Sonoftherubric21 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 So after todays leak I compiled everything based upon the information we have and think that it should at the very least begin a discussion on the upcoming box! I will edit and clarify as new information comes to light until release! (I apologize ahead of time: this is a long one!) The four units of note for Chaos this time around are: Master of Possession, Obliterators, Greater Possessed, and finally the Venom Crawler. Master of Possession, HQ, is PL 5, Has a Force Stave, and a 5++ invul. Probably somewhere in the realm of 100 points. The selling point here is the "maleific" lore which, as of time of writing, has not leaked. Obviously a Lore that does something for engines, daemons, or even has decent damage output will have wonderful utility within the chaos codex but this discussion for our "MOP" is on hold until we see the lore! An Elite slot is the Greater Possessed which many were looking forward to including myself. This did not turn out to be a full unit but instead to be a 1-2 (per slot) "Character" option. PL 4. (this unit will probably be somewhere between 60 and 80 points a figure given our current pricing structure for chaos characters as of now. They do in fact (according to hotrod) have the "Character" keyword. Move 7, 2+ WS, 3+ BS, Str 5, T5, 5 attacks, 5 wounds, 3+/5++ save, Weapon is Daemonic Mutation that is Str User, AP -2, D3 damage each. This unit also has an innate Aura buff for either daemons of Mark/Legion for +1 strength (meaning their melee attacks are str 6!) This unit has potential, though its aura is of dubious use depending on army build, the character itself is somewhat of a grindy melee character with reasonable damage output at first look. This elite slot character can seemingly take on far more expensive units and stands a real chance of doing well on the table. This is of course a cursory examination using theory-hammer but we will see over the coming weeks what can be done with them! (fun note: one of these nearby a prince makes a prince Str 8 with talons......) It also has potential to buff maulerfiends into wounding T7 models more adequately in melee by bringing the lashers up to str 7 (From 6). as well as making their fists str 14 rather then 12. Helping a great deal against T7 models. Obliterators! good o'l Oblits, seem to have changed into something far more beefy then what they were. PL 6 EACH, and beginning at a unit of 1, becoming a unit of 3 max. This could mean they are upwards of 100-120 each (guesstimate based on power level of course). Their stats gaining +1 wound and +1 toughness as well as their fleshmetal guns becoming assault 6 certainly is an interesting development. They will live through alot, and 6 shots a model is quite interesting. I can see these being a powerful unit that is very hard to get rid of, though the increase in cost is going to be something to watch out for. They also gained a melee weapon, S+1, ap-1, D3 damage. Not insubstantial for damage in melee! The VenomCrawler is the last bit to discuss here. Power Level 7. Also Heavy Support. Ws/Bs 4+, Str 6/5/4 bracket, T7, 10 wounds, 3+/5++, physically the model has 2 guns on the actual figure so my initial inclination is that it will be 2D3 shots total, the gun previewed by Hotrod showed D3 assault, S+2, ap-2, D3 damage. While its claws are S+2 ap-3. 3 damage flat though its "attack" stat wasn't previewed yet. and has a baby version of the maulerfiends tendrils + 2 attacks for 2 damage each ap -2 also strength user. This is obviously intended to combo with Greater Possessed Aura bonus. Given that this is a daemon engine I would imagine it will regen but no confirmation on that yet either. This also apparently has a +1 to "summoning" done by the Master of Possession (need clarification on this last part on how this functions and if malefic includes that) My personal opinion as of viewing the statline is that its entirely dependent on the cost! Being that its only 10 wounds with less damage output then a defiler or a maulerfiend I would imagine that this tick-daemon will in fact be far less points. This is of course speculation on my part. If it ends up being 100-120 I could see it being quite useful....if its any more then that? It becomes almost pointless since defilers and maulers shot down dramatically in points. Hopefully this is enough to get a discussion rolling and we can add to this as new information on these comes to light! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Just a word of caution, we don't actually know if this is actual leaks or if it's made-up. All discussions about it are hypotheticals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 Just a word of caution, we don't actually know if this is actual leaks or if it's made-up. All discussions about it are hypotheticals. Fair enough, I will edit for clarity once we have Datasheets in the wild as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptix Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I was really hoping MoP would have a reinforcement ability for possessed ala the curse of the living pox ability on poxwalkers, where enemies killed nearby had a chance to bring back a slain possessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I think the Oblits change is really new ground. I would have thought them to be Greater Oblits as we don’t typically see GW alter a dataslate like this. For me it all hinges on the MoP Powers. I don’t think the Greater Possessed can be much more than 60 points. I’m hoping this comes together in Vigilus 2. With the info we have right now, I’m most excited about the Oblits. I burned out on running up the table with my Possessed and Warp talon armies a long time ago ( getting annihilated by Tau, IG, etc). I don’t see that changing. Oblits look amazing though. Great new stats. Can’t wait to see the costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dice4thedicegod Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Yeah, I am hoping that they are greater obliterators rather than replacing the original datasheet. I would have really liked the greater possessed aura to be a sanguinor type buff: +1 attack to lesser possessed , as I think the variable attacks were the weakest part of the current possessed datasheet. Also, +1 strength kinda duplicates the role of the exalted champion (better wound rolls in the fight phase) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Leaks out - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353720-chaos-space-marines-shadowspear-box-set/page-40?do=findComment&comment=5267465 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I think the Greater Possessed is the underrated gem in this lot. Buffs already good units (e.g. Daemon Princes) and makes the Venomcrawler shooting pretty nasty. Enough to make Possessed good? Not sure, S6 just isn't exciting. I do like the idea of a blob of Khorne Possessed, with a Greater Possessed and allied Khorne Herald with Crimson Crown nearby, though. Venomcrawler seems so-so. S9 guns with GP nearby (or S10 with Herald as well) looks like fun, but that typical WS/BS 4+ hurts. Obliterators are more of a lateral change for me. They look to be about 2x more expensive than they used to be, put