helfrost: how to fix it, what to change discussion

[NatBrannigan]

I'd love to see a Space Wolf Hellblaster squad with Hellfrost Cannons. Not very helpful here, but still!

[Gherrick]

I'd love to see a Space Wolf Hellblaster squad with Hellfrost Cannons. Not very helpful here, but still!

Long Fangs should get them also, but I agree, GW needs to make marine-sized versions of hellfrost bigger than pistols.

 

As for the effect, I'm also in favor of a movement-related penalty. Since most have two fire modes, I'd suggest that the single-target mode can only effect single model units, and blast-mode can only affect multi-model units. On a hit, roll a d6; on a 4+ unit gets a -1 to hit and can't move for a turn (flyers must switch to hover if they must move). Pistols are a bit of an edge case since they only have one fire mode, and I'm thinking they shouldn't be that good vs vehicles. Probably best to deny them any additional effect.

[Triszin]

hmm

 

we could keep it simple

all hefrost with the below firing profiles have this rule for the selected profile:

 

 

pistol through helfrost cannon

Dispersed: does d3 reduction to movement values.

 

focused: does D3 reduction to values, if  the target is a Monster or Flyer roll a D6 instead.

 

helfrost destructor

Dispersed: does d3 reduction to movement values.

 

focused: does D6 reduction to values, if  the target is a Monster or Flyer roll a 2D6 instead.

 

 

 

*note: values do not stack- if you roll a higher reduction value, with the same type it replaces the lesser reduction.

 

example

Focused 4+ roll replaces disperesed of 3 or less

 

and if the weapon only has one fire mode, it only does the disperesed D3 reduction?

 

 

hows these?

[GrFlur]

hmm

 

we could keep it simple

all hefrost with the below firing profiles have this rule for the selected profile:

 

 

pistol through helfrost cannon

Dispersed: does d3 reduction to movement values.

 

focused: does D3 reduction to values, if  the target is a Monster or Flyer roll a D6 instead.

 

helfrost destructor

Dispersed: does d3 reduction to movement values.

 

focused: does D6 reduction to values, if  the target is a Monster or Flyer roll a 2D6 instead.

 

 

 

*note: values do not stack- if you roll a higher reduction value, with the same type it replaces the lesser reduction.

 

example

Focused 4+ roll replaces disperesed of 3 or less

 

and if the weapon only has one fire mode, it only does the disperesed D3 reduction?

 

 

hows these?

 

mm destructor I asume is bigger so...

 

what about adding fixed reducction for those two

 

like:

 

pistol:

Dispersed: 1d3

Focused; 1d3,if  the target is a Monster or Flyer add 1 to the movement reduction.

 

So we go for a bigger gun...

 

cannon

Dispersed: 1d3

Focused 1d3 if  the target is a Monster or Flyer add 2 to the movement reduction

 

destructor

Dispersed: 1d3

Focused 1d3 if  the target is a Monster or Flyer add 3 to the movement reduction

[DanPesci]

I would keep stuff simplified on the actual effect. Having a different 'helfrost effect' for every weapon fire mode seems really bloaty to me.

 

'Focused' and 'dispersed' would stay simply affecting the base shots/strength/ap/dmg etc, but then the 'reduced movement' would always be the 1d3 if hit.

 

 

I get the crunch of why people want faster flyers/monsters slowed down more...but I dont really see fluff wise why they would be affected more (if anything, smaller, less tough things should 'freeze' easier no???)

 

 

Ill be honest, i find the whole idea of helfrost rather derpy, and i dont tend to take them as its all a bit wolfy iceworld mr freeze gimmick.....

 

but would happily see some better rules/utilisation for those who DO want to use it. So Gonna throw in another idea here (which I sure I suggested back in 7th too), for bringing helfrost into the infantry, yet having it have a place between melta and plasma that suits our playstyle a bit.

 

 

 

 

- Grey hunters get 'Helfrost gun' - Assault 2 24" S6 AP-2 D1

 

This would mean grey hunters can advance and still fire their guns, and provide support to other units/CC elements by not allowing other units to fall back.

 

 

- Long Fangs get 'Helfrost Caliver' - Assault 3 36", S6, AP-2 D1

 

Keeps it unique in that its now a devastator squad that can move and still fire at no penalty.

 

I'd have each priced slightly under their plasma counterparts.

 

 

 

Special rule - Helfrost - Any unit that suffers a hit by a helfrost weapon reduces its movement by 1d3 for the duration of one turn.

 

Strategem - Blizzards Teeth 1CP - Before a unit armed with helfrost weapons fires, play this strategem. If their target unit suffers a wound from a helfrost weapon, it can no longer choose to fall back from combat until 1 game turn has passed. Only one unit can ever be the target of this strategem at any one time.

 

(maybe up this to 2CP and it does 1d3 mortal wounds as well?)

 

 

I've made the strategem only work on wound rather than to hit, as it seems more fluffy than bigger/tougher targets (e.g. an imperial knight) would be harded to freeze in place than some infantry. Being limited to a strategem also means you cant spam lock an opponents entire front line into combat, but can still pick key targets.