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New Primaris Vanguard sound an awful lot like DW?


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23 replies to this topic

#1
Krom4095

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Anyone else think the description of the new Primaris Vanguard unit sounds a lot like DW, or possibly even Reiver/DW fusion? Not very unique or original IMO, but models look good (if very similar like Dark Angels vets).

"Trained in covert operations, these ruthless killers operate behind enemy lines as saboteurs, assassins and infiltrators. While the Intercessors and Tactical Squads execute their wars out in the open, these guys fight in the shadows – and they fight dirty."

I wonder if they'll be allowed in DW fortis kill teams?

Edited by Krom4095, 08 February 2019 - 03:27 PM.


#2
Biscuittzz

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Anyone else think the description of the new Primaris Vanguard unit sounds a lot like DW, or possibly even Reiver/DW fusion? Not very unique or original IMO, but models look good (if very similar like Dark Angels vets).

"Trained in covert operations, these ruthless killers operate behind enemy lines as saboteurs, assassins and infiltrators. While the Intercessors and Tactical Squads execute their wars out in the open, these guys fight in the shadows – and they fight dirty."

I wonder if they'll be allowed in DW fortis kill teams?

 

And DW are unique or original in comparison to the Raven Guard or Alpha Legion how? You know, the legions known for being saboteurs, assassins and infiltrators?



#3
Charlo

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The only thing partially similar is the special ammo. Otherwise Snipers/ Camo Cloaks etc aren't really Deathwatch' MO!



#4
Gederas

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The only thing partially similar is the special ammo. Otherwise Snipers/ Camo Cloaks etc aren't really Deathwatch' MO!

That being said, these guys would definitely look pretty good painted up in the Black for Deathwatch.


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#5
Black Blow Fly

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I'll take that 3+ .


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#6
Syward

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Hmmm... intriguing. I wonder if they'll have rules for use in DW or not? At the very least, they'd be good to represent a member of the Raptors/Raven Guard/etc. in a standard Fortis KT.



#7
Boyadventurer

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Most of the Primaris units have been sorta mash ups between two regular astartes units (inceptors = assault + moritat, reiver = scout + assault, aggressors = terminator + centurion), so a scout + sternguard mashup seems pretty reasonable.

 

Now my two big hopes are 1) it's not just our usual SIA. Give them maybe an anti infantry shell and anti tank shell (almost like frag and krak missiles tbh) or something, but please don't just give out our SIA to what will be the hot new unit. And 2) don't pull this "you can't replace the left shoulder so they can't be Deathwatch" crap.


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#8
Syward

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Now my two big hopes are 1) it's not just our usual SIA. Give them maybe an anti infantry shell and anti tank shell (almost like frag and krak missiles tbh) or something, but please don't just give out our SIA to what will be the hot new unit.

 

I have to agree here - even if they have rules to allow them to be used in DW - I think they should have a unique ammo to help make them stand out and have a function. I hope it's not just "they get DW SIA & have rules to target characters".

 

 

And 2) don't pull this "you can't replace the left shoulder so they can't be Deathwatch" crap.

 

Looking at the models, it does look like we won't be able to replace the left shoulders as they're covered by the Cloaks, but it'd still be easy enough to make them DW. Just use the exposed left knee or the round bit of the backpack if you want the iconography on the armor. Or we could even use the cloak itself and paint a small DW logo on the left shoulder of the cloak. (Like these Templars from the Knightfall TV series)


Edited by Syward, 08 February 2019 - 06:19 PM.

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#9
Black Blow Fly

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" Give them maybe an anti infantry shell and anti tank shell..."

 

That is a Termpest shell .


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#10
Krom4095

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And DW are unique or original in comparison to the Raven Guard or Alpha Legion how? You know, the legions known for being saboteurs, assassins and infiltrators?


True enough. It was just that my mind instantly thought DW when I read this unit's background and description of their battlefield role. Minus the specific xenos hate, of course. Anything exotic/special regarding ammo screams DW, at least to me.
Hopefully DW can add some of these guys to their KTs.

#11
Laughingman

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The Vanguard Primaris likely have more in common with Heresy era Recon and Seeker squads then the Death watch.


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#12
Mr4Minutes

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At the presentation, they said all marine armies can take them. But they’ve been wrong before. I’m getting the box and hoping we can take them day one.

#13
Finkmilkana

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They kinda sound more like mini vindicare assassins to me. Before 8th those also had different types of ammunition (Shield-breaker, Turbo-penetrator and Hellfire).
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#14
Krom4095

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I didnt know that about Vindicares as I just got into 40K w 8th. Would be pretty cool if they still had it. Maybe WD in March will be extra kind to assassins.

