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Thoughts about the new codex


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#1
antique_nova

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So, I've just looked at the whole of the codex and the first things I notice are. (After looking at it for about 30 minutes)

 

There's a hell of a lot of characters! How in the four armed god's name are we meant to keep track of them all! I mean it's worse than the Druhkari codex! XD

 

I like the Achilles ridgerunners with the heavy mortar and survey augar. Good range. Good firepower and ignores cover. hmmm. yum! Only problem is that it's D6 shots.....

 

A unit with a special rule where you cannot DS within 12" of them and not the normal 9" that everyone else abides by. Yes please! I'll take two and stick them on my flanks and out of LOS! My opponent's will hate them! biggrin.png

 

Can someone explain to me by some dirt bikes are as fast if not faster than land speeders, jetbikes and the like? I mean, they don't have particularly powerful engines and should not even be that fast. 12" at the very most. I feel that they should be as fast as jump packs, but have a greater chance of advancing further on average, say that when they advance you can choose to roll a D6 or auto advance 3" or you could do a rule where advancing is D6+1.

 

Atalan Jackals. Nice, but lack any real weapons, but great objective grabbers.

 

Ouch! GSC Leman Russes have the same defective plasma vents as the forgeworld versions, well more or less, while the Imperial Guard (I can't get used to calling them Astra Militarum, it's just such a mouthful and nowhere near as catchy!) get the lovely brand new ones. I mean, why can't they? Since they can easily pop up on any Imperial World and commandeer the latest model of Leman Russes.

 

Tectonic Fragdrill - Why is GWS introducing all of these all of a sudden? First with Imperial Knights and now this. I don't understand, it's not very good or reliable and you can't destroy it? What? Seriously? That's just pure plot armour nonsense. I should be able to destroy anything that my opponent brings to the board to use against me. I mean we can already do that with 99% of fortifications except this and the Imperial Knight one. It just seems like GWS realises this and doesn't want people to destroy it. I get it if this thing is meant for narrative play, but apart from that, it's next to useless. Also, for what it does for points cost, it's way too much and it's reliable to work the way you want it until about turn 3-4, but by then most games are already decided.

 

No flyers. Interesting.

 

Am I the only one thinking that the Patriarch with it's giant tail curling up at you from between it's leg looks kinda. erm. weird?! I mean if you take your head out of the gutter, it just doesn't seem right. If you look at any creature with a tail, they always point away from the body and behind it. If they're doing to attack you with it, they will normally swing it around and over their body like a scorpion. Not underneath and between their legs. Not even in a power pose. It just looks really bad. XD I mean, the rest of the model looks great, but the tail... yeah. XD

 

Cult Creeds

 

Reroll all hit rolls for attacks made with melee weapons in every fight phase. Gimme. Gimme. Gimme!

 

6+ invul or +1 invul and infantry models can move and shoot heavy weapons as normal. +4 invul save genestealers! Hot dammit! And they can still advance and assault! Hot damn nice!

 

+1 to Sv if enemy weapon is AP0 or AP1. Plus bikers can move and shoot heavy weapons and advance and shoot assault weapons normally. Hot damn! That's a straight rip from Thousand Sons! And it's across the entire army! This is my favourite and I will not hesistate to spam it!

 

+1S and +2 to advance rolls. Very, very, very nice. Not sure if it's really needed, but nice nonetheless.

 

Verdict: I would either take the +1 invul or the +1 Sv. Depends really on what army I build at the end of the day, but don't be surprised if these two are spammed like crazy. The others are still good and I'm surprised to see no alpha legion/raven guard traits. I mean it's a standard stratagem, but GSC have 4 very nice traits and 2 okay ones. Probably the best set in the entire game. I'm not going to lie, this is amazing!

 

Stratagems:

 

Lurk in the Shadows: Like the Death Guard Cloud of flies, but for GSC infantry only. Very nice.

 

Rigged to blow: Vehicle auto explodes. Nice!

 

Cult Reinforcements: Very very nice! Perfect for those difficult moments!

 

A perfect ambush: Very costly, but think of another Slannesh Endless cacophony or mini warptime after someone deepstrikes. Very deadly. 

 

Return to the shadows: Combine this with 'A perfect ambush'. Beware, this is like the Eldar redeploy stratagem. Very useful and cheap. Very versatile.

