Angel_of_Blood Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 That's well established as being a slip on Wraight's part, isn't it? Is there any indication of Mortarion actually bringing Typhoon to heel as intended? No. And by the time he does have his moment of "I will make him listen/pay/etc" It's laughably too late.Damn. I was hoping to see something like Typhon having to be seriously sneaky, after all that referencing the fact that Mortarion had lost his grip on him. Typhon is almost hilariously obvious if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 That's well established as being a slip on Wraight's part, isn't it? I hadn't heard of it specifically being an error. I thought it was a deliberate attempt to cut through the tangled weave of Typhon's background, i.e. having Barbaran ancestry (with the rumour of an overlord connection) but still somehow attaining high rank as a Dusk Raiders librarian/officer in the narrow gap between Barbarus's discovery and Mortarion taking command of the legion. Not impossible for both those things to work together - Mortarion could have been on Terra for a number of years while the Barbaran recruits adapted to their new place in the XIVth legion, which makes it just about possible for a capable aspirant to rise quickly, particularly if they were already prominent in the Barbaran elite troops - but kind of unlikely and pretty clearly down to multiple authors not coordinating over the last decade and a half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 How long would it have taken the Dusk Raiders to become the DG after Mort's discovery? Maybe a year or two at most? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 The name probably changed quickly. The organisational stuff - stripping the Principia Bellicosa patterns, reforming the legion along faintly numerological lines, dissolving the librarius - probably took a bit longer but the impression I got from FW's Betrayal was that Mortarion's reform of the DG was one of the most immediate and the most root-and-branch of any legion. Again, not impossible for Typhon to attain heights, just feels weird to have a Barbaran who has fought closely alongside Mortarion and presumably knows his views on psykers get inducted into the Dusk Raiders while his primarch is on Terra, rise to further prominence at least partially on the strength of his psychic abilities, and then have to radically dial it back when dad shows up again and bans librarians. It's lumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogun Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I think what has been said elsewhere (by Laurie Goulding if memory serves), is that the Primarchs did not necessarily assume direct control over their legion immediately. Quite a few of them spent a number of years at the Emperor's side elsewhere. Typhon was probably recruited in that period. I'm not its confirmed precisely when Mortarion disbanded the Librarius either, it may have been in operation for a while even after he assumed command. He may have spent a period increasingly sidelining it before taking the step of entirely disbanding it. Crysos Morturg looks like he was recruited post discovery of Barbarus and was also part of the librarius for a short while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Huh, so if this is right, there is a spot left for the Grey Knights.Man, they really don't want Sev as grey knight theory to die. Ran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel_of_Blood Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) Huh, so if this is right, there is a spot left for the Grey Knights. Man, they really don't want Sev as grey knight theory to die. Ran No that’s all 8 slots taken. And they’ve all gone to Titan already. Edited February 22, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka Removed tangential discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 So Emp discovers Mort, and Mort receives private tutoring on Terra for maybe 3 or 4 years tops. I mean...the Emp knows he needs to conquer the galaxy as swiftly as possible to beat Chaos (that's the whole point of the Primarchs), but it does make some sense to invest in their education upon recovering them. Anyway...while Mortarion is "in school", the Dusk Raiders continue being the Dusk Raiders in terms of culture and doctrine but do immediately take in a large number of Barbaran raw recruits. These recruits need time to ascend to Astartes (maybe a year). After Mortarion returns from school and takes over the legion, he probably renovates the whole legion within a year. Yeah...that's not a lot of time for Typhon to become prominent as a psyker I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Mortarion was tutored long enough for Malcador to decide to tell him about the Webway project, wasn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 So Emp discovers Mort, and Mort receives private tutoring on Terra for maybe 3 or 4 years tops. I mean...the Emp knows he needs to conquer the galaxy as swiftly as possible to beat Chaos (that's the whole point of the Primarchs), but it does make some sense to invest in their education upon recovering them. Anyway...while Mortarion is "in school", the Dusk Raiders continue being the Dusk Raiders in terms of culture and doctrine but do immediately take in a large number of Barbaran raw recruits. These recruits need time to ascend to Astartes (maybe a year). After Mortarion returns from school and takes over the legion, he probably renovates the whole legion within a year. Yeah...that's not a lot of time for Typhon to become prominent as a psyker I think. Depends how powerful he is, I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymell Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 So Emp discovers Mort, and Mort receives private tutoring on Terra for maybe 3 or 4 years tops. I mean...the Emp knows he needs to conquer the galaxy as swiftly as possible to beat Chaos (that's the whole point of the Primarchs), but it does make some sense to invest in their education upon recovering them. Anyway...while Mortarion is "in