I need the truth about the Gmen

[CptSlambo]

Today i bought my friends grey knight army not because i wanted to but because i respected the models and didnt want to see them end up on ebay and it was a great deal. I know that grey knights are :cuss but just how :cuss are they. Im not very competitive even though id like to be, do they match up well as allies with anything like custodes or any space marines or is it just guard fodder. I know they are over costed but is there any scenario that they can be decent in. Thanks for the feedback.

[newdigitalGK]

Honestly they can be a decent ally in Guard or Admech. Somewhere that you can get a boost of CP because the army can be CP hungry. Usually sticking to a vanguard or some other supt detachment too expensive for a full batallion for very little return

[Zon]

Don't have a whole lot of experience with them but I've seen a few guys run a supreme command in soup lists to decent effect. The smite relic banner thingy is lethal when used right. Crowe + bro cap + ancient with the banner + voldus gives monstrous psychic offense and defense. They let you do fun things with Gate and assault units too.

 

Also from what I hear strikes put out respectable anti-horde firepower.

[Gnomeo]

Honestly unless playing competitive grey knights aren't that bad. so far my mono grey knight army is yet to be defeated in 8th within my local group. Part of this is also due to people thinking they are soo bad that when you put them on the table people do not know what to do.

[Diagramdude]

Crowe is great because he can cast two powers so he can do Vortex of Doom and a D6 smite which can be a lot of pain coming from an 80pt model

[Biscuittzz]

Absolutely everything in the GK codex is over costed unfortunately. If you head over to Amicus you'll see the current thread where the consensus on codexes is that there are 4 tiers: Top, middle, bottom and then GK. It actually feels like now that our codex wasn't written with 8th in mind and was more of an 'Index+1'. 

 

Realistically, you could ask your opponent what faction he is bringing, tell them to create an average TAC list from their codex and then min-max your own GK list against this and you'd still be unfavoured heading into the game. That's the condition we're in right now.

 

As allies, a GK supreme command detachment is exceptionally good, perhaps even up there with a custodes 3 shield captain supreme command, but every other detachment is useless as the army you're allying into can most likely fulfil that need themselves anyway.

 

As Gnomeo has said above, the only redeeming factor we have right now is that if you play against someone you haven't played before they most likely have never played GK much at all this meta so they wouldn't be too knowledgable of your list/abilities. You most likely won't beat them a second time however.

[CptSlambo]

Thank you all for the discussion i knew going into this grey knights just were not good,  shame because besides the Dreadknight the grey knight range actually looks really good.  Their fluff is cool besides the Matt Ward filth. Hopefully Games Workshop can straighten them out in the next edition or maybe some supplement like Vigilus.  Im working on a custodes army at the moment i think it would be cool to see those 2 armies on the field together sure it will be terrible but it will be fluffy.

[noigrim]

I've won 2/2 with knights+soup so thet aren't that bad

[Trevak Dal]

I still say we are being purposely flogged for how awesome we once were (like chaos and tyranids before us)

[TheGoldenThrone]

I still say we are being purposely flogged for how awesome we once were (like chaos and tyranids before us)

I almost wish that were true. I think it is even worse: I think we're being completely ignored. We appear to have no one inside the company championing the army, or even willing to become aware of GK issues. If none of the playtesters play the army and comment back, and almost no one is bringing them to the tracked tournaments (where the feedback is supposedly gathered), then what?

 

Someone please prove me wrong! Given that GW is working 9-12 months (or more) ahead of the book release schedule, maybe some GK fanboy designer has already crafted a first rate update for our situation. Maybe we'll see a new Codex, or a Vigilus-related expansion that addresses our need for a rewrite. Or, perhaps nothing at all is happening.

 

Sorry for going off-topic.

[Danarc]

Honestly, I feel a lack of interest from GW to GK and this reflects the rules (and the models) for our army. 

