Victrix Honour Guard FAQ change Jan.14/2019

[Prot]

I think this is a big one... at least it is to me because I really wanted to use these guys:

 

ERRATA

Page 171

– Victrix Honour Guard, Abilities, Honour Guard of Macragge

Change to read:

‘When a friendly Ultramarines Character model within 3" of this unit would lose any wounds as a result of an attack made against that model, this unit can attempt to intercept that attack. Roll one D6; on a 2+ the model does not lose those wounds and this unit suffers 1 mortal wound for each of those wounds. Only one attempt can be made to intercept each attack.’

 

Bold emphasis mine. I don't know if they heard me but I was so disheartened when it turned out (in the codex as well as this new unit) had the weak version of the bodyguard rule.

 

Now according to the bolded type we can take a full Lascannon hit and pass it off to the Guard.

 

Previous wording was, "...

Roll a D6 each time a friendly ULTRAMARINES CHARACTER loses a wound whilst they are within 3" of this unit; on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit - that ULTRAMARINES CHARACTER does not lose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound.

 

So now the attack is intercepted, then wounds resolved. Previously the wounds were resolved, then passed to the guard.  Now the unit is intercepting the attack (the source of the wounds).

[Indefragable]

Yea I prefer that new wording much more.

 

What are they chances they update Company Vets and similar profiles to have that wording as well?

 

Makes far more sense to have a bodyguard doing the "NOOOOOOO" jump-in-front-of-the-hero-and-take-the-bullet thing....

 

...other wording is more bodyguard saying "don't worry, sir! I'll take the gangrene from your wound and die of lead poisoning for you!"

[BrotherAetherick]

You still take the full damage of the attack as mortal wounds right? (aka not like saviour protocals). So if a lascannon did 6 damage, both guard would die if you intercepted it?

[PeteySödes]

You still take the full damage of the attack as mortal wounds right? (aka not like saviour protocals). So if a lascannon did 6 damage, both guard would die if you intercepted it?

 

Thats my read, since mortals carry.

[Captain Idaho]

It's much better than it was but as said, since Mortal Wounds spill over to additional models in a unit, it's very possible for a single attack to kill both Victrix Honour Guard.

 

It's also quite noticeable that GW only made the change for the Victrix Honour Guard and not Classic Marines with the body guard rule...

[Prot]

It's much better than it was but as said, since Mortal Wounds spill over to additional models in a unit, it's very possible for a single attack to kill both Victrix Honour Guard.

 

It's also quite noticeable that GW only made the change for the Victrix Honour Guard and not Classic Marines with the body guard rule...

 

It was a Vigilus FAQ.

 

I am sure the changes will trickle down but at this point I honestly have a  hunch we're looking at a Codex overhaul shortly.

 

This version of the bodyguard is still MUCH preferred to me. Honestly they were almost unusable to me.... I mean I DID use these squads a lot and found nothing but frustration. These guys are 3 wounds a piece. Personally I disagree that it is likely for 'a single attack to kill both Victrix...'

 

Typically I was losing mine far easier anyway. When it comes to Oathbreaker missiles and tournament set ups, I'll definitely take this variant. :tu:

[Quixus]

You still take the full damage of the attack as mortal wounds right? (aka not like saviour protocals). So if a lascannon did 6 damage, both guard would die if you intercepted it?

I disagree. The guard takes one mortal wound per attack on the initial target, not one MW per damage the attack deals. So it does not matter if the lascannon does one or six damage the guard always takes one MW.

[Prot]

 

You still take the full damage of the attack as mortal wounds right? (aka not like saviour protocals). So if a lascannon did 6 damage, both guard would die if you intercepted it?

I disagree. The guard takes one mortal wound per attack on the initial target, not one MW per damage the attack deals. So it does not matter if the lascannon does one or six damage the guard always takes one MW.

 

 

Unfortunately I think this says otherwise:

this unit suffers 1 mortal wound for each of those wounds.

 

Still it's much better than before.

[Brother Captain Ed]

 

 

 

 

You still take the full damage of the attack as mortal wounds right? (aka not like saviour protocals). So if a lascannon did 6 damage, both guard would die if you intercepted it?

I disagree. The guard takes one mortal wound per attack on the initial target, not one MW per damage the attack deals. So it does not matter if the lascannon does one or six damage the guard always takes one MW.

Still it's much better than before.

I disagree. Before, when that lascannon went through with a 6, you rolled your dice and, on average, the honor guard soaked 5 and your character got 1. Now, there's a 1 in 6 chance that the lascannon just punches your character for 6 and the honor guard are standing around wondering what happened.

