Vanguard Primaris Marines - Intro Thread

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I thought that was just a Templar thing, Grimaldus says it to Cyneric in Blood and Fire.

[Blindhamster]

 

 

 

 

As far as Chaplains are concerned, the skull mask is only one of their defining features, and probably not the most important one either. Their wargear (eg": crozius arcanum & rosarius) seems far more ubiquitous to me, as does their black armour (which I believe represents that they serve the Emperor directly, or that they are Emperor's representatives within the chapter, or something like that anyway ☺). Anyway, there have been Chaplain models made without a skull helm, or with a highly stylised one at least, but their armour has always been black and they've always had a crozius and rosarius as well.

 

Yes and no. The Skullhelmet is one of if not the most important part of their gear. It represents the Emperor because they represent the Emperor. That's also why they never take off their helmet while others are around once they become Chaplain (scenarios where the helmet gets damaged etc not counting obviously). At least that's the current lore for them.

 

 

That being said while I see the issue with taking part of the iconic look of Chaplains and put it on another unit, I don't really see an in-universe reason why it shouldn't be done as long as they don't walk around acting as if they were Chaplains.

Chaplain in blood of iax doesn't always wear his

I admit I didn't listen to all of it since I kept falling asleep on the train. I guess there are always exceptions to the rule and some Chaplains who take it less serious than others. ^^

He is even bare headed on the cover!

[Panzer]

 

 

 

 

As far as Chaplains are concerned, the skull mask is only one of their defining features, and probably not the most important one either. Their wargear (eg": crozius arcanum & rosarius) seems far more ubiquitous to me, as does their black armour (which I believe represents that they serve the Emperor directly, or that they are Emperor's representatives within the chapter, or something like that anyway ☺). Anyway, there have been Chaplain models made without a skull helm, or with a highly stylised one at least, but their armour has always been black and they've always had a crozius and rosarius as well.

Yes and no. The Skullhelmet is one of if not the most important part of their gear. It represents the Emperor because they represent the Emperor. That's also why they never take off their helmet while others are around once they become Chaplain (scenarios where the helmet gets damaged etc not counting obviously). At least that's the current lore for them.

 

 

That being said while I see the issue with taking part of the iconic look of Chaplains and put it on another unit, I don't really see an in-universe reason why it shouldn't be done as long as they don't walk around acting as if they were Chaplains.

Chaplain in blood of iax doesn't always wear his

I admit I didn't listen to all of it since I kept falling asleep on the train. I guess there are always exceptions to the rule and some Chaplains who take it less serious than others. ^^

He is even bare headed on the cover!

 

I ... never looked at the cover? :D

Seriously I only listened to it because I had an audible token and nothing else that was particularly interesting to me so I didn't really pay much attention to something like the cover or such. 

Not to mention that helmets tend to get damaged on the battlefield so the cover could've been just an in-action shot after he had to remove it. :P

[Prot]

So as far as the Vanguard are concerned, do you think it’s too much to ask for 3 different ammo rounds and Deepstrike? Remember, this is year end for GW and they want to move boxes!

[redmapa]

So as far as the Vanguard are concerned, do you think it’s too much to ask for 3 different ammo rounds and Deepstrike? Remember, this is year end for GW and they want to move boxes!

 

If you're talking about the Vanguard in general then I would personally prefer the units to have more utility to complement each other than having a set of specialized ammo (though I wouldnt complain if that turns out to be the case). The Chem Reivers look interesting and certainly have a lot of potential, their helmet seems to hint at  a predisposition towards hazardous enviorments that may or may not be of their own making, they have antennas so longer ranged comms so taking those two things I would love these new troops to have access to close combat weapons and special grenades that buff friendly units or weaken enemy units (essentially painting them for other units to attack), perhaps even aiding deep strikers or interrupting enemy arrivals.

 

I hope that tomorrow is the end of daemon engine rumor and finally show what the Possessed look like and then next week we can start seeing what the rest of the Vanguard looks like and hopefully pre-order the box next week because we've seen like a third of it and I seriously freaking want it already.

[ShibeKing]

I think sfPanzer is thinking about Blood Angels Chaplains. If I remember correctly, it says they never remove their helmets in front of regular battle brothers in Dante. 