Despite this, I have to recognize that after the new FAQ, we can field better than before. The points drop and the Bolter beta improved a lot our army. Now it is possibile facing the others armies (not from a full competitive point of view), playing and, sometimes, win. 
But we do need more love from GW. The problem is that we are not going to have it, so I can't suggest to buy GK. I see a sister-like period for our army.

[Captain Coolpants]

Bring back Ward!

[Bartali]

 

I still say we are being purposely flogged for how awesome we once were (like chaos and tyranids before us)

I almost wish that were true. I think it is even worse: I think we're being completely ignored. We appear to have no one inside the company championing the army, or even willing to become aware of GK issues. If none of the playtesters play the army and comment back, and almost no one is bringing them to the tracked tournaments (where the feedback is supposedly gathered), then what?

 

Someone please prove me wrong! Given that GW is working 9-12 months (or more) ahead of the book release schedule, maybe some GK fanboy designer has already crafted a first rate update for our situation. Maybe we'll see a new Codex, or a Vigilus-related expansion that addresses our need for a rewrite. Or, perhaps nothing at all is happening.

 

Sorry for going off-topic.

 

 

 

No. GW is rebooting the marine line and hasn't even finished redoing the standard units yet. GK won't get touched until they've finished that.

 

Kinda surprising how slow GW are being with the Primaris line though

[newdigitalGK]

 

 

I still say we are being purposely flogged for how awesome we once were (like chaos and tyranids before us)

I almost wish that were true. I think it is even worse: I think we're being completely ignored. We appear to have no one inside the company championing the army, or even willing to become aware of GK issues. If none of the playtesters play the army and comment back, and almost no one is bringing them to the tracked tournaments (where the feedback is supposedly gathered), then what?

 

Someone please prove me wrong! Given that GW is working 9-12 months (or more) ahead of the book release schedule, maybe some GK fanboy designer has already crafted a first rate update for our situation. Maybe we'll see a new Codex, or a Vigilus-related expansion that addresses our need for a rewrite. Or, perhaps nothing at all is happening.

 

Sorry for going off-topic.

 

 

 

No. GW is rebooting the marine line and hasn't even finished redoing the standard units yet. GK won't get touched until they've finished that.

 

Kinda surprising how slow GW are being with the Primaris line though

 

To be honest I'm not surprised on how slow. They know the game is expensive and people can only afford so much so throwing it all out there wouldn't be in their best interests.

[Exilyth]

Over on dakka dakka, someone did an analysis of 2018 tournament data:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772179.page

 

If the data and math are right, then GK are statistically proven to be the faction with the lowest win rate in 2018 tournament metas.

 

 

I've got no GK in my local meta, but I heard they're okay-ish to good in killteam.

 

 

 

As for primaris GK: From a fluff perspective, it makes sense that GK would be the last to get primaris upgrades resp. the last to have that information publicly known. They're rather secretive after all.

[Danarc]

Unfortunately, after the return of Guilly GK are no more a secret chapter. Everyone knows about them and they are only a normal Chapter with special psionic stuff. :(

 

But their peculiarity needs ad hoc models so it's normal that they don't have Primaris in a first phase. The problem is that GW said that GK will not be primarised. 

[Panzer]

Not really a normal chapter. They are still the chamber militant of the Ordo Malleus. Also it makes sense that GK aren't secret anymore considering there's a huge warp rift in the sky and planets everywhere get influenced by it.

[Bartali]

Unfortunately, after the return of Guilly GK are no more a secret chapter. Everyone knows about them and they are only a normal Chapter with special psionic stuff.

 

But their peculiarity needs ad hoc models so it's normal that they don't have Primaris in a first phase. The problem is that GW said that GK will not be primarised.

 

We'll see I guess once GW has finished replacing the standard marine line. Will they keep everything vanilla for all the chapters and just change the paint ? Or will they bring out Primaris Deathwing/Ravenwing, Death Company, Wulfen, Grey Knights etc ?

[Danarc]

 

Unfortunately, after the return of Guilly GK are no more a secret chapter. Everyone knows about them and they are only a normal Chapter with special psionic stuff.

