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How are the 1.1 FAQ's playtest units?


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#1
Mazryonh

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By "playtest units" I mean the ones that received playtest rules errata from the 1.1 FAQ, such as Rapier Batteries, a Praevian's Automata, Destroyer Squads, Palatine Blades, Phalanx Warders, Medusan Immortals, and Ashen Circle. Has anyone tried the new rules for these units out in their games, or have the new rules persuaded you to buy them where you didn't have them before?

 

Also, has anyone e-mailed Forge World with their playtest experiences too? This is a rare opportunity to influence future FW rules incarnations, after all.



#2
Gorgoff

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By "playtest units" I mean the ones that received playtest rules errata from the 1.1 FAQ, such as Rapier Batteries, a Praevian's Automata, Destroyer Squads, Palatine Blades, Phalanx Warders, Medusan Immortals, and Ashen Circle. Has anyone tried the new rules for these units out in their games, or have the new rules persuaded you to buy them where you didn't have them before?

Also, has anyone e-mailed Forge World with their playtest experiences too? This is a rare opportunity to influence future FW rules incarnations, after all.

I will test some of them on tuesday and will send FW a feedback after the game.

Edit: I'll add that in my humble opinion the Xyphon is 50-60 points too expansive.

Edited by Gorgoff, 28 February 2019 - 09:44 AM.

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#3
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I've tried destroyers (DA, 3 games), new point cost, cheaper JPs and 2A base are a nice thing to have... but assault squads assault better, shooty units shoot better. I just don't know how (what would be their preferred target anyway) to use them, except of ocasional phospex toss and multicharging 2 enemy units so my other chargers benefit from rad grenades. Feel to expensive even for that.

Until they get new toys their status is still: nope.

 

Will inform FW shortly in a more constructive manner


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#4
Brother Styphus

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I'm looking forward to trying out a throwaway Moritat, as I'm not utilizing my HQ slots. Double plasma works again, so I'd like to see how he works when hopping around with artifacer armor.
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#5
Brofist

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Wow the new malcadors are super strong! Can't even believe it. Everybody should take at least 2!
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#6
Gorgoff

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Wow the new malcadors are super strong! Can't even believe it. Everybody should take at least 2!

Sarcasm?
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#7
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Who needs malcadors anyway,ha!

On the other hand decision to nerf them (as disastrous as it is) is a gameplay not marketing one, which is good. Being super heavy but using mere HS slot was obviously dictated by a need to sell Malcadors.


Edited by rendingon1+, 28 February 2019 - 08:36 PM.

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#8
Brother Pheidias

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I've tried destroyers (DA, 3 games), new point cost, cheaper JPs and 2A base are a nice thing to have... but assault squads assault better, shooty units shoot better. I just don't know how (what would be their preferred target anyway) to use them, except of ocasional phospex toss and multicharging 2 enemy units so my other chargers benefit from rad grenades. Feel to expensive even for that.

Until they get new toys their status is still: nope.

 

Will inform FW shortly in a more constructive manner

I've yet to build the army, but I'm running them in either a Black Reaving or Fury of the Ancients alongside Reavers with volkite and chainaxes respectively, with a scattering of Contemptors and Deredeos...



#9
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Getting rid of malcs basically removed 10% of my poor milita's army list

What I'm saying is, think of the poor milita
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#10
Fenbain

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Apparently it was a quick fix to address their abuse involving quickly Thunderblitz-ing them into the enemy and then just waiting for them to explode in the opponent's force, which wasn't a thematic way to play them 99% of the time.

The FW team hope to get round to reworking them for Militia at some point, but they haven't specified whether that means reworking them for the Legions as well, at least as far as I know.

Edited by Fenbain, 28 February 2019 - 10:31 PM.

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#11
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As long as I play I have never encountered this kind of tactic. Isn't it yet another internet/4chan boogeyman? Of course, when your super heavy is down to 2-4 hullpoints (depending on a chassis) you should consider kamikaze run but buying Malcador just for this kind of manoeuvre sound like a total waste of points...


Edited by rendingon1+, 28 February 2019 - 10:38 PM.


