Or are you talking about how future Index Astartes articles might give similar rules for other Chapters?

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#3
dogfender

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I think it is a great platform to highlight some of the non-typical chapters, and also use it as a means to justify incorporating primaris into these chapters. That said, I suspect we will see some new primaris specific chapters.

Though I’ll still lobby for my Relictors. They were the first to have specific wargear, scenarios and even included allies, which were specific inquisitors and henchmen (wasn’t a thing back then). It would be easy to cherry pick their most notable relic or two, make them have a grudge against all things chaos.. done

Since the 13th black crusade was retconned, these guys are not on the run. They and many other chapters (the astartes praeses) guard the frontiers of the eye of terror. Since the rift from the last event there has been no mention of what happened to these chapters or even any indication that they remembered them lol.

This would be a great way to introduce some primaris for a decimated force and also a great way to combat the impending storm of chaos. What better way to fight chaos then use it against itself?
Also note they have been stealing relics for a lot longer than those blood ravens!


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#4
sfPanzer

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Getting some informations on pure Primaris chapters would be great but probably not before wave 2. However when wave 2 happens I'm pretty sure we will see an article for a Primaris chapter. Or maybe after wave 3 depending on the content of wave 2.
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#5
ShibeKing

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I really hope so. The idea of making my own Primaris chapter sounds very exciting. Just have to learn how to freehand my own iconography...

 

Or I could finally make up my mind and decide between DA or BA. So many upgrade sprues to use. Either way. Wave 2 and an update to the lore to see how Primaris chapters are organized would be fantastic. Would also like to see what Guilliman's new codex is all about.


Edited by ShibeKing, 08 January 2019 - 01:01 AM.


#6
Krom4095

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I'm holding out hope for new Carcharodons & Exorcists rules in WD.

Edited by Krom4095, 22 January 2019 - 01:18 AM.


#7
Brother Tyler

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Since Lord Raven 19 hasn't replied to my question...

 



Are you talking specifically about the Crimson Fists rules? Or are you talking about how future Index Astartes articles might give similar rules for other Chapters?

 

...I'll respond to both alternatives that I  posed.

 

As far as using the Crimson Fists rules go, yes, this is a great way to give a little more variety to players for some Chapters. Some of this may come down to what gaming groups will allow because there is some room for interpretation - do both (or all) players have to agree that the Crimson Fists rules might reasonably apply to the Chapter you've chosen? Or is it completely up to you? For example, the lore in the Badab War books from Forge World indicate that a few Chapters follow the Ultramarines rules (e.g., Howling Griffons, Novamarines). Since those books are no longer widely available, do players now have the option to say that their Howling Griffons army uses the Crimson Fists rules? One would hope that the player choosing to use the Crimson Fists rules for their not-Crimson Fists army is doing so because that choice is in the theme of the army they are playing, not because those rules would give them an advantage in the game. Assuming other Chapters similarly receive their own rules in future Index Astartes articles (see more on this below), the same will apply to those armies.

 

As for future articles covering other Chapters, I'm betting that all Chapters will not be equal - we won't see everyone receiving the full complement of rules. Some Chapters might receive only specialized relics, or specialized warlord traits, or other possible combinations. Still, anything that gives the community a bit more flexibility and room to show the variation in the Adeptus Astartes is a good thing (as long as the results are balanced and in character).

 

I would like to see Chapters that have had rules and/or background in previous editions, but which no longer have those, covered in future articles. The Chapters previously covered by Forge World (Badab War, etc.) are a great example, as are Chapters like the Fire Claws/Relictors, Blood Ravens, etc. There are also some fan favorites, and those that FFG gave us (Storm Wardens) that might see some coverage. I don't think that everyone necessarily needs unique rules, though. There are quite a few that would be fine with nothing more than background (perhaps a small tweak here or there, too). Rules are nice, but not absolutely necessary in every case.


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#8
Dracos

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I was under the impression the Crimson Fist rules were specifically mentioned as being available for Match Play, foregoing player permission such as one would need for the beta Bolter Discipline rule that we released?

