Thousand sons daydreaming

[Are Verlo]

This thread is meant as a positive "let´s help them get it right" thread. Keep the suggestions positive and let´s not turn green with envy when looking at other fractions and other armies fielding multiple detatchments from different fractions.

 

The last two codexes, Orks and GSC, were really good. There are lots of good options and ways to play with those codexes.

Inspired by reading both I think we should do a brainstormingsession and come up with suggestions that might lead to more different thousand sons units being used.

 

These ideas can be as simple as new stratagems to completely reworking datasheets (not very likely, but we can daydream)

 

Insipred by GSC:

 

Stratagem ( 1 CP): "Silver tower phalanx " Fluff: "Using portals/tears in reality the thousand sons march their Rubricae into battle"

Play this stratagem at the start (or end?) of the movement phase. Return d6 slain rubrics to a rubric marines squad.

 

Better bolters beta rule

All is dust, modify saves as now, but add: And this unit can always rapid fire it´s inferno bolters and combi-inferno bolters

 

Remorseless and implacable: Add this to rubric marines and scarab occult

This unit can fall back and fire in the same turn.

 

Arcane reality tear ( 1 CP) 

Play this stratagem during deployment. Set up 1 thousand sons unit with power level up tp 20 (no magnus) in reserves. At the end of any movement phase that unit may arrive as reserves. Set the unit up within 9" of two thousand sons units with the psycher keyword.

 

And I would love it for all types of "flamer weapons" such as flamers, warpflamers and so on, to get either a range increase or increase them to 2d6 hits. It might seem like much, but as of now flamers are often a downgrade from bolters and other weapons. 

[Brother Crimson]

There is already a bit of new for the sons of Magnus with beta bolter ( they get it as they are Heretic Astartes)

 

Anstratagem to increase flamer range would be nice.

 

Change temporal manipulation to either heals D3 or return a slain infantry model (apothecary like ability)

 

BTW I don’t turn green with envy of other codex when it comes to thousand sons, it’s a very good codex. Options are limited because of unit choices but there is still a few ways to run the army.

 

What was sad it how rubric and terminators were bad but beta bolter and points drop might help them to find a role. A big unit Ap-2 rapid fire bolter that can self cast a -1 to hit power and get +1 to wound has potential if priced right.

[BoomWolf]

Well, the issues with the TS codex as it stands, the way I see it, and by order of importance:

 

1-The "legion tactics" does literally nothing for an even larger swat of unit than it usually does for marines. our cultists and helbrutes have zero effect, heck even our unique tzaangors have zero effect! it needs to do something more than a simple range buff to spells, because the legion tactics right now are basically "HQ or you don't care", leading to our army being a supreme

 

2-Really small unit selection. basically, we need more units, and especially actual SONS units, not "attachments" like goats and the vortex beast. there are currently 0 actual sons FA units, all actual sons HS units are identical CSM ports, the HQs are practically all variations of a sorcerer (even the prince is basically "very souped out sorcerer") with zero uniqueness or flavor, etc.

Basically, there is a need for more options. especially in the non-HQ-character department. (where we only have the shaman, who supports exactly goats and nothing else), but also in the realm of unique war machines and/or infantry squads. the fact there is a list of existing TS unique units in HH to base them on, that some other armies actually have for some reason (2 armies have psyker dreads, but we don't. TS were supposed to be the ones that invented these!) is just adding insult to injury.

 command "lead" to what is essentially another army.

The fact this is only being furthered by issue #1 (because why bother with a TS helbrute who has literally nothing to offer over a generic CSM brute without any legion. and the fact ANY legion would be strictly superior. except word bearers, but they are the worst subfaction in any army in the game for a reason.) even the "TS unique" tzaangors and vortex beasts actually don't care if they are in a TS detachment at all, as long as you got one elsewhere to unlock their stratagems.

 

3-Spells. oh boy they are bad. the TS specific list that is. and for an army supposedly built on magic, this is horrendous.

Temporal manipulation is strictly worse than nurgle daemon's fleshly abundance (even with our legion tactics applied)

Glamour is strictly worse than DG's miasma of pestilence (even with our tactics applied)

Doombolt is the only charge 9 spell in the game, and isn't that much better than most charge 6-7 "witchfire" spells.