 

Lying in Wait: Deepstrike within just 3" from any enemy unit you say, but cannot charge? Yes please! Combine this with 'A perfect ambush' this will hurt Dark Reapers! Ouch. And double ouch! Yes it costs 5CP to do this, but it can be an absolute game changer! Especially now that there is no sudden death in every mission now. However, you now need to find a unit with good enough shooting to pull this off.

 

Extra Explosives: Where the hell did they find so many explosives. I mean, why the hell do you want to charge a 10 man unit that can throw 10 grenades at you whenever it shoots or overwatches for just 1CP? Insane right? Yeah, I thought so too!

 

Drive by demolitions: Nice. Very good for shooting and objective grabbing. In short, a biker unit can shoot (cult specific) and then move like normal in the shooting phase, but cannot charge. So, shoot and then move 17" on average with advance rolls. Oh and it's only 1 CP. expect this to be spammed like the 4th of July!

 

Psyhic Powers:

 

Cannot overwatch (WC7): YOU WHAT! This has an 18" range, targeted unit fights last and has a -1 to hit and boy oh boy. Watch the triggered Tau cry! XD Well, it only affects one unit, but still, it's huge! 

 

Mind control (WC7): 3D6 leadership check. If it equals or surpasses, then you can shoot with your opponent's model. So imperial knights beware!

 

Relics: Nothing to write home about.

 

Overall verdict: Difficult to tell, but they seem to be more of an add on army (I'm sure that this was the intention) as they have no unit that really seems to stand out. No real strong shooting, but decent close combat abilities. They seem to fit the theme (I haven't read the lore yet) or feeling like a mining company that's been overrun by Tyranids and are slowly turning into them. However, they have strong traits and they excel at picking off stragglers, especially during late game. Also, if you want to go Mad Maxx in the 40k universe. This is the army to do it with!


Edited by antique_nova, 10 February 2019 - 04:55 PM.

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#2
brother_b

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Add on army? With the huge release and brand new models? I don’t think so. This is a fast horde army that can get in your face and do damage, big damage. Remove buff chars and the army starts to lose coherency.

This is a full fledged army by my take. Good overview I agree with a lot of your takes. I can’t decide on my cult yet. Pauper or 4 armed....... but cog looks interesting.
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#3
Sonoftherubric21

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Yeah I have to disagree with the end assessment of them being an "add on" army. 

 

Read the codex front-to-back twice and internalized most of the rules that I care about and most of the kits. It feels like an incredibly solid book Horde army with solid melee and as stated above: solid damage output. Our shooting is fine but it is mostly short range.  

 

I actually think Russes + Ridgerunners with mining lazers (my pick) is enough shooting when focusing the right targets for our purposes while lots of big units pop up in front of the opposing line, few units coming out of trucks, and sanctus and alphus putting out threat on characters due to sniper rifles (or even in melee with that bio-dagger.....pretty solid!) 



#4
WickedJester1013

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I like the fact that no one unit stands out. I say the army was designed to work together to undermine the enemies power. Before the codex genestealers stood out and it was the only real way to win. Spam stealers. Now sure you have good units like the aberrants and stealers that could hold there own, but everything does better when combo’d or supported. For example neophytes and acolytes are weak at first. But you can take a 20 man shotgun unit for around 100 points or a 20 man acolyte unit with hand flamers for only 160 points. Ambush then 3 inch away with the laying in wait and now you have 40 +1 strength shotguns to clear chaff or 20 d3 hand flamers.
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#5
Nusquam

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A couple things I'm a fan of in no particular order:

Relic Sniper rifle for the Sanctus; +2 to the roll means wounding T4 on a 2+ and a mortal wounding a 4+. With him able to shoot twice on your turn or interrupt on your opponent for free seriously threatens psykers.

Kellermorph; pure character killing or infantry mulching. I'm bringing two in a double battalion with Neophytes and shotguns to unload on troops.

Frag drill; perfect vantage point for snipers or hiding mortar HWTs. Or if you place it backwards you can set up lascannon or autocannon HWTs too and have great vantage and cover. If the mission doesn't have dynamic scoring, or depending on timing if it does, you can set up the tip near an objective to help keep it clear.

Broodcoven; basically free three WLTs if you take 4AE cult to get the D3 command points trait and two other god traits. This cult due to their counter spell strat is going to be one of two battalions in competitive GSC lists.