#12
Mazryonh

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I will test some of them on tuesday and will send FW a feedback after the game.

Edit: I'll add that in my humble opinion the Xyphon is 50-60 points too expansive.

 

 

Are they even taking feedback on non-playtest units? Hopefully you'll still get their attention.

 

I've tried destroyers (DA, 3 games), new point cost, cheaper JPs and 2A base are a nice thing to have... but assault squads assault better, shooty units shoot better. I just don't know how (what would be their preferred target anyway) to use them, except of ocasional phospex toss and multicharging 2 enemy units so my other chargers benefit from rad grenades. Feel to expensive even for that.

Until they get new toys their status is still: nope.

 

Will inform FW shortly in a more constructive manner

 

Are you disappointed with Destroyers specifically because Assault Squads can take Power Weapons, Combat Shields, and up to twenty models, none of which Destroyers can do? I think that status quo is apt to change, at least in a DA context. The DAs were the first legion to use Destroyers and should be the most experienced in their use, especially if we take into account their infamous Dreadwing which, as a Rite of War, should at the very least turn Destroyer Squads into troops. Would you be more interested in using DA Destroyers if they could get DA-exclusive swords? After all, a DA isn't much without his sword, and the more effective the better. Why not try Ashen Circle instead, who are Destroyers with Power Weapons?

 

As for Destroyer shootiness, I think that FW was relying on the Moritat to do most of a Destroyer Squad's shooting (they even share his whole dual pistols style), since purely based on the Bolt Pistols, even Legion Tactical Squads have more firepower before factoring in special weapons.

 

Send that feedback about Destroyers to FW if you can, because Destroyers have been sitting in this "Elite Unit without Elite or powerful unique abilities" gulf for a while.

 

I've yet to build the army, but I'm running them in either a Black Reaving or Fury of the Ancients alongside Reavers with volkite and chainaxes respectively, with a scattering of Contemptors and Deredeos...

 

How do you foresee Destroyers being useful in a Black Reaving or Fury of the Ancients RoW? I thought you'd be more interested in using Reavers since they have more equipment options than Destroyers do while becoming Troops in the Black Reaving.  I'm not sure how useful Destroyers would be in a Fury of the Ancients list. What are you planning?



#13
Brofist

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Apparently it was a quick fix to address their abuse involving quickly Thunderblitz-ing them into the enemy and then just waiting for them to explode in the opponent's force, which wasn't a thematic way to play them 99% of the time.

The FW team hope to get round to reworking them for Militia at some point, but they haven't specified whether that means reworking them for the Legions as well, at least as far as I know.


I've heard this before, and no matter how I read into it, it just makes the decision even more half baked. They voided 20% of my heavy support choices trying to fix something in another army list! Imagine if a patch did that in a popular video game. Complete madness.
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#14
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I've tried destroyers (DA, 3 games), new point cost, cheaper JPs and 2A base are a nice thing to have... but assault squads assault better, shooty units shoot better. I just don't know how (what would be their preferred target anyway) to use them, except of ocasional phospex toss and multicharging 2 enemy units so my other chargers benefit from rad grenades. Feel to expensive even for that.

Until they get new toys their status is still: nope.

 

Will inform FW shortly in a more constructive manner

 

Are you disappointed with Destroyers specifically because Assault Squads can take Power Weapons, Combat Shields, and up to twenty models, none of which Destroyers can do? I think that status quo is apt to change, at least in a DA context. The DAs were the first legion to use Destroyers and should be the most experienced in their use, especially if we take into account their infamous Dreadwing which, as a Rite of War, should at the very least turn Destroyer Squads into troops. Would you be more interested in using DA Destroyers if they could get DA-exclusive swords? After all, a DA isn't much without his sword, and the more effective the better. Why not try Ashen Circle instead, who are Destroyers with Power Weapons?

 

As for Destroyer shootiness, I think that FW was relying on the Moritat to do most of a Destroyer Squad's shooting (they even share his whole dual pistols style), since purely based on the Bolt Pistols, even Legion Tactical Squads have more firepower before factoring in special weapons.