 

Since it does nothing to reduce damage and introduces a chance to do nothing at all, it seems much worse to me.

[Prot]

 

 

 

You still take the full damage of the attack as mortal wounds right? (aka not like saviour protocals). So if a lascannon did 6 damage, both guard would die if you intercepted it?

I disagree. The guard takes one mortal wound per attack on the initial target, not one MW per damage the attack deals. So it does not matter if the lascannon does one or six damage the guard always takes one MW.

Still it's much better than before.

I disagree. Before, when that lascannon went through with a 6, you rolled your dice and, on average, the honor guard soaked 5 and your character got 1. Now, there's a 1 in 6 chance that the lascannon just punches your character for 6 and the honor guard are standing around wondering what happened.

 

Since it does nothing to reduce damage and introduces a chance to do nothing at all, it seems much worse to me.

 

 

I still think it's better. I think perhaps it's a case of using the unit.

 

I've used body guard units a lot, and you have to realize there are times where you literally throw away the wounds, and times where you are saving a character.

 

Since you resolve saves one at a time, with something like overcharged plasma you pick the time when you are pretty sure you're going to lose the character, then transfer the wounds. Before this was a gamble because you could roll 6 times on that lascannon, and come up snake eyes on an overcharged Plasma etc. At least this is one roll for all the damage and can be relied on at critical times in the game.

 

I fail to see how it's 'much worse'.

 

Again I'm playing this unit. This is one area where it couldn't be relied on and now can be. BTW: I should clarify that I use the unit because it's something I like the look of. I don't like how GW handles the mortal wound mechanic... I just think it's too strong. I may prefer how the bodyguard rules work now for this unit, but it's not like I would use this unit in a highly competitive game... but they sure look good.

[Captain Idaho]

I think it's much better. It SHOULD be on hits as they have Storm Shields for a reason, but at least they can intercept damage much better now.

 

@ prot: on that subject, it is easy enough to kill 2 with 1 shot if 1 of them is reduced to 1 or 2 wounds.

 

Of course, to contradict myself, most interceptions will be in close combat surely so the usual weapons don't do above D3 wounds.

[Brother Captain Ed]

 

Since you resolve saves one at a time, with something like overcharged plasma you pick the time when you are pretty sure you're going to lose the character, then transfer the wounds. Before this was a gamble because you could roll 6 times on that lascannon, and come up snake eyes on an overcharged Plasma etc. At least this is one roll for all the damage and can be relied on at critical times in the game.

 

I fail to see how it's 'much worse'.

 

So you are saying that going from a 1/36 chance of failing to intercept an overcharged plasma shot to a 1/6 chance at "critical times in the game" is not worse?

 

You're gonna have to break that one down for me.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I wish each attack converted to one mortal wound.

[Captain Idaho]

Better yet, on a 2+ they receive the hit. Actually put those Storm Shields to good use...

[Prot]

I wish each attack converted to one mortal wound.

 

That would be better, but I wish they'd just do away with the way Mortal Wounds carry over.

 

 

 

Since you resolve saves one at a time, with something like overcharged plasma you pick the time when you are pretty sure you're going to lose the character, then transfer the wounds. Before this was a gamble because you could roll 6 times on that lascannon, and come up snake eyes on an overcharged Plasma etc. At least this is one roll for all the damage and can be relied on at critical times in the game.

 

I fail to see how it's 'much worse'.

 

So you are saying that going from a 1/36 chance of failing to intercept an overcharged plasma shot to a 1/6 chance at "critical times in the game" is not worse?

 

You're gonna have to break that one down for me.

 

 

I don't think I actually said that. It looks you've decided you don't like them.... don't use them. It's that easy.

 

I will continue to enjoy them in my fun games. I didn't mean to turn into a math-hammer debate.

[Cruor Vault]

Better yet, on a 2+ they receive the hit. Actually put those Storm Shields to good use...

 

The roll pass off the damage is done AFTER saves, as a unit doesn't lose wounds until then.

 

All this change does is force you to transfer ALL of the damage from a successfully intercepted hit rather than cherry picking how much you want to transfer.

[Toxichobbit]

Better yet, on a 2+ they receive the hit. Actually put those Storm Shields to good use...

 

I agree. GWs obsession with mortal wounds for anything beyond basic attacks is really tiresome this edition.

 

It might be a case that GW feels giving all Ultramarine charactes a 3+ Invulnerable for 5/6 hits is too much.