Ambush Markers/blips; pure quality info wars. Always use them, don't let YouTubers tell you if you go first there's no point. There is; the less your opponent is certain of the better. Even better if you're going second. You can screen your entire zone. Around here people don't play beta rules so turn one commander bombs and the like are still popular.

Lying in Wait + hand flamer acolytes. Now that HFs are d6 shots you'll be roasting things in droves. Combo with a Primus to help with wounding.
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#6
antique_nova

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A couple things I'm a fan of in no particular order:

Frag drill; perfect vantage point for snipers or hiding mortar HWTs. Or if you place it backwards you can set up lascannon or autocannon HWTs too and have great vantage and cover. If the mission doesn't have dynamic scoring, or depending on timing if it does, you can set up the tip near an objective to help keep it clear.

Okay, so you use the building to hide objectives in and since it's the only piece of terrain that you can move around freely (albeit in your own DZ only), it's a good catch. Slightly less expensive than an Imperial bunker or bastion, but people are hardly going to destroy that, but they'd have to, to get to the unit inside, where are you can't do that if you have your unit sitting there exposed unless you sit a character there, but snipers.

 

I've seen people grab an Imperial Bunker and sit a squad of dark reapers and whatnot in their. And it's frustrating as hell for the opponent as T9 20W +3 models are not easy to get rid of.

 

Still, I'd rather spent the points to grab another character or squad to cap that home objective.


Edited by antique_nova, 10 February 2019 - 05:10 PM.

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#7
Nusquam

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Still going to take it because it's awesome.

#8
Arson Fire

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6+ invul or +1 invul and infantry models can move and shoot heavy weapons as normal. +4 invul save genestealers! Hot dammit! And they can still advance and assault! Hot damn nice!

Afraid no 4+ invul save genestealers.  Genestealers and Patriarchs don't get the bonuses from cult creeds.

They still have the <CULT> keyword, so can use aura buffs and stratagems and such.  But cult creeds specifically say they don't apply to things with the Genestealer keyword.


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#9
ShadowCore67

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Drive by demolitions + extra explosives + alphus = 5D6 demolition charges hitting on 2+ and wounding on most likely 2+.

Jackals are gunna be fun.

Edited by ShadowCore67, 11 February 2019 - 05:50 AM.

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#10
Kallas

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Relic Sniper rifle for the Sanctus; +2 to the roll means wounding T4 on a 2+ and a mortal wounding a 4+. With him able to shoot twice on your turn or interrupt on your opponent for free seriously threatens psykers.


Could you clarify on this, please, as I can't see anything that lets them "interrupt"?

#11
GarvielEisenhorn

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Relic Sniper rifle for the Sanctus; +2 to the roll means wounding T4 on a 2+ and a mortal wounding a 4+. With him able to shoot twice on your turn or interrupt on your opponent for free seriously threatens psykers.


Could you clarify on this, please, as I can't see anything that lets them "interrupt"?

 

 

I think they're taking about the perfect ambush strategem that let's a Cult Ambush unit move D6" or shoot as if it's your shooting phase immediately after being set up. Since the ambush tokens are revealed at the end of your opponent's movement phase (assuming they get first turn) you could put the Sanctus on the a token with line of sight on an enemy character and immediately take a shot at it.

 

At least, that's how I think it works...


Edited by GarvielEisenhorn, 11 February 2019 - 07:50 AM.

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#12
TrawlingCleaner

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The jackals look very cool, but the only role that I can see them working in is close range or zipping back to get objectives. Not too sure on good loadouts for them either, I was thinking shotguns and cultist knives for everyone, grenade launcher for one, power axe for sergeant and heavy flamer for the wolfquad. They have next to no range and the heavy kinda gimps the mining laser for the quad

#13
Kallas

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At least, that's how I think it works...


Ahh yes, that makes sense and is pretty nasty! I thought I was completely missing something about the Sanctus specifically, but that combo is still quite cheeky!

#14
Sonoftherubric21

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Interesting game tonight. Played against a 2000 point Knights only list. 

 

As it turns out: we have very little issue with Knights in reality. Game ended in a tie when all was said and done. 

 

couple of leman russes, a rock grinder, and a full unit of aberrants + abomination work wonders against knight armies evidently. 

