Index Astartes exclusive rules

[Halandaar]

Nice, that's definitely encouraging if they're going to be covering the FW chapters too. Red Scorpions definitely deserve a look too, given their significant model support.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the next ones is the Emperor's Spears; they already have their own Chapter Tactic and it would be cool for them to be fleshed out further with Relics and Stratagems etc.

[RikuEru]

Nice, that's definitely encouraging if they're going to be covering the FW chapters too. Red Scorpions definitely deserve a look too, given their significant model support.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the next ones is the Emperor's Spears; they already have their own Chapter Tactic and it would be cool for them to be fleshed out further with Relics and Stratagems etc.

They got an IA booklet with the Limited Edition of the Book, one of the most significant extras to it, so... it could be some time til that gets released publicly.

[Panzer]

 

Nice, that's definitely encouraging if they're going to be covering the FW chapters too. Red Scorpions definitely deserve a look too, given their significant model support.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the next ones is the Emperor's Spears; they already have their own Chapter Tactic and it would be cool for them to be fleshed out further with Relics and Stratagems etc.

They got an IA booklet with the Limited Edition of the Book, one of the most significant extras to it, so... it could be some time til that gets released publicly.

 

 

Actually I think it wouldn't necessarily be that long now that the regular version of the book got released as well.

[Marshal Rohr]

Nice, that's definitely encouraging if they're going to be covering the FW chapters too. Red Scorpions definitely deserve a look too, given their significant model support.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the next ones is the Emperor's Spears; they already have their own Chapter Tactic and it would be cool for them to be fleshed out further with Relics and Stratagems etc.

The Index for them is already written as well ;) Would be simple job to say the least.

[MajorNese]

To be honest, not every successor/FW chapter makes sense, but quite a few do.

 

Blood Ravens seem like a good choice - quite famous, FW chapter master model, no known originator legion and partially different fighting style. Other FW chapters may or may not fit their originators' in rules - Sons of Medusa are still IH in playstyle, Raptors are still sneaky with RG rules, but Carcharodons for example are quite different in playstyle from their supposed originator (RG). I can see them do these first, but we'll see...

[Brother Tyler]

The WD comment about the so-called "FW Chapters" is a good thing. With the exception of the Angels Revenant, FW hasn't covered any Chapters that weren't brought up in WD first (the original article about the Badab War was one of the first Index Astartes articles during 1st edition, after all).

 

No matter who WD decides to cover in articles, there are going to be players that would prefer something else. I have my preferred Chapters, player X has his preferred Chapters, player Y has her preferred Chapters. The trick is for none of us to be selfish and to realize that there are other hobbyists out there who will enjoy whatever Chapter an IA covers.

 

I think that just about any Chapter could be covered by an Index Astartes article. As I said previously, all Chapters don't have to be equal with regard to the quantity of rules they get. Some might differ from the norm (whatever norm they are based upon) with nothing more than a Chapter relic or two. Others might need more extensive rules to better represent their level of distinctiveness/deviation. Two invaluable elements of the Index Astartes articles are the background and character of the Chapter (which don't necessarily have to lead to rules) and the appearance of the Chapter. Some Chapters might be given IA articles that include only those elements and they might inspire hobbyists to collect armies of those Chapters. My priority would be Chapters requiring more extensive rules, but I wouldn't be displeased by more lore-focused articles.

All that said, we don't need articles about every Chapter. The vast majority of Chapters could be left untouched, allowing players the freedom to make them their own. Those Chapters that are covered can then provide examples of the realm of the possible for enterprising and creative hobbyists.

Luckily for us, the inclusion of other factions in the Index ~ articles, and the monthly alternation with the other system mean that GW isn't likely to saturate us with Index Astartes articles and they have a wealth of potential topics to keep the articles going for quite some time.

[Sete]

Fingers crossed for WS sucessors index. Would love to see one like Mantis Warriors not focused on bikes.

[Bryan Blaire]

Well, it sounds like we know that they are considering doing the previously FW developed Chapters (even though the GW Studio Rules Team would be doing them, I still think those would be better done and fleshed out in a Specialist Games book than the presentation of an IA, but that’s just me, maybe Specialist Games won’t be covering Marines any more).

