Dark Matter Crystal

[dbecer01]

Hi,

 

Just to be clear, Dark Matter Crystal doesn't put your unit into reserves, so you can do it first turn at the end of the movement phase, correct?

[Are Verlo]

Guess so. I can´t find any rule that would prevent you from doing so.

[Tokugawa]

Of course you can. It is the key part of tzaangor tactics.

[Cruor Vault]

Correct,

 

The core rulebook FAQ was changed around September.  GW removed the line about redeployment abilities counting as reserves.

[Tokugawa]

And since this unit is not from reserve, could this unit warptime move that turn?

[Lucky_Lee]

And since this unit is not from reserve, could this unit warptime move that turn?

That's the combo. DMC + Warptime + Brayhorn

I like to run a Daemon Prince with Wings and Aetherstride up. If you can get a Tzaangor Shaman close enough for the buff thats helpful too.

 

I typically do that and Deepstrike a SOT and a Termie Sorcerer w/familiar the turn after to keep the heat on.

[Tokugawa]

 

And since this unit is not from reserve, could this unit warptime move that turn?

That's the combo. DMC + Warptime + Brayhorn

I like to run a Daemon Prince with Wings and Aetherstride up. If you can get a Tzaangor Shaman close enough for the buff thats helpful too.

 

I typically do that and Deepstrike a SOT and a Termie Sorcerer w/familiar the turn after to keep the heat on.

Your heroes don't really need to get that close; you can drag a "tail" from the big blob.

[Heliomanes]

There's a thread in the rules part of the forum discussing if you can use Black Matter Crystal and Warptime as a combo. I'd be interested to hear something definitive on this. Apparantly they don't allow it in the ITC?

[Cruor Vault]

There's a thread in the rules part of the forum discussing if you can use Black Matter Crystal and Warptime as a combo. I'd be interested to hear something definitive on this. Apparantly they don't allow it in the ITC?

 

It's not an ITC issue. 

 

Prior to the updated core rulebook FAQ around (maybe September?) Dark Matter Crystal was ruled to count as reinforcements (all redeployment abilities were).  Coming on from Reinforcements is what prevented Warptime after DMC'ing.  

 

Now that the line defining redeployment powers as reinforcements has been removed, DMC is legal to combine with Warptime.

[Khalan]

Please dont spread misinformation. You can't warptime after DMC. Any units setup mid turn including DMC count as reinforcements. Reinforcements cannot be warptimed. The removal of the line referenced above has nothing to do with it. There are many threads about this. It also has nothing to do with ITC. It is in the core rulebook

[Cruor Vault]

Please dont spread misinformation. You can't warptime after DMC. Any units setup mid turn including DMC count as reinforcements. Reinforcements cannot be warptimed. The removal of the line referenced above has nothing to do with it. There are many threads about this. It also has nothing to do with ITC. It is in the core rulebook

 

 

Yes, you can.  This is due to GW's incompetent writing.  I don't personally like it.  I Think it's silly, abusive, and unfortunately...  Legal.

 

Dark Matter Crystal Text.

 

 “Once per battle, at the end of your Movement phase, you can select the bearer or a friendly THOUSAND SONS INFANTRY unit within 12" of him. Remove that unit from the battlefield and immediately set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" from any enemy models. This does not count as Falling Back if the unit was within 1" of any enemy models.”

 

 

From the 1.2 version of the BRB FAQ

 

 "Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and

then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the

Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having

moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?"

A: Yes. Treat such units as if they are arriving on the

battlefield as reinforcements.

 

 

 

The 1.3 version of the BRB FAQ

 

 "Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and

then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or

the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having

moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?"

A: Yes.

 

 

 

They removed the line treating redeployment powers as arriving as if they were reinforcements.

 

Whilst it certainly seems the intent was for abilities like DMC, Wings of Fire or Veil of Darkness to be treated the same as coming in from reinforcements, thats not actually what GW wrote. 

 

This is exactly the same situation as the 0" charges that caused the FLY nerf recently.  Hopefully GW gets it into their head there needs to be a clear line stating that redeployment abilities are to be treated as reserves, but as of the recent BRB FAQ that does not exist.

[Marshlands]

The assumption is that the removal of the last line is intended to have this effect. The RAW is that the restriction has been removed but it may not be RAI.

 

There is also a view that the description of reinforcements matches how DMC works but it's not explicit

[Khalan]

The removal is irrelevant. Any unit arriving setup mid turn counts as reinforcements. The old faq does not exist anymore anywhere, you can't use the change as a justification for allowing Warptime because a player looking at all current faq wouldn't have the knowledge of old faq. We can only go on what is written in the rules and the Rulebook is clear. Someone not having played would not have the knowledge of an old faq so you can't use that. There is nothing allowing them to mo

 

Units setup midturn are reinforcements. Period. no amount of extrapolation due to changed faq will change that.

 

See photo below for the detailed breakdown.

 

[Panzer]

Yeah but being set up as reinforcements doesn't prevent you from moving. Arriving from reserves prevents you from moving. Now everything that arrives from reserves counts as reinforcements but not everything that counts as reinforcements also counts as reserves. Reserves are strictly the units that didn't get deployed in your deployment zone at the beginning of the game and instead are set aside to arrive turn 2-3 (without beta turn 1-3). The difference becomes more apparent when you look at things like the BA Stratagem Upon Wings of Fire which lets you re-deploy a unit with Jump Packs which then counts as getting deployed as reinforcements. You can do that turn 1 already but you can't let your reserves arrive turn 1 with the beta rules.

[Khalan]

Yeah but being set up as reinforcements doesn't prevent you from moving. Arriving from reserves prevents you from moving. Now everything that arrives from reserves counts as reinforcements but not everything that counts as reinforcements also counts as reserves. Reserves are strictly the units that didn't get deployed in your deployment zone at the beginning of the game and instead are set aside to arrive turn 2-3 (without beta turn 1-3). The difference becomes more apparent when you look at things like the BA Stratagem Upon Wings of Fire which lets you re-deploy a unit with Jump Packs which then counts as getting deployed as reinforcements. You can do that turn 1 already but you can't let your reserves arrive turn 1 with the beta rules.

 

No, You are literally confusing the rules you have it completely backwards. Tactical reserves (Which is a rule) is related to Turn 1 deep strike. That is a completely separate rule and not relevant here.

 

The rule you are talking about is literally called "Reinforcements" in the rule book. Reinforcements can not move, it says it in rule-book and it clarifies it further in the faq right here:

 

 

 

 

 

Main Rulebook FAQ

 

 

The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on

the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance

further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot,

charge, etc.).

Q: Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in

and consolidate?

A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge

and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it

can pile in and consolidate.

Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason

e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive

Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as

Warptime

from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because

of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from

Codex:

Ty r a n id s

, etc.?

A: No.

 

Next time instead of arguing for something that is wrong, try reading the rules.. Your whole argument above is completely wrong,

[Prot]

This just never ends does it?

 

I've watched it go back and forth long enough. The only consistency is people end up taking the argument to a personal level and that's where I have to end it.

 

For the umpteenth time on Dark Matter Crystal, please take it to the rules forum where it can be argued with a larger audience (and probably come to the same inconclusive decision.)

 

I'm sorry there isn't a better way but GW really needs to be much more clear on this mechanism (not just DMC) because it comes up a lot, and is far from having a concrete answer (based on tournaments and the amount of disagreement that happens here.)

 

My advice (I've done this myself) is to take it to GW's 40K facebook page and politely ask there. It's the only way they resolve these issues in my experience.