 

I used Twisted Helix for this game and it worked out so well I am truly impressed with the cults ability to handle itself! Wonderful codex so far with a solid ruleset. 


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#15
Toomanyprojects

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Highly highly impressed with the new codex, and I also have some thoughts on the army:

 

- This is definitely Codex: Your Style - want a massively shooty army that can wipe your enemies from the board with battle tanks and cheap heavy weapons? Yup. Want an army that swamps your opponent with sheer numbers? Yep. Want an army who's special rules mean you can apply massive pressure to the enema army? Yep. and so on. I don't think i've seen a codex that offers a wider range of tactical choices or play styles, so bravo there GW.

 

For me personally, I prefer a massively damaging Alpha strike as my main tactic and I've noticed the below which should work for me:

 

- Both the Kelermorph and Abominant are wonderful for this. The Kelemorph (particularly when equipped with the Opressor's bane pistol to give an extra shot) is capable of mowing through entire units of guard, fire warriors, aspect warriors and marine scouts in one round of shooting. The Abominant is okay as is, but i prefer to buff him substantially with the twisted Helix trait, The Twisted Helix relic and the Biomorph adaptation warlord trait. Add to this the occasional casting of Might from Beyond and suddenly you've got a guy who hits with 6 S18 Attacks causing minimum 3 damage each. Paired with a Primus to help negate the -1 to hit makes him massively dangerous and his ability to double the hits of nearby aberrant units is doubly so. And if that werent enough, the ability to cult ambush means that you will never have much trouble getting him stuck in.

 

- Cult Ambush 'Blips' don't really complement this play style. The majority of my units will be set up underground in order to pop up close range to the enemy, although the stratagem to move three blips underground will be handy for messing with people smile.png

 

- Vehicles also don't really fit for me. Whilst they can 'blip' they cant go underground and the points that they take up can be better spent on bodies and handheld weapons.

 

- In the interest of causing maximum impact as quickly as possible, the twisted helix cult tactic helps out an awful lot by making your troops hit harder in close combat, which (with a few notable exceptions) is where they should be.

 

- Characters are essential - The Primus makes the 'hammers' of the army hit harder, as does the Magus (both by buffing your own troops and knackering the opponent's). The Jackal Alphas enhance the shooting in a similar manner. The Primus is also quite an impressive war leader in his own right, especially when paired with the 'stop hitting yourself' relic (Scourge of Stars?). The Locus and Sanctus help deal with enemy characters (if your kelermorph isn't available), the Calamavus is a general Harass / Buff unit and the nexos is good for clawing back those spent CPs

 

- Bodies, bodies and more bodies in the army guys - don't skimp on the basic troops otherwise you'll find yourself in an uphill battle from the start.


Edited by Toomanyprojects, 11 February 2019 - 11:19 AM.

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#16
Halandaar

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Quick query; would Telepathic Summons require reinforcement points set aside for it to work in matched play, like Daemonic Ritual?


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#17
Toomanyprojects

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Quick query; would Telepathic Summons require reinforcement points set aside for it to work in matched play, like Daemonic Ritual?

 

Yes, I believe that they would. This could be set out in the codex somewhere, but I'm at work at the moment so don't have access to it.


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#18
Halandaar

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Yes, I believe that they would. This could be set out in the codex somewhere, but I'm at work at the moment so don't have access to it.

 

I can't see it mentioned anywhere in the Codex itself which is why I thought I'd ask, but as far as I remember, it's not mentioned in the Daemons book either as it's a restriction of matched play specifically, rather than 40k overall. On that basis, I'll assume it does require reinforcement points to use.

 

Shame really, because without the ability to generate a free unit, the stratagem might as well read "Spend 2CP and sacrifice a psychic phase to achieve the same deployment your units could do for free anyway."


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#19
ShadowCore67

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Yes, I believe that they would. This could be set out in the codex somewhere, but I'm at work at the moment so don't have access to it.


I can't see it mentioned anywhere in the Codex itself which is why I thought I'd ask, but as far as I remember, it's not mentioned in the Daemons book either as it's a restriction of matched play specifically, rather than 40k overall. On that basis, I'll assume it does require reinforcement points to use.

Shame really, because without the ability to generate a free unit, the stratagem might as well read "Spend 2CP and sacrifice a psychic phase to achieve the same deployment your units could do for free anyway."

