Horus Heresy Book 8: Malevolence

[noigrim]

More like everyone expected Horus or Sangy to me warmaster and only the manchilds Perutrabo, Angron and Mortarion made a temper tantrum

[Nova_Dew]

More like everyone expected Horus or Sangy to me warmaster and only the manchilds Perutrabo, Angron and Mortarion made a temper tantrum

 

Didn't The Lion also complain it should have been his? or is that just a meme?

[Ficinus]

The Lion, I'm almost certain, brooded over not being warmaster.

 

Was Dorn also a bit upset by the decision? I know he gets Praetorian of Terra, but was he still angry at not being Warmaster?

Edited May 16, 2019 by Ficinus

[bluntblade]

Dorn never cared for being Warmaster, as far as I could glean. The Lion was known to want the job badly.

[Darkwrath121]

In the newest look at the Lion during the crusade (First Legion), he essentially turned down the idea/offer of being warmaster.

 

"Then what do you wish to be known for, my liege?"

"That I was ever, and only, thus. The hunter, the slayer of beasts."

 

I do hope they soft-retcon that to be the case across the board, since it fits his character better to not care about the attention/title and just stick to his duty. Is more interesting than how he's been characterised before, particularly in older books.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Darkwrath121

[Marshal Rohr]

What’s First Legion?

[Darkwrath121]

What’s First Legion?

Short story from the Scions of the Emperor anthology (event only for now). Is about the DA being the only legion holding back the xenos during the Rangdan Xenocides, and "Alpharius" appearing to meet the Lion. Edited May 16, 2019 by Darkwrath121

[Marshal Rohr]

Who wrote it? That sounds cool?

[Darkwrath121]

Who wrote it? That sounds cool?

Chris Wraight. I'm personally a big fan of his depiction of the Lion in both that book and the Russ primarch novel.

[Nova_Dew]

Depending on when First Legion is set, it could just be The Lion tempering his pride and desire to lead or at least hiding it with time, if it's during the heresy maybe even distancing himself from the whole warmaster thing, if it's pre ullanor, he wouldn't know of the idea of warmaster so he couldn't care.

 

Personally i think that would be a more interesting character development for the Lion than a soft retcon to get rid of aspects of his persona or his desire to be warmaster, after all the Primarchs are humans writ large and should have flaw's to match and all of them were known to be prideful, have a lust for power and a need to conquer, otherwise none of them would have risen to positions of power on their home world's or being competent leaders of their legions.

 

To get rid of or play down those aspect's in The Lion seems to me at least to diminish him somewhat, he goes from being prideful, having a lust for power and more than a little arrogant and stubborn but loyal to the point of threatening Robute over the idea of Imperium Secundus as being traitorous and capturing Curze as a play thing to someone who's content and want's to be left alone to pursue his hobby, which he could have been until he found out about the position of warmaster.

 

While First legion does keep the pride and arrogance (he does still capture Curze so he can play fatal tag with him and his desire to be the best hunter) the playing down of the other two aspects of him seems to not be in character for a primarch, they were made to be leaders after all

[Darkwrath121]

- Snip-

It's set 150 or so years before the Ullanor/heresy, and the idea of warmaster is a key part of the plot, but it does make clear that he turned down 'rulership' of Caliban (pre-Emperor) for the same reason that he turns down the idea in the Crusade era.

 

*Some general spoiler-type stuff, I can't figure out tags on mobile*

 

He had the opportunity to stack the cards in his favour, but he turns it down and goes "the offer changes, the answer never does." The story is more or less focused on the idea of the Lion being offered power and not caring. Same way Tzeentch could find nothing to tempt him with both in his youth, and during the Heresy.

 

While he could well have changed his tune over time, it makes for a more interesting character imo than the idiotic decision maker he gets often written as.

 

TL;DR: Wraight is seemingly trying to tone down the Lion's character. Proud, but not demanding of attention.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Darkwrath121

[Marshal Rohr]

Was the Lion found 150 years before Ullanor? Russ, Ferrus, Fulgrim, Vulkan, Dorn, Guilliman, and Magnus were found between 830-840.M30.

[rendingon1+]

I don't unerstand this entire nerdrage behind "Lion wanted to be a warmaster" thing. What's wrong with that? If you apply for a high position job because you believe you're the right person and have qualifications and acheivements to back it up, are you really arrogant? Though it's a rhetoric question, the naswear is obviously: no.