Back on topic with regards to Primaris Vanguards, I guess it'll have to be in some sort of DW FAQ/errata after the Vanguards drop that would give the specific rules & costs to add them to a DW Fortis KT? I hope GW is on the ball with regards to this.
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#15
Lemondish

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I didnt know that about Vindicares as I just got into 40K w 8th. Would be pretty cool if they still had it. Maybe WD in March will be extra kind to assassins.

Back on topic with regards to Primaris Vanguards, I guess it'll have to be in some sort of DW FAQ/errata after the Vanguards drop that would give the specific rules & costs to add them to a DW Fortis KT? I hope GW is on the ball with regards to this.


It's also possible they remain separate. We still don't know how detached this Vanguard component is. I think it's much more likely that they will simply be added to DW as their base units first and stay that way for a long time.
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#16
Finkmilkana

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If their weapons are similar to current snipers (i.e. heavy), I’m honestly not even sure if I would want them to be included in a combined squad. Putting snipers that want to stay still in the same unit as shorter ranged stuff often risks the unit not performing at the peak capacity of its constituent parts. It’s a bit less of an issue with the beta bolter rules, but still...
If they are a more mobile type of sniper (certainly possible with their ‘vanguard’ branding), being able to mix them in could great though.
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#17
thinkerofuselessthings

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I doubt that from a background prospective, vanguard primaris should be introduced into deathwatch.

 

Their warfare behaviour is drastically different. They are (from what we know) stealthy and do dirty things. Deathwatch is different. They are veterans, hardened space marines (primaris or not) that face xenos foe without subterfuges. 

 

Vanguard Primaris are inevitable Raven Guard-esque force.

 

But this is my vision.

 

From a market prospective I think that this incredible Librarian shall cover my repulsor for years to come!


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#18
Mr4Minutes

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I’ve read some fluff. DeathWatch most definitely do stealthy and dirty things.

If the new sniper primaris replace scouts and have infiltrate, I just hope we can take them. I’d be less worried about putting them in furor teams at that point.

Although, hypothetical rules changes, if the stalker and heavy plasma hellblaster gun get buffs(or points decreases) putting a few sniper primaris in some long range squads may be good.
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#19
Black_Knight

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The scout Primaris are a little weird so far, along side Reivers. There seems to be no negative to taking them over Intercessors, unlike scouts which have a lesser save but cost less and have a role. Reivers are still 3+ so they seem to overlap a little too much.

 

With these new snipers I am trying to figure out why they overlap with Stalker Intercessors especially with the new formation rule that gives them the sniper rule.

 

I love the models but Primaris overlaps too much and the models need to be separated more. If they aren't going to separate them with armour save I wonder what else they will do.


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#20
CCE1981

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The scout Primaris are a little weird so far, along side Reivers. There seems to be no negative to taking them over Intercessors, unlike scouts which have a lesser save but cost less and have a role. Reivers are still 3+ so they seem to overlap a little too much.

With these new snipers I am trying to figure out why they overlap with Stalker Intercessors especially with the new formation rule that gives them the sniper rule.

I love the models but Primaris overlaps too much and the models need to be separated more. If they aren't going to separate them with armour save I wonder what else they will do.


Interesting thought, Intercessors and Reivers do overlap when you give the the Assault Bolt Rifle/Carbine. However I doubt the Sniper Rifle will require 3CPs, to operate. I am wondering if the sniper rifle and ammo will be useful though. Thinking about I think that only 3 ammo types would be useful.

*warning*Thoery crafting only*

Sniper bolt rifle - heavy 1, Str -, AP -2, Damage 2 - wounds Titanic models on 6+, vehicle or monstrous on 4+, all other models 2+. Can target characters even if not tge closest target.

Ammo:
-Mortal Coil - causes 1 mortal wound instead of normal damage
-Gyro-tracking - ignores penalties to shooting
-Explosive - d3 shots, Str 4, AP -, ignores cover

I think that would round out the usefulness of a Sniper Rifle without overshadowing any other weapon or into DW territory to much.
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#21
Finkmilkana

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I don’t think they will have a fixed 2+ to wound, that would make them (comparatively) too strong against very big models like Calgar or Abaddon. I more expect something around Str 5-6 and maybe an alternative anti-vehicle shell.

Edited by Finkmilkana, 13 February 2019 - 03:52 PM.


#22
noigrim

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looks like classic scouts to me


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#23
Plasmablasts

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If there is going to be a variety of Vanguard units, I wonder if DW might get a new Kill-Team that allows you to combine the Vanguard units together but not with the other Primaris units. I can see GW doing that if they’re worried about interactions.

#24
Danny Cyanide

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A Vanguard Kill Team to go along with the Fortis Kill Team!
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