 

 

 

Since you resolve saves one at a time, with something like overcharged plasma you pick the time when you are pretty sure you're going to lose the character, then transfer the wounds. Before this was a gamble because you could roll 6 times on that lascannon, and come up snake eyes on an overcharged Plasma etc. At least this is one roll for all the damage and can be relied on at critical times in the game.

 

I fail to see how it's 'much worse'.

 

So you are saying that going from a 1/36 chance of failing to intercept an overcharged plasma shot to a 1/6 chance at "critical times in the game" is not worse?

 

You're gonna have to break that one down for me.

 

 

It's still 1/36, because Command Re-Roll is a thing. Also, what you're saying above is misleading. It was a 1/36 chance of avoiding 2 damage from a supercharged plasma shot, but the chance of avoiding all damage was lower because you had to roll once for each wound. So you have a 1/36 chance of rolling a double 1, but a higher chance of rolling just one 1. That's important to take into account. Of course, once you include Command Re-Roll alongside the old Bodyguard rule the chance of taking 2 damage is even less than 1/36, but the chance of taking some damage is 1/36.

 

I don't think focusing on the one example Prot gave really helps, because it's so specific that arguing about it is relegating the discussion to pedantry (I'm aware of the irony of saying that after writing the above paragraph). Once you move beyond that one example and onto things that do 3 or more damage the old rule becomes even less effective at completely negating damage where as the new rule retains it's effectiveness and scales much better with the Command Re-Roll, though the risk is that if you fail that 1/36 you're taking the full force of the hit. In my opinion, there's no right answer here, it's up to each player to decide if they prefer a set 1/6 or 1/36 (with Command Re-Roll) to ignore all damage, or a more granular 1/6 per damage taken. It'll probably be irrelevant in half a year or so anyway, because GW will switch our older bodyguard units to using the new rule.

[Captain Idaho]

True but they could have pointed the Victrix Honour Guard appropriately.

[Panzer]

I think this is a big one... at least it is to me because I really wanted to use these guys:

 

ERRATA

Page 171

– Victrix Honour Guard, Abilities, Honour Guard of Macragge

Change to read:

‘When a friendly Ultramarines Character model within 3" of this unit would lose any wounds as a result of an attack made against that model, this unit can attempt to intercept that attack. Roll one D6; on a 2+ the model does not lose those wounds and this unit suffers 1 mortal wound for each of those wounds. Only one attempt can be made to intercept each attack.’

 

Bold emphasis mine. I don't know if they heard me but I was so disheartened when it turned out (in the codex as well as this new unit) had the weak version of the bodyguard rule.

 

Now according to the bolded type we can take a full Lascannon hit and pass it off to the Guard.

 

Previous wording was, "...

Roll a D6 each time a friendly ULTRAMARINES CHARACTER loses a wound whilst they are within 3" of this unit; on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit - that ULTRAMARINES CHARACTER does not lose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound.

 

So now the attack is intercepted, then wounds resolved. Previously the wounds were resolved, then passed to the guard.  Now the unit is intercepting the attack (the source of the wounds).

 

Would be nice if it would work like the T'au Drones rule but unfortunately it still reads like they take the full 1d6 damage instead of just 1 per Lascannon.

Now Lascannons should rarely get a clean shot at the character anyway so it would mostly just come into play in melee but still.

[Cruor Vault]

True but they could have pointed the Victrix Honour Guard appropriately.

 

32pts for 2+/3++ 3W and 4A with a Powersword is already fantastic, combined with their ability to Heroic Intervene and absorb damage for nearby characters....  They're one of the most points efficient units in the faction!

[Lemondish]

 

True but they could have pointed the Victrix Honour Guard appropriately.

 

32pts for 2+/3++ 3W and 4A with a Powersword is already fantastic, combined with their ability to Heroic Intervene and absorb damage for nearby characters....  They're one of the most points efficient units in the faction!

 

 

Cannot agree more with this. I'm jealous of the smirfs because of them :)

[Panzer]

Same here. I wish I had such a unit for my BA. :D

[Captain Idaho]

I think people are missing the context of the discussion here. I agree they are costed correctly for what they are RIFHT NOW but we're talking about changing the Bodyguards rules to be hit transference instead.

[Panzer]

I don't think it should change anything about their points tho. Look at the DG Deathshroud who have exactly such a bodyguard rule and how rarely you see them getting played due how expensive they are for a purely melee unit and how cheap T'au Drones are for yet another strong bodyguard rule.

[Subtleknife]

Should be the hit transfer to the victrix on a 2plus so they still get those invuns.