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#9
Brother Tyler

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They are. My allusion to permission is when a player is using the Crimson Fists rules to represent some other Chapter that already has an established background and rules in a previous edition. From a RAW perspective, no permission is needed to use the Crimson Fists rules. Some players, however, might take some issue (even if they don't completely object) to using the Crimson Fists rules for some Chapter whose nature and background doesn't seem to fit the rules of the Crimson Fists. The vast majority of players should have no problem, but there is a small percentage of players that might not think it sporting. Personally, I don't think that it should be an issue with the Crimson Fists. If Chapters like the Exorcists or Relictors get rules that represent their background, though, using those Chapters' rules for other Chapters gets a bit iffy.


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#10
Lemondish

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I don't think there's any 'iffyness' about it.

Stepping up to a table with a well thought out list and gameplan only to have your opponent point out how they don't think your marines are the right colour for your selected tactic is a fine example of unsportsmanlike behaviour.

But it isn't the marine player at fault here.

Edited by Lemondish, 22 January 2019 - 09:05 PM.

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#11
Dracos

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I'm not personally bothered by rule variations ... but I'm also a DIY Chapter snowflake.  I would find it "iffy" (in a tournament setting) if some guys Ultramarine was using Blood Angel rules and same for a Crimson Fist army using Raven Guard rules now that they have this going for them. In a friendly setting though, I'm all good with guys testing things out as long as wysiwyg is in effect. 

 

 

.


Edited by Inquisitor Dracos, 23 January 2019 - 06:01 AM.

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#12
Lemondish

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I'm not personally bothered by rule variations ... but I'm also a DIY Chapter snowflake. I would find it "iffy" (in a tournament setting) if some guys Ultramarine was using Blood Angel rules and same for a Crimson Fist army using Raven Guard rules now that they have this going for them. In a friendly setting though, I'm all good with guys testing things out as long as wysiwyg is in effect.


.

I think of it this way - would I be comfortable winning a match because I denied the guy his planned list where his Crimson Fists were pretending to be Ultramarines today and I forced the TO to disallow it? I think I'd feel pretty bad about that.

But that's my personal opinion - I can't help it if it would bother others, but I personally see no issue with it.

Especially since marines are the only force I'm familiar enough to make that call. It isn't like I'd notice if the opponent's Necrons weren't the right dynasty colours, or their Nids weren't rocking the right hive fleet based on their paint scheme.

Edited by Lemondish, 23 January 2019 - 12:50 PM.

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#13
PeteySödes

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I'm not personally bothered by rule variations ... but I'm also a DIY Chapter snowflake. I would find it "iffy" (in a tournament setting) if some guys Ultramarine was using Blood Angel rules and same for a Crimson Fist army using Raven Guard rules now that they have this going for them. In a friendly setting though, I'm all good with guys testing things out as long as wysiwyg is in effect.


.

I think of it this way - would I be comfortable winning a match because I denied the guy his planned list where his Crimson Fists were pretending to be Ultramarines today and I forced the TO to disallow it? I think I'd feel pretty bad about that.

But that's my personal opinion - I can't help it if it would bother others, but I personally see no issue with it.

Especially since marines are the only force I'm familiar enough to make that call. It isn't like I'd notice if the opponent's Necrons weren't the right dynasty colours, or their Nids weren't rocking the right hive fleet based on their paint scheme.

 

 

Yea i mean, I think its weak when people hardcore bandwagon. I'm not going to effect other peoples game with my own bias though. This ofc with the exception of someone being needlessly complex for the sole reason of exploitation. Some of my main opponents are Guard flip-floppers that never play the same doctrines twice. Its exhausting but i manage.



#14
Brother Tyler

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I don't really think that people objecting to the use of the Crimson Fists rules is going to be a common problem. A small handful of curmudgeons might object, but most players will be fine with it.