Firestorm is insanely weak, and has an expected output lower than a mini-smite.

Boon of mutation is basically a janky fun spell, but nothing you can play any sort of strategy around.

Weaver is a direct port form CSM, and the only spell on this list who's NOT a meme.

Basically, the TS spell list, the "masters of magics", is probably the single worst spell list out there. with many of them being quite honestly insulting.

 

4-prices. they are still too high for some things (for example, the two flamers are still far too expensive), and some things just don't match up well. This is better post CA18, but still some things stick out (why would you ever take exalted over ahriman), especially index stuff who kina got ignored on pricing (disc sorcerer costing about as much as disc exalted)

 

5-stratagems. too many are highly specialized, or plain weak. more than once I find myself ending a game with CP to spare, because there are too few noteworthy outlets. and too many stratagems feel like even at 1CP-they are too expensive. this is even more glaring in our unique strats. (soul flare, flesh change, sorcerous pact, inferno bolts, fated mutation, vengeance for prospero -did any of you use a single one of them even once?)

 

6-CSM inconsistency. the fact CSM rubrics have a soulreaper at 5 man squads and we don't is still really annoying. either take their's away, or give us too.

1-The "legion tactics" does literally nothing for an even larger swat of unit than it usually does for marines. our cultists and helbrutes have zero effect, heck even our unique tzaangors have zero effect! it needs to do something more than a simple range buff to spells, because the legion tactics right now are basically "HQ or you don't care", leading to our army being a supreme

[WarriorFish]

A way to return Rubrics to action would be great, fluffy too I wouldn't mind seeing improvements elsewhere also, I think Boom covers a lot of what people may be unhappy with. Mostly little things but they appear to mount up My main issue is how they seem to impact the theme of the Sons (i.e. it's not directly a rules/points thing), as they're supposed to be arcane masters of the warp with durable automaton support but it doesn't always feel like it :(

[Are Verlo]

Add to thousand sons legion strat: when a friendly thousand sons psycher targets this unit with a psychic power add 1 to the manifest roll?

[Ahzek451]

Just curious, how many of you write in to the 40kfaq email about this stuff?

[Are Verlo]

I do.

Multiple times

[MillionsSons]

I’d like 1 stratagem per TS cult. For example the one who manipulates time. I really loooved Manat story in the fluff part of the codex when he annihilated a Space marine company in a space hulk by replaying the battles again and again until they all die.

 

Could be:

2CP - Time Twister

During any phase, pick a TS unit. If you are unhappy with the outcome of that phase for this unit, roll back in tine and resolve again the shooting, fight, psychic, or charge.

[Tyriks]

That's probably too much. I do wish the various cults actually meant something, though. Maybe we will see some in Index Astartes in a future WD.

[Zodd1888]

I asked for it before the dex and I'll do it again.

 

Cult Aura/Effects for Exalteds and/or Aspirants.

 

Simple inclusion, requires nothing but a data slate update, and gives 1kS something they desperately need.

[Ulfast]

I would love some new units. Something like:

 

psychic dreadnought

"devestator" rubric marines

Some uniqe tank/daemon engine

lord of war; silver tower!

 

Basicly I want more rubric marines and less goats/monsters.

[Skerr]

Heavy weapon rubrics would be great. Maybe a bit more oomf on demonic tanks with inferno bolters and warpflamer upgrades at least.

[Heliomanes]

I'd like an actual use for Thousand Sons cultists, preferably through fluffy stratagems - like allowing us to use their lives as psychic batteries, or detonate their brains and everything around them like the expendable pawns they are. Perhaps even giving them a few cantrips or minor spells as an upgrade, to show that they are, or at least believe themselves to be initiates into the mysteries. At the moment they are simply much worse versions of the CSM codex cultists.

Zodd's idea of adding cult auras for Exalted sorcerers is solid. Really good mix of gameplay and fluff.

More than that we simply need more options. The codex is very sparse, and suffers from being a one trick pony because of it. This can be amended by adding new units, fixing the old ones that are broken, and inventing new uses for existing choices. I'm hoping for all the above, naturally.