 

But their peculiarity needs ad hoc models so it's normal that they don't have Primaris in a first phase. The problem is that GW said that GK will not be primarised.

 

We'll see I guess once GW has finished replacing the standard marine line. Will they keep everything vanilla for all the chapters and just change the paint ? Or will they bring out Primaris Deathwing/Ravenwing, Death Company, Wulfen, Grey Knights etc ?

 

 

Even if I hate the Primaris BR I hope for the latter. A primarised GK would be amazing (But PLEASE no Phobos armor). Anyway it seems that in few years the non-primaris marines could be released to an index-like situation. 

[Corvus Fortis]

I still hope that not getting primaris  =/= not being updated. What if GK, instead of primarisation, will get kind of advanced Aegis Pattern armor, called Aegis-Prime, or something like that?

 

But we have to wait at least for 9ed for new cool stuff.

[Dread]

Unfortunately I have not got to play with mine in a while. Now the best thing I've heard is running a command detachment with Celestine, Greyfax, +1 other (I'd use an Inquistor myself), I'm planning on trying a 2k list with this soon. In the GK detachment will have Voldus. I think you got a great deal and as stated, we're not as bad as said, they are fun, hard to OP but gating a land raider is fun as hell and watching your opponent eyes get wide is awesome. All armies have trick ponies but playing for fun with another fun player is worth it.

[TheMostGood]

If Grey Knights get new anything, it will be rule adjustments or additions.

 

Rule adjusting is the easiest and most direct approach GW can have on the army. We will likely see some rule changes that will benefit GK in the upcoming Big FAQ.

 

Model updates are likely not going to happen any time soon. GK are likely a very low profit army for GW. They are likely not worth the time (time is money) to prep their machines to even print them out in most occasions.

 

Which is understandable from a business point of view.

 

If GK get new models it will be existing models much like the stormclaws.

[Danarc]

GW have had 2 CA and 3 big FAQ. Rule changes for GK arr like godot.

Don’t wait for them.

[Corvus Fortis]

To be honest, GW considered GK in secon big FAQ, allowing them to cast multiple smites without penalties. When they announced CA2018, they stated that GK are the winners of points reductions (which ended up not being true, but ok), which means, GW is aware of GK current situation.

 

However, I don't expect any changes in BIG FAQs. GW mentioned that they don't want change rules too much (which, in my opinion, is totally wrong because 8ed was complete rule overhaul) and make balance by points. GK codex is just to bad to make it fix it with a couple adjustments. So GW probably decided to leave it as it is. It is just not worth to rewrite the whole book of not that popular faction. There are clearly no persons in rules department that would be eager to write an interesting, strong and fun codex for us.

 

So, I won't expect any fixes for GK in upcoming BIG FAQ 3. If they suddenly happen - ok. But nothing more. We still may hope, however, for new IA book and some rules in White Dwarf - probably, they will publish new specialist detachments for factions that don't participate at Vigilus there. And maybe GK will participate in next large campaing. But otherwise waiting for 9ed is the only thing let to do. Maybe, accedently we'll get good rules.

[Waking Dreamer]

They considered Grey Knights for the smite rule changes mainly because (I think) they were in the exact same boat as their newer army, Thousand Sons, which would have been an unpopular move to nerf their smite as well. Objectively speaking, based on precedence no major rule changes is (probably) going to happen in favour of GK. This isnt a complaint, but a pretty matter-of-fact prediction based on past observations. Sure, the numbers have supposedly been crunched and presented to GW of tournament results, and quantitatively GKs are numero uno - at being at the bottom of the army tiers. 

 

The one major thing that can raise GKs (without also needing to change/account for other SM profiles/rules), is bypassing the Rule of One for us. GW don't like adding more MW variables into the meta, so more Sanctic discipline utility is the simplest thing to do (form my perspective). It's a core rule yes, but so was unlimited smite casting at one point too. Will players of other psyker-heavy armies complain? Probably, but then again is their army at the very bottom?

 

My 2 cents.