Overall, the example of the Crimson Fists Codex Supplement bodes well for the future; and such additions aren't limited solely to the Adeptus Astartes. I can easily see other factions getting similar treatment (a Chaos Space Marine warband, an Asuryani craftworld, etc.).
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#15
Lord Raven 19

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Since Lord Raven 19 hasn't replied to my question...
 

sorry, forgot to follow this forum so I didn't see the question. The answer is both I guess, anything to do with the WD rules

Lord Raven19

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#16
Trevak Dal

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Well the best space marine army made for tournaments would be a gray army that's magnetized so you could play any space marine army as the meta shifts and gws fickle attention flits about.

You have ONE space marine army collection that can play Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Ultramarines, Whitescars, Salamanders, Black Templars Crimson Fists, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Steel Pangolins, The Wu Tang Clan, Chaos Marines, Deathwatch etc.

Have a core of "tactical marines" with bolters, and bolt pistols. 3x10.

Then get specialized kits as needed (Deathwing Knights, Death Company etc)

Edited by Trevak Dal, 27 January 2019 - 03:52 AM.

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#17
RWJP

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Some of this may come down to what gaming groups will allow because there is some room for interpretation - do both (or all) players have to agree that the Crimson Fists rules might reasonably apply to the Chapter you've chosen? Or is it completely up to you? 

According to the Space Marine Codex, it's entirely up to you.

The Codex essentially has three rules for Chapter Tactics:

  1. If your Chapter has it's own tactics, use those.
  2. If your Chapter does not have it's own tactics, but you know their founding Chapter, use those of it's founding Chapter (ironically enough they use Crimson Fists as an example for this)
  3. If your Chapter does not have it's own tactics, and you don't know the founding Chapter, use the tactics of the Chapter that you feel best describes the Chapter's character and fighting style

The Codex makes no mention of your opponent having to agree to which tactics you choose if you fall into the third category.


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#18
UnkyHamHam

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Do you think we'll get an Index Astartes WD article on Legion of the Damned with updated rules and points cost?

I have a converted LotD squad I made at the tail end of 7th that sees no use because of how expensive they are in 8th.
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#19
Lord Raven 19

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Do you think we'll get an Index Astartes WD article on Legion of the Damned with updated rules and points cost?

I have a converted LotD squad I made at the tail end of 7th that sees no use because of how expensive they are in 8th.

Well, the assassins are getting that next month.


Lord Raven19

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#20
Lord Raven 19

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Anyone know what is meant to be in June and July?

Also, ouch to the Ynnari players.


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#21
lythari

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Anyone know what is meant to be in June and July?

Also, ouch to the Ynnari players.

They seem to alternative between Index 40K and Index AoS.  From the back cover of the May issue i'd guess June is Fyreslayers.


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#22
Bryan Blaire

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Not sure why folks are asking for FW Chapters being covered by anyone other than in FW books...
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My DA Successor Chapter DIY - Stoneburners: Index Astartes Stoneburners
Posted Here: Stoneburners WiP - DA Forum
Completed Squads: Stoneburners - Hall of Honor Forum
Other Material Here (Angels on both sides of the War and Wolves): PCA WiP Forum
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#23
Gederas

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Not sure why folks are asking for FW Chapters being covered by anyone other than in FW books...

Probably because it's now known that Forge World doesn't even write the rules rules for their stuff in 40k. It's the GW team doing that now.


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#24
Bryan Blaire

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Probably because it's now known that Forge World doesn't even write the rules rules for their stuff in 40k. It's the GW team doing that now.

Right, but that doesn’t instantly mean that Chapters developed by FW are going to show up in IA, they are still FW product line.

IIRC, Crimson Fists and Blood Ravens are both actually depicted in the Codex: Space Marines, I also don’t recall any FW developed Chapters depicted there. I’m making an educated guess that GW will use IA to flesh out Chapters depicted in the C:SM that they felt didn’t get enough rules/air time prior to looking at any FW developed Chapters.
My DA Successor Chapter DIY - Stoneburners: Index Astartes Stoneburners
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#25
fire golem

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Just noticed this in the newest White Dwarf:
r698ZVP.jpg
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