 

I might be the only person who likes the Reiver skull helmets. 

[Ascanius]

I like them well enough, although I'm also fond enough of painting Astartes faceplates in different colours from the rest of the helmet that a) it scratches that itch a little and b) being designed to be painted a different colour makes it even easier than other helmets to do whatever colour you want, even if you're just using silver instead of white as mentioned by Spaced Hulk.

 

I can imagine White Scars Reivers with black or red "skulls", for instance.

[Laughingman]

For those who feel the vanguard are out of place in a space marine force, remember that during the Great crusade the Legions of old deployed similar units namely Seekers and Recon squads in relatively large numbers (Seekers were an adaption of Proto-XX Legion formations, while the Recon Marines squads and formations were laid out in the Principia Belicosa.)

[Dracos]

So as far as the Vanguard are concerned, do you think it’s too much to ask for 3 different ammo rounds and Deepstrike? Remember, this is year end for GW and they want to move boxes!

 

I love the theme of Legion style fighting in the 41st .... as long as it is well thought out and isn't just bloat. Curious how this special ammo business might eventually effect Vindicare.

[Triszin]

FLYING MARINES WITH HELVRINE AUTO CANNON AHHHH

 

 

I needs it

[Ishagu]

Straight from the other topic, after seeing the new heavy weapon trooper:

 

This is awesome. Remember there are unique armour modifications for each type of unit and unique wargear also.

 

This could be some highly armoured drop trooper, not a flying unit. They grav down into a good position and start blasting from range. Implication that they won't get shot at until after their first chance to shoot. I also imagine the grav chute is completely optional.

 

Massive levels of hype. The Primaris range is on the cusp of being a complete army

[Triszin]

Straight from the other topic, after seeing the new heavy weapon trooper:

 

This is awesome. Remember there are unique armour modifications for each type of unit and unique wargear also.

 

This could be some highly armoured drop trooper, not a flying unit. They grav down into a good position and start blasting from range. Implication that they won't get shot at until after their first chance to shoot. I also imagine the grav chute is completely optional.

 

Massive levels of hype. The Primaris range is on the cusp of being a complete army

 

I imagine the gun is Assault 2, 48" range, Str 8, Ap-2, Damage 3

ya, the aesthetics match the Macro Accelerator Cannon from teh astreues

 

assault 2 with those stats on a flying unit would probably be op.

I could see Rapid Fire 2, 48" range STR 8, ap-2, Dam 2

[Ishagu]

Not if pointed correctly. Look at how efficient the Helverins are. Their gun is similar and they throw out 8 shots that deal 3 flat damage for 170 points on a toughness 7 platform that moves 14" a turn without penalty to fire and has an invul save.

[Knightsword]

I love the idea of this unit. The scale of the cannon on him reminds me of the Harkonnen cannon that Seras from Hellsing uses. Do we reckon it's a grav-chute on his back, or a full Inceptor jump pack?  

 

Really looking forward to this release.

[Triszin]

I love the idea of this unit. The scale of the cannon on him reminds me of the Harkonnen cannon that Seras from Hellsing uses. Do we reckon it's a grav-chute on his back, or a full Inceptor jump pack?  

 

Really looking forward to this release.

I think its a "half inceptor"

 

something that allows him to hover/fly but his movement isn't a full flyers.

 

imagine it is to get these guys in superior positions and rain hell down

[Dumah]

If they should possess the fall back and shoot rules of jump troops, they could be a boon to White Scars players...provided there's ever a chance you'd want to charge them. Is it too much to hope for a melee profile for clobbering with the big guns (I"m kidding...sort of. Not really)? 

[FlamingDeth]

Pretty sure a melee profile is out of the question, it's not like devastators have a profile that let's them use missile launchers like a baseball bat. Definitely looks like a grab chute on these guys, but that would make the feet goofy.

[Tamiel]

The ammo-feed on the gun looks like it could be firing projectiles. The shape of the barrel, especially near the end, makes it look like it could fire some sort of beam. Knowing GW, it might be a safe bet to say that the kit will have two loadouts, one that fires bolt rounds and one that fires an energy beam.

Also, I don't think these guys will be flying. They seem to be equipped with grav chutes (and extra grav chutes on their feet, probably because of their weight).