 

The IA articles for Marines should concentrate on Chapters that they dictate have “alternate” play styles/combat ops methods than their progenitors, or be used for Chapters whose progenitors are unknown and GW can use to introduce alternate play styles. I agree with Brother Tyler that not all Chapters need, and I will go farther to say actually ‘shouldn’t’ get an IA - if they have minimal differences, then they should have lore written about them, but don’t actually need a full IA (or have an IA segment devoted to just a couple of pages of fluff and names, and say X Codex named relic can be used to represent Y Chapter’s Z relic). Then you could stuff a couple of those per magazine, rather than a single more involved one.

 

But mostly I’d like to see them cover stuff that alters play style or tells us about things we truly don’t know (Primaris Chapter internal structures?).

[FlamingDeth]

Alternative playstyles should definitely be the focus here. They should also take some time to examine some of the more famous successors of snowflake chapters, since just because the Knights of Blood have Baal predators doesn't mean that they're going to fight just like their progenitor, and just because the Consecrators have a cargo ship full of relics doesn't mean they shouldn't have a chapter master*.

 

It could also be a place for them to explore different, for lack of a better term, formations within an established chapter so that it doesn't clutter the parent codex. Put some new things in for different great companies, maybe something on tyrannic war vets for the people complaining that Ultramarines don't get enough content. I dunno, honestly this just seems like the perfect place to put basically any niche new marine content out so that marines don't clutter the main release schedule more than they already do.

 

 

* This is a big one since RAW the DA codex states specifically that you can use successor chapters in the book but if you do you don't get to use named characters, and while you can build your own normal and terminators company masters, there's no DIY option for chapter masters or bike masters. I game with a friendly group who doesn't care but I have heard of people encountering issues with that before. Also, it would just be kind of nice to be able to have a chapter master with a load out other than combiplasma/big sword.

Edited June 21, 2019 by FlamingDeth

[Claws and Effect]

I'm still of the opinion that the First Founding Chapters that are stuck with 1 relic and Warlord Trait each need to be fleshed out more via Index Astartes articles before we get a bunch of more obscure Chapters.

 

Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves all get at least 6 of each apiece.

 

It boggles the mind that other Chapters with just as much history only get 1.

[Panzer]

They also got their own Codex so that comparison is not entirely fair.

 

Also I'd expect the chapters that already are in the Codex to get more stuff via proper supplements and not in a White Dwarf article.

[FlamingDeth]

They don't get 1, they get 7. An Imperial Fists character doesn't lose access to the normal space marines armory.

[Claws and Effect]

They also got their own Codex so that comparison is not entirely fair.

 

Sure it is, when you consider that the other Chapters all had at least 4 or 5 relics last edition when sharing a Codex and still had access to the generic ones.

 

And only 1 unique Strategem per Chapter too. And before you say they have access to the other Strategems, note that Blood Angels and Dark Angels at least have most of the general Marine Strategems on top of a dozen or so that are unique to them.

 

I'm not asking for the same amount of unique stuff as a Chapter with their own Codex. But more than 1 of each thing unique to them would be nice.

 

My point here is that GW showered attention on the big 4, and stuff for the other 5 was barely an afterthought.

 

It's a vicious circle. GW would give the other Chapters more support if more people played them. But fewer people play them because they aren't really supporting them much.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Claws and Effect

[Schlitzaf]

To be fair BA/DA do lose some ours (Chapter Master) and some our more useful relics (Teeth of Terra most notably). Serious question for those who want more things, what would you have it be?

 

The two most unique chapters within Vanilla Marines, in terms of raw number of rules are Templars and Ultras. Then in terms of actual playstyle, is Ravengaurd. Like I get having another strategem and/or relic (hell I want myself a Biker Crusader squad).

 

A somewhat rhetorical question, what would be your price point if we double or even triple the amount of unique things? How much more would you be willing to pay over the current 10 dollar Vanilla for this?

[Panzer]

 

They also got their own Codex so that comparison is not entirely fair.

Sure it is, when you consider that the other Chapters all had at least 4 or 5 relics last edition when sharing a Codex and still had access to the generic ones.