 

Send that feedback about Destroyers to FW if you can, because Destroyers have been sitting in this "Elite Unit without Elite or powerful unique abilities" gulf for a while.

Well, as I've said before Destroyers lack focus.

As a close combat unit:

+

  • 2 attacks base, 3 on sarge
  • 2x ccw
  • rad grenades
  • jump packs

-

  • No access to specialist close comabt weapons
  • rather low WS

As a shooting unit:

+

  • hmmm....phopsex bombs on a sarge?

-

  • No access to any specialist renged weapons (in bulk). Two plasma pistols per squad or two MLs with RAD ONLY do not make them rnged unit.
  • Short ranged, weak shooting
  • Rad ML look good on paper but in reality are horrible. First, rad is your only missle type available, so you cannot switch to krak. Second, what target will you choose for it? It kills MEQ automtically, TEQ have 2+, shooting automata is no good either - on one hand you wound non thantar (who has 2+) on 2+, on the other you deal one wound if your lucky (BS4 small blast) AND since you cannot split fire with missle launchers you have to shoot with pistols too ie. wasted shots (not that a couple of bolt pistol shots would make a difference). What is important, you can only assault a unit you shot in a shooting phase so your destroyers are stuck or suicadal with no gain.

T



#15
Charlo

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Destroyers lack focus, but even in the fluff they aren't Marine killers.

 

I don't think they're a bad unit at all. They became cheap enough to be worth it and the Sergeant is a total badass. They're a decent mixed arms unit and a smaller skirmisher can always bring rad grenades to bear with a buddy who would appreciate them.

 

They 100% need some special ammo/ weapons/ rules, but are fine for now.



#16
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Yes, as we discussed it earlier they need more options.

 

I'm not certain what fluff are we're talking about, sure pre Heresy they were not marine killers but neither was any other unit. Even vs non marines they are not a threat.

 

I'd definitely prfer fluff to be interpreted in gameplay effectivness - breacher squads, recons and destroyers suffer because of point cost/lack of special  rules. Destroyers are definitely not cheap for what they do (and what they do really?) - I expalained it in points above.

 

FW wants our feedback on how new playtest rules work and yes, I'm still playtesting them (as is my group) - for now my opinion on them is they are not a go to choice in any way considering other Elites options. 

 

I suggest you play some battles with destroyers in your list. Test them and share your experience, mayby there is a way to use them I'm not aware of.


Edited by rendingon1+, 01 March 2019 - 12:44 PM.


#17
Brother Pheidias

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I've yet to build the army, but I'm running them in either a Black Reaving or Fury of the Ancients alongside Reavers with volkite and chainaxes respectively, with a scattering of Contemptors and Deredeos...

 

How do you foresee Destroyers being useful in a Black Reaving or Fury of the Ancients RoW? I thought you'd be more interested in using Reavers since they have more equipment options than Destroyers do while becoming Troops in the Black Reaving.  I'm not sure how useful Destroyers would be in a Fury of the Ancients list. What are you planning?

 

Reavers will feature in both lists. Destroyers will do a number on a targets toughness, and with combined charges, SoH Legion rules kick in.

Armour will be a bit more tricky, but I think I'll manage with the Dreads ;)



#18
Mazryonh

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Yes, as we discussed it earlier they need more options.

 

I'm not certain what fluff are we're talking about, sure pre Heresy they were not marine killers but neither was any other unit. Even vs non marines they are not a threat.

 

I'd definitely prfer fluff to be interpreted in gameplay effectivness - breacher squads, recons and destroyers suffer because of point cost/lack of special  rules. Destroyers are definitely not cheap for what they do (and what they do really?) - I expalained it in points above.

 

FW wants our feedback on how new playtest rules work and yes, I'm still playtesting them (as is my group) - for now my opinion on them is they are not a go to choice in any way considering other Elites options. 

 

I suggest you play some battles with destroyers in your list. Test them and share your experience, mayby there is a way to use them I'm not aware of.

