Prot Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Hey guys, I've been struggling a lot with my Thousand Sons lately. My gaming groups typically identify them as my most 'player friendly' armies which is code for, "We love kicking your Thousand Sons" around. I'm thinking one way of doing this is adding something from Forgeworld, but what? I've added a dual Soul Burner Petard Decimator, and quite frankly even with debuffs, I can rarely keep it alive. My other thought is something... I don't know what, with Butcher Cannons (since the Imp side loves their Leviathan with Butchers). Other thoughts include Scorpius, and anything with Lascannons. I also have a single dual lascannon, Sicaran tank that does double duty in both my Thousand Sons and Ultramarines (It isn't painted) but quite frankly at over 200 points it's the same cost as my Decimator and often doesn't do anything. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has some good experience with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 ... code for, "We love kicking your Thousand Sons" around. Sadly how it usually goes... but at least it means you can quickly identify the real meaning I was poking FW earlier today for Chaos ideas and didn't come away with any silver bullets unfortunately. The trouble for me is long ranged AT, and with how Sons are I expect the same issue with them once they get going. The Sicaran looks good but I think you'd need a couple and it falls under the "fancy autocannon" umbrella which, apparently, is really large at FW? Butcher Cannons are good, albeit shorter ranged, but it seems that the FW options for Chaos aren't extensive. Certainly if you're looking for something a bit special. What do you feel you're missing/the problem is in particular? It sounds like saturation may be what you're looking for? The old "one is dead" at play, but it goes a long way to helping against a savvy opponent blasting your capabilities off the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 My issue is definitely armour... or vehicles. I'm not great with hordes as I don't incorporate Daemons into my Thousand Sons yet (they got sold with the last Thousand Sons army). So I do struggle with masses of Ork Boyz/grot shields, etc. But if it's a Knight... or definitely a parking lot style lists. Originally I took Magnus out of my lists in 8th edition because he seemed too good. The funny reality is I think it's the exact opposite now. If you don't get first turn he's very likely done, and even if you do, one poor psychic phase and you're missing a lot of points really quickly. (Deathwatch are just too good at doing this for dirt cheap). I know that otherwise Magnus would be the answer for most my vehicle /Knight issues. But I -refuse- to run Magnus with Mortarion on a fluff basis. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Butcher Leviathans are great. I run 2 in my lists often and I have never felt like they weren't worth it. They are a fancy autocannon for sure, but they have enough shots at high enough S to be at least somewhat threatening to pretty much any unit. The grav bombard for it has also really hurt. I've never run one but my opponent has and it tears armor up. I've been thinking about buying a few soon since I magnetized my Leviathans. Another option for anti armor is C beamers. I am getting an Osiron Contemptor just for fun, and I picked up a few c beamers for it. At max range they're really pretty scary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 So how did you do this? Was it ever a consideration to use Decimators with the Butcher Cannons? Or did you just buy the standard (loyalist?) Leviathan chassis and do a few loyalist Storm cannon arms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 The only thing I haven’t tried is a leviathan. Decimators, contemptors, dreads, butcher cannons, hell forged preds; none of these things have ever earned their points for me. I’d love to run rapier batteries, but that is verboten. I run the same 2k list and all it has is rubrics, SOTs, Ahriman, and a daemon prince. Sometimes I’ll run a pair of rhinos with combi meltas. IOW, it’s a rogue trader list with newer models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I just used the loyalist option. I emailed FW ahead of time and they said the Storm cannon array model is officially the same as the Butcher cannon array, at least until they release a model for the Butchers. I added some horns and icons from TS kits to chaos it up a bit (still need to do this for the second one). I have seen cheaper counts-as Leviathan kit bashes made out of Redemptors that weren't too bad (especially for the cost). I didn't get the Decimator just because the Leviathans were my first FW purchase and I hadn't seen a Decimator in action at the time, but I've been thinking about adding one or two with Soulburners lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 I just used the loyalist option. I emailed FW ahead of time and they said the Storm cannon array model is officially the same as the Butcher cannon array, at least until they release a model for the Butchers. I added some horns and icons from TS kits to chaos it up a bit (still need to do this for the second one). I have seen cheaper counts-as Leviathan kit bashes made out of Redemptors that weren't too bad (especially for the cost). I didn't get the Decimator just because the Leviathans were my first FW purchase and I hadn't seen a Decimator in action at the time, but I've been thinking about adding one or two with Soulburners lately. I do love mine. It actually works well as it can keep up with the army fairly well and it does punch through Knights very well. The problem is I bought only one and it's just so easy to get rid of. They are about a 100 points cheaper than the Leviathan Butcher dread but far less random. It's nice just to need to hit though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I just used the loyalist option. I emailed FW ahead of time and they said the Storm cannon array model is officially the same as the Butcher cannon array, at least until they release a model for the Butchers. I added some horns and icons from TS kits to chaos it up a bit (still need to do this for the second one). I have seen cheaper counts-as Leviathan kit bashes made out of