school", the Dusk Raiders continue being the Dusk Raiders in terms of culture and doctrine but do immediately take in a large number of Barbaran raw recruits. These recruits need time to ascend to Astartes (maybe a year). After Mortarion returns from school and takes over the legion, he probably renovates the whole legion within a year. Yeah...that's not a lot of time for Typhon to become prominent as a psyker I think. The timeline details on Mortarion are a bit blurry, but if we take what we have at face value, it's possible he was being "re-educated" for 80 years. According to the discovery order, he was found between Perturabo (30,849) and Lorgar (30,857). But in Daemonology, we see him in-training on Terra 70 years before 31,007, i.e. 30,937. Personally, I think that's a bit excessive, and probably more due to a lack of over-arching oversight than truly intentional, but it's still possible, and either way can be taken as an indication that he was being taught there for a long time. DarkChaplain 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Mortarion was tutored long enough for Malcador to decide to tell him about the Webway project, wasn't he? I feel that's more a testament to his readiness to go walkabout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 How long would it have taken the Dusk Raiders to become the DG after Mort's discovery? Maybe a year or two at most? Looks like the new short by Swallow is set about a year post-discovery and while Mortarion hasn't led them himself yet, they've been renamed to Death Guard. That is, going by the description on the store. Tymell 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggtand Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Mortarion was tutored long enough for Malcador to decide to tell him about the Webway project, wasn't he? Not quite. From Daemonology: Morty saw a big portal being constructed in the dungeons and deduced that it was some sort of warp portal. Loathing Morty and big E for dabbling in sorcery. Morty was at that time close to rebel and leave because he despised both Malcador and big E for being psykers and that the empires foundation rested on psykers. Malcador tried to appease him by showing him the plans for banning psykers at Nikaea and that mollified Morty to a degree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliesin Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 My copy is underway and arriving tomorrow. Looking forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) This topic isn't for discussing who thinks what of of James Swallow's writing and/or works in general, nor is it a topic to discuss his work in any other IP than GW's Warhammer 40'000 and/or the Horus Heresy settings. Please stick to discussing what happens in the novel. Edited February 22, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka Added a smidgen of (necessary) courtesy. Kelborn 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gongsun Zan Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) I've only read the "present day" Death Guard sections (which is only about 20 to 25% of the book), but if you're interested in the doom of the Death Guard, skip this book.There's no build up, tension, or character development. Contrary to what you would expect from a story about Nurgle, everything happens so fast - the Death Guard literally just fall over and transform like popcorn.Typhus's plotting is so obvious is laughable, and Morty comes across as the dumbest Primarch in the entire galaxy. I think having some of the story told through the eyes of the rank and file would have helped immensely (as in Fulgrim), but the book skips on that entirely.In short, Dark Imperium was a better DG book than this. Edited February 23, 2019 by Gongsun Zan Pathstrider and wtwhizz 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagashnee Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Whats the other 80% then? It can't all be grey knights surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Whats the other 80% then? It can't all be grey knights surely? Flashbacks to Barbarus, from what I’ve seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gongsun Zan Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Whats the other 80% then? It can't all be grey knights surely? The chapters alternate between DG and Grey Knights, with the DG chapters split between the present and flash backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Did I misread the beginning or is nobody talking about the huge bit of info on the Lost Legions (or at least one of the primarchs)?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 (edited) If there's two things I've learned about the Death Guard in this novel, it's: 1) They're resilient and 2) something something whipcord. Not sure what you mean about the missing legions stuff? Edited February 24, 2019 by Apothecary Vaddon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonreaper666 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 If there's two things I've learned about the Death Guard in this novel, it's: 1) They're resilient and 2) something something whipcord. 2? I thought Lucius is connected to the Thousand Sons, not the Death Guard? It is strange that Ahriman and Lucius know each other but Khârn and Typhus The only connection between the latter two is that both fought Azrael... ...but only one defeated him like a true Chaos Champion! (Clearly Khorne is the most powerful Chaos God) (Though Nurgle is better at corrupting people, considering it was his champion that swayed Luther to fall) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Did I misread the beginning or is nobody talking about the huge bit of info on the Lost Legions (or at least one of the primarchs)?? Could you please elaborate in spoiler tags? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFox Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 I have the book but I'm still too far behind to read it right now. Spoil me everything already :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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