[Ahzek451]

GW already has had the perfect thousand sons daemon engine for years and frankly I'm surprised they didnt make an attempt at it in the big wave release.

 

The doomwing and fire lord. An attack fighter and bomber from old epic 40k.

 

Thousand sons dedicated flyers, and I mean flyers, not the skimming dragon we currently have.

 

I have no doubt that either one was already underway or at least there is now for a psychic dreadnaught. Too many were asking for it and still asking for it.

[The Yncarne]

My wishlist:

- More anti-armor options

- More anti-horde options

- Nearly anything similar to 30k Sons

 

I’ve accepted goats and cultists for their roles. Now fill the others.

[Shinespider]

I'm surprised there's no custom dreadnought. With all the Egyptian theming, a walking tomb just seems like such an obvious go-to. 

 

As Heliomanes stated above, I'd appreciate a way to run Thralls / Novices - cultists as psychic fodder.

 

Moreso than anything else, though, I just want more customization on Sorcerers. The basic structure of the Thousand Sons is that it's a small number of super-powerful Wizard-lords, each with their own little retinues of automatons, demons or whatever other servants they can drag onto the battlefield with them.

 

And yet the Exalted Sorcerer is a model with a pretty trivial number of wargear options. They should be wildly customizable. 

[Tyriks]

Yeah, I think buying auras or mutations as wargear would be awesome. We might not have a ton of options but our options could have options at least!

[Amun Ra]

Havoc Rubrics

Psychic Dreadnought similar to the 30k version.

Another psychic power list, preferably that can be chosen by a different cult choice.

 

Sure there are more but those are the ones that first come to mind.

[Kite Senet]

Add to thousand sons legion strat: when a friendly thousand sons psycher targets this unit with a psychic power add 1 to the manifest roll?

 

I like this idea quite a bit. It might not be enough, but it does solve one concern I have: simply adding more units, or improving the CSM imports, is likely to decrease the army's reliance on the Rubric/Scarab/Exalted kernel of the army which I (personally) enjoy the most. I don't want R/S/E to be totally outmoded by new/improved additions to the codex; I would rather that the entire Thousand Sons codex be in a sense subservient to that R/S/E kernel, and I appreciate that this change would help add value to the R/S/E's sorcery even as it does introduce more variety in the army's flanks.

[Raven1]

Psychic Dreadnought similar to the 30k version.

 

I have been saying this since the FW index didn't include it. I feel like FW is missing out on a great opportunity. Although FW as of late seems to like missing opportunity.

 

I would like the army trait to be modified or enhanced to include benefits for non-psykers

 

Inferno-combi weapons on vehicles as a points cost not a garbage strategem.

 

Rubric dreadnoughts in addition to psychic dreads.

 

Changing all is dust to come into effect more often and something better for SOT who are already 2+.

 

A reason to take rubrics other than I feel like I should.

[Ahzek451]

Very much agree with a lot of ravens points.

 

The all is dust should at the very least change to being ignored on weapons with strength 8 or higher(double toughness).

 

There are way more weapons with damage 1+. I don't think this would be game breaking. And this rule would see more use for both rubrics and terminators.(well, maybe marginally for terminators).

 

Rubrics would be damn near perfect if they could:

-not suffer greatly when the sorcerer perils and takes most of his buddies with him due to key word shenanigans.

-the icon of flame was useful.

-all is dust includes wording that let's rubrics count as stationary when firing rapid fire and uses the new bolter rules.

-just give regular d3 smite back but not allow d6 smite.

-change all is dust from damage to strength 8+ as mentioned above.

 

As far as adding on to our legion trait: the more I think about it, the more I do like the idea that being able to fall back and shoot would work quite well. A legion trait should be based on the army's combat doctrine. Ours has always been: stay out of close combat, use guile and trickery. What better way to show this than being able to leave a ghostly mirage(use your imagination, there could be a number of ways they do this), the enemy thinks they are still slicing and dicing in combat only to find that the sons have somehow re-located and opened fire on them.

 

I like this because it's not too overpowered, fits thematically, and gives yet another boost to rubrics. Though it may be debated whether legion traits should apply to vehicles like some xenos armies....