Redemptors that weren't too bad (especially for the cost). I didn't get the Decimator just because the Leviathans were my first FW purchase and I hadn't seen a Decimator in action at the time, but I've been thinking about adding one or two with Soulburners lately. I do love mine. It actually works well as it can keep up with the army fairly well and it does punch through Knights very well. The problem is I bought only one and it's just so easy to get rid of. They are about a 100 points cheaper than the Leviathan Butcher dread but far less random. It's nice just to need to hit though. Well, it's cheaper to add two more of those than to add 2 Leviathans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliomanes Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 If you play Leviathans, you have to do so in an environment with few Castelan Knights, I'm afraid. Love the model, but it isn't necessarily what I'd field if I want to step up my game and bring a more competitively oriented list. I might have interpreted your opening post wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsSons Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 I playba Levi with my Minotaurs and I can just say its a beast, due to the 4++ and WS/BS of 2+. Havent play that model with my TS though because I prefer play the 2 FW contemptors models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 If you play Leviathans, you have to do so in an environment with few Castelan Knights, I'm afraid. Love the model, but it isn't necessarily what I'd field if I want to step up my game and bring a more competitively oriented list. I might have interpreted your opening post wrong though. I'm not sure I would agree with this. I play in a fairly competitive environment and you could say that statement about almost any vehicle in the game. Don't bring "X" if you have Castelans. I mean they can rip anything apart but I don't think that's the reason i wouldn't take a Leviathan. You buff it, you debuff shooting at it... you roll your invulns and cross your fingers, or you don't take any expensive vehicles and spam the table with Plague bearers and Tzaangors. I understand that's how 'competitive' Thousand Sons are played but I have a personal desire to stay somewhat true to the background. I think Magnus (and Morty) are in an even worse spot than a Leviathan. A simple squad of Deathwatch (which are in a TON of soup lists now) can easily (too easily if you ask me) delete a Fly-march. Harlequins do phenomenal damage to vehicles even in competitive play.... I just think it's impossible in today's meta to avoid ALL of the magic bullets. But in the same breath I can admit spending 300 points on a super-dread is a scary prospect. I just don't know how to stay within the codex and compete against what I'm facing lately. It's pretty rough. I could be doing some things wrong though too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Leviathans are better than most vehicles with their native invuln that is easily buffed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliomanes Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Cool. How do you want to keep it alive, then? Target saturation? You'll have to build the list around it in some way, and I'm not sure how well it would do in a competitive setting. I've tried doing the old monster mash type of list with my own Leviathan, but I find that they struggle. Buffed invuln or not. Would love to be proved wrong though. I have a lot of "big" models I've lovingly painted and converted, but find that I am a little constrained by my wish to bring a fluffy force into pretty competitive tournament settings, and still do allright.And yes, I think Magnus struggles as well in a competitive setting.I disagree on your point with vehicles. As you said, you're comparing a big, expensive centerpiece kind of model with "any vehicle", which I think is an unfair comparison. If I bring my dunecrawlers along my admech, for instance, they are cheap enough that I'm really happy if the opponent spends his heavy duty firepower on them and not something else. Magnus and the Leviathan aren't in the same position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 I disagree on your point with vehicles. As you said, you're comparing a big, expensive centerpiece kind of model with "any vehicle", which I think is an unfair comparison. If I bring my dunecrawlers along my admech, for instance, they are cheap enough that I'm really happy if the opponent spends his heavy duty firepower on them and not something else. Magnus and the Leviathan aren't in the same position. I don't think I understand, or even disagree with what you're saying above. Cool. How do you want to keep it alive, then? Target saturation? You'll have to build the list around it in some way, and I'm not sure how well it would do in a competitive setting. I've tried doing the old monster mash type of list with my own Leviathan, but I find that they struggle. Buffed invuln or not. Would love to be proved wrong though. I have a lot of "big" models I've lovingly painted and converted, but find that I am a little constrained by my wish to bring a fluffy force into pretty competitive tournament settings, and still do allright. And yes, I think Magnus struggles as well in a competitive setting. Well all I have now is a Decimator. The Decimator + my Sicaran tank are a better combo. What I'm wondering is if I start combo'ing a few Decimators and a Leviathan. I can help them out somewhat with the buffs/debuffs, and it might start giving me an edge on the shooty armies I face. Not sure though.... I mean this is why I started the thread. I have a very good record with my other armies, but like I said my lack of willingness to make soup is probably hurting me here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are Verlo Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 And if you play with some half-decent terrain it’s not too hard to LoS block the Levi from some longrange anti-tank. Magnus is much harder to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamika Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Is the Hell Blade that bad nobody even remembers it exists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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