out 1.5x the firepower, are tougher, and somewhat better in combat. The real benefits are that you can either go for a big squad to take advantage of stratagems (VotLW and Cacophony), or you can now get cheaper units for smaller games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 I think the Greater Possessed is the underrated gem in this lot. Buffs already good units (e.g. Daemon Princes) and makes the Venomcrawler shooting pretty nasty. Enough to make Possessed good? Not sure, S6 just isn't exciting. I do like the idea of a blob of Khorne Possessed, with a Greater Possessed and allied Khorne Herald with Crimson Crown nearby, though. Venomcrawler seems so-so. S9 guns with GP nearby (or S10 with Herald as well) looks like fun, but that typical WS/BS 4+ hurts. Obliterators are more of a lateral change for me. They look to be about 2x more expensive than they used to be, put out 1.5x the firepower, are tougher, and somewhat better in combat. The real benefits are that you can either go for a big squad to take advantage of stratagems (VotLW and Cacophony), or you can now get cheaper units for smaller games. I share many of your opinions. The Greater possessed has great melee potential as well to nail characters and bully squads. 5 swings with its stats are pretty impressive and could even put a significant dent on some tanks/walkers for what may be a low point cost (80 at most) I can see taking 2-3 for sure. I can also see its aura helping Mauler fiends with T7 tanks. Won't help much against T8 but for most vehicles I can see it working well. The venomcrawler is (from my perspective) entirely based on points cost. If it ends up being...say.... 100-110? Could see a lot of use! If it ends up being 120-130? or higher? Useless as the Mauler is just straight upgrade in most respects (lacking the guns admittedly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 It's the same power level as the helbrute, but with worse Ws/Bs and more wounds so one can assume it's around the helbrute in points...but it's heavy support where helbrute is elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adreal Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 The master of possession seems like a average sorcerer, though he might tie in with new summoning rules (age of sigmar did away with reserve points for summoning, didnt break the game there). Chaos marines still suffer from the problem that power armour suffers from, which is a shame, an extra wound, or a rule like 'all is dust' would be nice. Oblits, ah oblits, yes a points increase is coming, but, increased number of shots per model, still able to be buffed with strats and increased melee options, I will be using obliterators Greater possessed, I'm sad they dont just passive buff daemons, but daemon passive buffs should still effect them, and they are mini daemon princes, the only gripe I have is random damage, but that's better then random attacks. Venom crawler, seems nice, again new summon rules will make it shine, but that 4+ ws and bs makes me worry about it. I'll give it a whirl, but I feel it needs new summoning rules to make it great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Hmm, fun fact...throw Diabolic Strength on the Venom Crawler and it shoots 2x D3 shots with S10... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I do like the idea of throwing it into a ball of Orks, or other chaff to regain wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 Hmm, fun fact...throw Diabolic Strength on the Venom Crawler and it shoots 2x D3 shots with S10... Funny enough its guns look pretty great to me on paper, even hitting on 4+ while moving and can even run if necessary to get somewhere and still fire. Doesn't look bad though once again this is entirely dependent on where its point cost ends. Its regen rule in particular is of note, It can regain 2 wounds a turn which could be quite useful making it a nasty little nuisance. (it is a tick! lol!) Though still missing a piece of info: its attack stat! just off screen in the datasheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Fortunately the Daermonforge strat is only 1cp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I think folk are forgetting warpsmiths are only 60 points, a nice beat stick for their points and can heal up to 3 wounds on a vehicle a turn. Which means the venom scrawler can heal up to 5.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 My warpsmith did work in a battle I had yesterday, he got my predator out of a bracket, and did himself a good round of shooting before getting ate by jain zar. I'll be keeping him for future use with some daemon engines for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Unless clarified by FAQ, +1S auras from Greater possessed and Daemon herald are stackable. Which could make the crawler shots S9+. That is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Obliterators are now what Terminators always wanted to be. T5, multi-wound, Sv2+ (and a 5++ they won't need anyway), deep strike with impressive damage output at range and decent damage output in melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Is it legal to give obliterators unit and put it into Death Guard detachement, through index options, then overwrite with new profile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adreal Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Is it legal to give obliterators unit and put it into Death Guard detachement, through index options, then overwrite with new profile? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Is it legal to give obliterators unit and put it into Death Guard detachement, through index options, then overwrite with new profile?Hah. Nice try. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Little bit meh with the oblit changes, 95% increase on points and about 50% increase in profile isn't worth it imo. Extra wound is obviously nice and so is the melee option but 120 odd points a piece, based on standard PL>pt conversion and they won't get anywhere near as much love as they used to. Kicker will be the daemonkin strats and/or any black legion goodies they can pick up while strolling around with Abaddon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Vigilus is the other wildcard here. There could be some specialist Detachments that have you wanting.... tons of Possessed or something. ( never thought I’d ever say that. ) Good call on the Warpsmith. I’ve been using one in all my games in the past month or two and he would be even better in this setup. I think selecting HQs is going to be super difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallios Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Vigilus is the other wildcard here. There could be some specialist Detachments that have you wanting.... tons of Possessed or something. ( never thought I’d ever say that. ) Good call on the Warpsmith. I’ve been using one in all my games in the past month or two and he would be even better in this setup. I think selecting HQs is going to be super difficult. Difficult selection is a hallmark of a balanced faction; that's definitely a good problem to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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