Finally, some people were saying their weapons might be assault. I highly doubt that, given the bulkiness of the guns and the symbol on the marine's right shoulder. These look like heavy weapons for sure, and the "Heavy Support" symbol on the guy's shoulder makes it unlikely that they will be assault weapons. Heavy Support units in the SM codex usually have Heavy weapons.

So, to wrap up, my prediction is that these guys are deep striking heavy weapons guys, most likely with the option to kit them out with bolt weapons or energy beam weapons.

[Marshal Reinhard]

So what's reasonable for these guy's movement? They lack the jump thrusters of inceptors, but have the repulsor plate boots. Then they have grav chutes like Reivers.

 

So doubtful they can fly like the inceptors, but they got getup to do more than just drop down like gravchute reivers?

 

EDIT: I suppose the repulsor boots could just be to offset the fact they appear to be in full power armor, and are brandishing very heavy looking weapons. I initially figured the guy in the image was actively floatiing and aiming the weapon, but it's a still image. He could just be coming in for a landing.

[Volt]

 

 

I love the helmets. I don't get the problem to be honest, skulls are everywhere in the Imperium.

The issue is, it goes against the design aesthetics, save a few chapters.

 

If they were needed to have skull helmets I much would have prefered a variation of xenos and human skull helmets.

to show that these people are not just terrors to humans, but to the other species of the galaxy also.

 

 

I never saw the Reiver masks as a terror symbol the way we might use that imagery today to unnerve human adversaries (think the Punisher as a somewhat exaggerated example). I think you're absolutely right when you imply that our meaning attributed to the skull - that being a symbol of death and mortality - wouldn't mean much at all to xenos. But I didn't ascribe that meaning to it to being with because the skull means something different to the humans of the 41st millenium. In short, I didn't see a link between what we think of that symbol today and what they might think of it in the setting.

 

I always thought the frequent use of a skull as a symbol across the Imperium was because it's the face of the Emperor. In this way I took the Reiver skull motif to be a tool to send a very personal message - the Emperor sends his regards as the Reiver stabs you in the neck. 

 

As far as the actual model looks - I think they look amazing with the skull helmet, but I totally see where people are coming from vis a vis Chaplains. 

 

It's a bloody space marine. They could be wearing a pink tutu and singing it's a wonderful life and it'd still be the most pants-gakking experience for any human or alien able to feel fear on account of it being the adeptus astartes. Slapping a skull on it doesn't suddenly make them scary, it makes them look like a cringe-y marketing appeal to the young call of duty crowd who love that Ghost character to death because of a silly skull baklava. All a Space Marine needs is a cameoline cloak with a storm bolter, they don't need a skull helmet that turns them into a walking non sequitur.

 

 

So what's reasonable for these guy's movement? They lack the jump thrusters of inceptors, but have the repulsor plate boots. Then they have grav chutes like Reivers.

 

So doubtful they can fly like the inceptors, but they got getup to do more than just drop down like gravchute reivers?

 

EDIT: I suppose the repulsor boots could just be to offset the fact they appear to be in full power armor, and are brandishing very heavy looking weapons. I initially figured the guy in the image was actively floatiing and aiming the weapon, but it's a still image. He could just be coming in for a landing.

Jes might have also jumped the shark and gone full mobile suit marines. 

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Would it not be more likely that the boots are designed to keep him stationary while firimg a massive gun, rather than mobile? You know, like the Devastator legs?

[Volt]

Would it not be more likely that the boots are designed to keep him stationary while firimg a massive gun, rather than mobile? You know, like the Devastator legs?

How would anti-grav tech that makes you float and removes your friction and jump jets prevent you from flying backward from the recoil?

[Marshal Reinhard]

Those are big heavy boots while these repel gravity. Unless they have a reverse setting or something

[Sword Brother Adelard]

That's kind of what I mean, having a massive gun, which people are theorising fires hyper velocity rounds, and flying boots seems a bit counter intuitive.

Is he definitely hovering in that shot? It could just be poor perspective.

[Marshal Reinhard]

He's not grounded. Both his legs are slanted forward. No balance at all to be had in that pose. But it's a painted image. It doesn't convey motion very well. Like I said he could just be landing, or just as well be taking off, or be hovering in place.