 

Breacher Squads are overcosted now given how special units like Phalanx Warder squads are actually cheaper than Breachers as of the 1.1 FAQ. They should be getting a price reduction like Assault Squads did in the near future. Maybe a special rule for Breachers could be to allow them to use the real-life Roman Legion testudo (turtle) formation to improve their invulnerable save against shooting attacks out in the open at the cost of not moving or shooting that turn.

 

The fluff behind what Destroyers can really bring to the field has been known since the Angels of Caliban novel and it would be hard to balance that kind of serious firepower. Let's hope that FW does that fluff justice soon, and that we all send the feedback they can use.

 

Does using the Hit and Run bonus from the Angel's Wrath RoW improve Jump-Pack-equipped Destroyers at all?

 

Reavers will feature in both lists. Destroyers will do a number on a targets toughness, and with combined charges, SoH Legion rules kick in.

Armour will be a bit more tricky, but I think I'll manage with the Dreads msn-wink.gif

 

Destroyers can also take meltabombs as a group, which gives them some nice anti-armour ability (albeit at point-blank range).  As for "combined charges," are you talking about the "Cut Them Down" bonus from the Black Reaving RoW?



#19
Laughingman

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Have recently gotten a chance to play against the recently reworked palatine blades in ZM and can confirm that when equipped with all equipped with artificer armor they are scary prospect, for regular power armored infantry to fight, though they had a surprisingly hard time eating through WS5 Vets... 

 

Destroyers probably still need to be buffed, in terms of shooting, they probably need either poisoned ammunition, or some sort quasi rending (AP3/AP2) mechanic... In close combat they would probably benefit from having defensive grenades at the vary least, inducing lolz when they randomly blind some kitted out close combat unit



#20
Brother Pheidias

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Destroyers can also take meltabombs as a group, which gives them some nice anti-armour ability (albeit at point-blank range).  As for "combined charges," are you talking about the "Cut Them Down" bonus from the Black Reaving RoW?

 

Absolutely. Looking forward to building this.



#21
carlisimo

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I find it strange that a unit called “Destroyers” are a support unit that soften up the enemy to facilitate the actual destruction.

I wouldn’t really change that… it’s a type of unit that didn’t already exist, and linking it to radiation works. It’s just not as badass as they’re often perceived to be in the background.

Poison weapons would be great. They’d still be a support unit because their poisoned weapons wouldn’t benefit from the radiation, but they’d have a role when used alone.

Edited by carlisimo, 02 March 2019 - 06:28 PM.


#22
Charlo

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You almost need Rad Phage to affect a unit that takes a wound but only for a turn, that would be pretty nice.

Edited by Charlo, 02 March 2019 - 07:35 PM.


#23
SkimaskMohawk

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That would be cool. Like the fallout from the missiles weakens the unit hit?

Honestly, if they changed the limit of rockets from 1/5 to 1/3, and reverted dangerous to how it worked in 5th (no armour) then destroyers could play area denial. Especially with nerfed phosphex canisters

#24
Slips

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Definitely Hoping they get more Rad/Poison/Phosphex options in terms of gear.

 

The easiest is just making their weapons poisoned, sure. But, I don't see why they couldn't also get a more dangerous, Astartes, version of 40k Admechs Phosphor (as, yknow, actual phosphex) Weapons as specialist ammo. S5 Ap4; wound rolls of a 5+ are at Ap3; gets hot! and, optionally, have it either give -1 to cover or +1 to-hit for other units shooting the same unit.

 

Missiles going to 1/3 would be swell as would the option to trade both pistols for Plasma/other instead of just one. Dual bolt pistols are basically Rapid Fire range only bolters so why not have the same for their plasma option and/or any other pistol options they would/could/should get access too like, say, a Lucifex. Why these guys also dont have access to Rad-Cleansers is beyond me.

 

Or, a grenade launcher for the sarge's phosphex bombs to give them a bit more range. That'd be nice.


Edited by Slips, 02 March 2019 - 09:49 PM.

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#25
Laughingman

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I imagine the Destroyers as Debuffing specialist, using their proscribed weaponry to slow down, maim, blind, etc the enemy... Perhaps giving the missile launcher several specialist payloads to such an end would help... Especially if such a warheads had artificer ignoring mechanics (toughness tests, etc)...






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