Yes summoning is almost useless in matched play. However we do have a 1cp strat that lets us return D6 slain models to atroops unit. Not as good but still helpful

#20
Closet Skeleton

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- Both the Kelermorph and Abominant are wonderful for this. The Kelemorph (particularly when equipped with the Opressor's bane pistol to give an extra shot) is capable of mowing through entire units of guard, fire warriors, aspect warriors and marine scouts in one round of shooting. The Abominant is okay as is, but i prefer to buff him substantially with the twisted Helix trait, The Twisted Helix relic and the Biomorph adaptation warlord trait. Add to this the occasional casting of Might from Beyond and suddenly you've got a guy who hits with 6 S18 Attacks causing minimum 3 damage each.

 

- Cult Ambush 'Blips' don't really complement this play style. The majority of my units will be set up underground in order to pop up close range to the enemy, although the stratagem to move three blips underground will be handy for messing with people smile.png

 

You can only have half of your army underground in matched play. I'd expect the FAQ to confirm that you can't move blips underground if you're already at the deep strike limit.

 

S18 is pointless, S16 is the most you ever need and S12 is fine most of the time.



#21
GarvielEisenhorn

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The jackals look very cool, but the only role that I can see them working in is close range or zipping back to get objectives. Not too sure on good loadouts for them either, I was thinking shotguns and cultist knives for everyone, grenade launcher for one, power axe for sergeant and heavy flamer for the wolfquad. They have next to no range and the heavy kinda gimps the mining laser for the quad


I was thinking Rusted Claw to get rid of the hit penalties for moving and giving them Shotguns, Demo Charges and maybe a Mining Laser for 87 points total.

Add the Alphus and pick the biggest thing I can get close to with the target designator. Pop the extra grenades strat as well as the Rusted Claw +1 to hit/wound strat and dump 4D6 Demo Charges hitting on 2s into the unfortunate target and get the hell out of dodge before the rest of their army blows them away.
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#22
Halandaar

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Not a rules observation, but I found the use of the plurals "Maguses" and "Locuses" throughout the Codex really jarring. I can't understand what the reasoning is to not just use "Magi" and "Loci".


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#23
MajorNese

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Add the Alphus and pick the biggest thing I can get close to with the target designator. Pop the extra grenades strat as well as the Rusted Claw +1 to hit/wound strat and dump 4D6 Demo Charges hitting on 2s into the unfortunate target and get the hell out of dodge before the rest of their army blows them away.

Jackals can have up to 15 models (even if there's just 4 in each box), but only 5 demo charges may be thrown. So maybe add a biker or two to make full use of the extra explosives (5d6), while having a few spare wounds to not lose efficiency when spending the 2 CP.


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#24
Nusquam

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The jackals look very cool, but the only role that I can see them working in is close range or zipping back to get objectives. Not too sure on good loadouts for them either, I was thinking shotguns and cultist knives for everyone, grenade launcher for one, power axe for sergeant and heavy flamer for the wolfquad. They have next to no range and the heavy kinda gimps the mining laser for the quad


I was thinking Rusted Claw to get rid of the hit penalties for moving and giving them Shotguns, Demo Charges and maybe a Mining Laser for 87 points total.
Add the Alphus and pick the biggest thing I can get close to with the target designator. Pop the extra grenades strat as well as the Rusted Claw +1 to hit/wound strat and dump 4D6 Demo Charges hitting on 2s into the unfortunate target and get the hell out of dodge before the rest of their army blows them away.

This is another unit to use Lying in Wait on. Gets you within grenade range and you can't charge from Drive By anyway. It would be 4 CP for this combo but it's effective. If you have Kelermorph come in behind them and kill something first you can get 2+ with a reroll to hit. If you want to out a Primus down to reroll wounds of 1 you could really obliterate a T4 or less unit.

#25
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There might be a place for close combat Jackals if you run them with power hammers (+2S, -1AP, 1D) and cultist knives in a Twisted Helix battalion.  Each model is putting out one strength 6 attack and 1 strength four attack, with the leader getting two at S6.  It's not massive, but for tying up units and dealing some damage it could be good.  If you could augment it with Might from Beyond to push their strength and attacks a little more they could also be a real threat to light armour.  I'd be more excited if Improvised weapons worked like chainswords/cultist knives so each model could have three S4 attacks in Twisted Helix.  As is, the improvised weapon is a total waste.






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