 

Fallen Angels (where Lion-Warmaster comes from) was a :cussty book with lots of logical and plot errors, the way Mike Lee attempted to represent Lion's personality traits was nothing less than forced, hamfisted and ridiculous and just for the sake of it.

Edited May 17, 2019 by rendingon1+

[Darkwrath121]

Was the Lion found 150 years before Ullanor? Russ, Ferrus, Fulgrim, Vulkan, Dorn, Guilliman, and Magnus were found between 830-840.M30.

The short story is set in the 860s. So yep :)

 

Means he was active for a while before then.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Darkwrath121

[Marshal Rohr]

Oh wow, that’s news to me. Thanks!

 

*rubs hands together menacingly*

[Gederas]

What’s First Legion?

Short story from the Scions of the Emperor anthology (event only for now). Is about the DA being the only legion holding back the xenos during the Rangdan Xenocides, and "Alpharius" appearing to meet the Lion.

Scions of the Emperor is purchasable now outside of events. One is sitting at my local GW (Warhammer Chapel View in Cranston, RI) with the other Primarch books.

 

This is interesting to me, might pick it up.

[Darkwrath121]

 

 

What’s First Legion?

Short story from the Scions of the Emperor anthology (event only for now). Is about the DA being the only legion holding back the xenos during the Rangdan Xenocides, and "Alpharius" appearing to meet the Lion.

Scions of the Emperor is purchasable now outside of events. One is sitting at my local GW (Warhammer Chapel View in Cranston, RI) with the other Primarch books.

 

This is interesting to me, might pick it up.

Really? Not to be confused with the previous events anthology, Sons of the Emperor. Cool if so, though.

[Gederas]

 

 

 

What’s First Legion?

Short story from the Scions of the Emperor anthology (event only for now). Is about the DA being the only legion holding back the xenos during the Rangdan Xenocides, and "Alpharius" appearing to meet the Lion.

Scions of the Emperor is purchasable now outside of events. One is sitting at my local GW (Warhammer Chapel View in Cranston, RI) with the other Primarch books.

 

This is interesting to me, might pick it up.

Really? Not to be confused with the previous events anthology, Sons of the Emperor. Cool if so, though.

Oh, no. My bad. It was Sons of the Emperor :lol:

 

Damn GW and Black Library using too similar names :lol:

[Lucifer216]

What did people make of the narrator attributing the push to convert the Blood Angels at Signus to Lorgar, rather than Erebus?

 

If it is a deliberate mistake, it seems an odd choice.

[Sandlemad]

I took it as a pretty deliberate choice designed to make the limited in-universe nature of the narrator clear to the reader. Like a signpost dropped in the text as a reminder that they don't have access to the kind of information we as out-of-universe readers of the BL novels and such have.

[b1soul]

@ Nova Dew

 

"While First legion does keep the pride and arrogance (he does still capture Curze so he can play fatal tag with him and his desire to be the best hunter)"

 

Eh...what? Have to read this

[Darkwrath121]

@ Nova Dew

 

"While First legion does keep the pride and arrogance (he does still capture Curze so he can play fatal tag with him and his desire to be the best hunter)"

 

Eh...what? Have to read this

The stuff with Curze isn't in First Legion. He's either referring to Unremembered Empire or Angels of Caliban with the part mentioning Curze.

[Nova_Dew]

@ Nova Dew

 

"While First legion does keep the pride and arrogance (he does still capture Curze so he can play fatal tag with him and his desire to be the best hunter)"

 

Eh...what? Have to read this

it was 8:30am when i posted that and i was only on my first coffee at best ;), i should go back edit and clarify, should be:

 

"While First legion does keep the pride and arrogance (his desire to be the best hunter and in Unremembered Empire he does still capture Curze so he can play fatal tag with him)"

[MegaVolt87]

Pretty sure Horus himself talks about his brothers reactions about him becoming warmaster in one of the books. The Lion is mentioned as one of the brothers unhappy with the choice. 

[b1soul]

In Unremembered Empire, the Lion is hunting Curze after Curze flees an engagement aboard the Invincible Reason (leaving his sons to die). The Lion doesn't capture Curze then let him loose...not that I recall.