 

And only 1 unique Strategem per Chapter too. And before you say they have access to the other Strategems, note that Blood Angels and Dark Angels at least have most of the general Marine Strategems on top of a dozen or so that are unique to them.

 

I'm not asking for the same amount of unique stuff as a Chapter with their own Codex. But more than 1 of each thing unique to them would be nice.

 

My point here is that GW showered attention on the big 4, and stuff for the other 5 was barely an afterthought.

 

It's a vicious circle. GW would give the other Chapters more support if more people played them. But fewer people play them because they aren't really supporting them much.

 

 

I mean in a perfect world every subfaction would have their own Codex and everything but that's pretty unreasonable. The chapters in Codex: Space Marines got the same amount of stuff as the subfactions in other Codexes. I'm not sure why there's so much complaining about it. I'm also not sure what that has to do with index astartes exclusive rules as subfactions in a Codex are obviously not index astartes exclusive.

[Dracos]

Maybe because no one expects much difference between Carmine Blades and Blood Angels or Lions Sable and Dark Angels on the table but treating Raven Guard as a subfaction of Ultramarines is silly as far as play style and also just ticks people off?

[Panzer]

Raven Guard aren't the subfaction of Ultramarines though. They both are subfactions of Adeptus Astartes. Equals.

Also I'd say it's not much worse than Farsight Enclaves and T'au Sept in the same book. Or the various different Ork Clans like Snakebites together with Freebooterz and Deathskulls etc.

 

Edit: typos

Edited June 22, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

That's an interesting idea to have multiple very similar successors in a single IA. You'd satisfy more players simultaneously and there's really no reason to give two successors two unique IA's if their rules would be nearly identical. You'd probably have to reduce the non-rules section since you're cramming more than one chapter in the issue, or maybe they could make longer issues.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Tyberos the Red Wake

[Dracos]

Raven Guard aren't the subfaction of Ultramarines though. They both are subfactions of Adeptus Astartes. Equals..

Technically correct but absolutely with all due respect. Equals?

 

When we see rules for Vulkan, of an Honor Guard for Shrike, a tank commander for the Iron Hands ... all which are Founding Chapters ... then I’ll come around to GW treating the other Founding Marines as something other than subfactions.

 

 

Sorry man, I get the realities of manufacturing but decades of getting lumped in with Smurfs creates a hot button :D and yeah I hope they are using IA to add variety in play style. Hopefully they do a Crusader Chapter soon.

[Panzer]

Yeah I understand the frustration of sharing a Codex with GWs marketing poster boys but it is what it is. Giving Raven Guard & Co more stuff wouldn't change anything about it since they'd give Ultramarines the same as well. ^^

Edited June 23, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Stoic Raptor]

I think you can tell which Chapter I'd like to see an IA index for...

<----- 

[Lord Raven 19]

We need a RG one, I want those relic LCs back.

[Claws and Effect]

We need a RG one, I want those relic LCs back.

There's precedent for them in the rules even. How many things generate extra attacks on 6s nowadays?

 

I had a few ideas that could go in a Raven Guard IA. 3 relics total and 3 or 4 unique Strategems would be fine by me.

 

In my opinion, the existing rules don't do enough to facilitate different playstyles between the different Chapters. Codex Marines all play pretty much the same when you get right down to it. Sure, the Chapter Tactics add a slightly different wrinkle to it. But all it really does for my Raven Guard is make them feel like sneaky Ultramarines. It doesn't really make them feel like a different Chapter with different ways of doing things.

 

And they gave us the least useful relic out of the ones we used to have for the playstyle they've shoehorned us into. Why would they encourage us to keep our distance and then give us a special jump pack instead of the unique sniper rifle we used to have? Especially with Primaris characters that can take a Stalker bolt rifle (which Nihilus could replace).

 

Bottom line is, they pretty much phoned in the rules for over half of the First Founding Chapters, and IA articles would be a great opportunity to flesh them out some more without having to print another Codex right away. And after they've printed all of them in White Dwarf they could do a special issue that collects them all in one place.

[Lemondish]

I'm not entirely convinced we'd ever see RG in an IA, but damn if I don't like these ideas.

[Lord Raven 19]

I'm not entirely convinced we'd ever see RG in an IA, but damn if I don't like these ideas.

I just hope that the Smurfs don't get one