taikishi Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 This wasn't even a beta. A beta goes for months with constant feedback and communication from testers and developers. We had, maybe, two months of feedback from players with 0 communication from developers including no beta testing of proposed changes or even testers seeing what those changes are. If GW for an actual game company and understood how to develop and test games this wouldn't be a problem but they're so concerned with super secrecy and surprises that they can't see the forest for the trees Lord Marshal, Commander Dawnstar, Jomgor and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMarsh Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 This was a public beta. There was likely an internal beta in the leadup to the Beta codex that had all those factors internally. Montford 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Depends on what you classify as a beta... This was a beta release, in that it was a partial showing of what’s coming to gage the public reaction. And that is what they took the feed back on, how was what they showed received by us so as to guide them in their closed beta testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERJAK Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I read it as the open beta is closed ...they now have an idea of what we the gamers want /like/expect and will now go back to a closed house rewrites / updated beta the same as all other 8th edition codexs They’ve had feedback on the acts and people’s suggestions on how to fix them... and stuff like the exorcist and celestians...I’d guess that they are the 3 biggest negative units they received substantive feedback on ..ie not this unit sucks! When we didn’t get any updates in feb I expected it to go March close...April - may re write in house... July send to printers for a sept Oct release If the Geminae aren't on that list, then that's them not reading properly. I spent several pages across the several emails I sent detailing EXACTLY why they're terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERJAK Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 This was a public beta. There was likely an internal beta in the leadup to the Beta codex that had all those factors internally. This is GW. The closest thing they've ever done to an internal beta was writing the book and ignoring anything the playtesters said that they didn't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Apply to taste (good for rumors you don't believe or things GW does you don't like) theJoeMan and Exilyth 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I wonder if they listened to the gear/unit requests from Facebook. Its been to long since we could take a Jump pack on a Canoness or have other HQ options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doof Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I read it as the open beta is closed ...they now have an idea of what we the gamers want /like/expect and will now go back to a closed house rewrites / updated beta the same as all other 8th edition codexs They’ve had feedback on the acts and people’s suggestions on how to fix them... and stuff like the exorcist and celestians...I’d guess that they are the 3 biggest negative units they received substantive feedback on ..ie not this unit sucks! When we didn’t get any updates in feb I expected it to go March close...April - may re write in house... July send to printers for a sept Oct release If the Geminae aren't on that list, then that's them not reading properly. I spent several pages across the several emails I sent detailing EXACTLY why they're terrible. I don't think that it is fair to assume that the three things mentioned in the post are the ONLY three things that will be changed in the new codex. There's going to be new units, and everything in the beta codex will be looked at from the perspective of synergizing as a whole with the new units in mind. I really do not understand why everyone in this thread is so cynical. GW has shown throughout this entire process they want to put out a sweet sister's Codex and meanwhile all the SOB players seem to be doing is whining at the process. Beaky Brigade, ValourousHeart, Slave to Darkness and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaky Brigade Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 If you want to read about GW's beta process they talk about it a little in the February White Dwarf, there is an article by Robin Cruddace. It doesn't seem as Nefarious as some posters here think, though the sisters process has been a little different. Montford 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmperorGTank Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 In my personal opinion, and yes I know hope is the first step to disappointment, the BSB #2 was the best thing we have seen from GW since the announcement that the beta codex was coming out back in August. I understand the trepidation about what was said in there, especially since the beta codex was a huge disappointment, but to be honest I did not expect Exorcists to even make it on the list of things that they felt needed improvement, and I was pleasantly surprised that they were. Hopefully a buff to that unit along with a whole AoF rework, and hopefully some kind of substantial buff to Celestians will go a long way to making the full codex as playable, flavorful, and competitive as possible. The fact they have a plan to help these three parts of our rules and units out gives me the feeling that they are taking a second look at everything else in the beta as well, especially those units that were brought up in our respective feedback, such as Geminae, Celestine, the weird place Ministorum units are in, and maybe even some of the stratagems, warlord traits, order convictions, and relics too. Only time will tell of course, and yes we should still expect the worst with their track record, but BSB #2 showed me that they actually do care about our feedback, and are really working on making us as equal to any other army with a codex in 8th. At the end of the day that's all we could really hope from them. Servant of Dante, Slasher956 and Montford 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbox Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I'm glad they're looking at celestians as I'm a big fan of the idea of them but I've yet to see them actually have a purpose within the army. I'm unsure what special rules they could give them to make them good alas. Best bets for them I'd think would be to double down on special weapons/melee weapons to give them the toolbox to deal with specific threats (but special weapon spam is probably done better by dominions) I'm also happy that they're reworking AoF's from the ground up. Would like to see them more than an unreliable afterthought. I'm hoping we'll get updates a bit more often now they're doing the bulletin. As before that any sort of updates were super few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxlight713 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Just my 2 cents Acts of Faith - between the beta and the Index, I would prefer the Index as they feel a bit more consistent on activating. It also appears that is the message they got that the current system feels unreliable and lacking impact. Also I like the AoF options from the Index as each on felt like a good choice, the new ones like the shooting and moving feel nerfed and not as impactful as they should. Celestians - They say "add abilities" it feels that they missed the issue, when more often than not Celestains are a BSS with a "Look out sir" and a lack wargear options to represent their "elite" status. Personal if they allow Celestians options for wargear similar to the wide selection like Wolf Guard, or a combination of the Sternguard/Vanguard would help improve the unit by alot. Exorcist - Some have already sad, one increasing the minimum shots would go a long way to improving the feel of reliability to the main weapon. Also the fact that it is also the only long range option the sisters have for anti armor and heavy infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERJAK Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I read it as the open beta is closed ...they now have an idea of what we the gamers want /like/expect and will now go back to a closed house rewrites / updated beta the same as all other 8th edition codexs They’ve had feedback on the acts and people’s suggestions on how to fix them... and stuff like the exorcist and celestians...I’d guess that they are the 3 biggest negative units they received substantive feedback on ..ie not this unit sucks! When we didn’t get any updates in feb I expected it to go March close...April - may re write in house... July send to printers for a sept Oct release If the Geminae aren't on that list, then that's them not reading properly. I spent several pages across the several emails I sent detailing EXACTLY why they're terrible. I don't think that it is fair to assume that the three things mentioned in the post are the ONLY three things that will be changed in the new codex. There's going to be new units, and everything in the beta codex will be looked at from the perspective of synergizing as a whole with the new units in mind. I really do not understand why everyone in this thread is so cynical. GW has shown throughout this entire process they want to put out a sweet sister's Codex and meanwhile all the SOB players seem to be doing is whining at the process. At no point did in either of those comments did anyone say anything to suggest that these might be the only 3 things covered. In fact, there is very clear implication as to the opposite. Perhaps you're responding to the wrong comment? And people are cynical because up until right before 8th dropped GW was a cartoon villain, mustache twirling and all. They massacred any chance Sisters had at a decent end to 7th with imperial agents(arguably the worst codex ever written) AND they screwed up the beta codex despite having a brilliant index list to build off of. GW can 'want' whatever, that's the easy part. They are still yet to prove that they can actually DO a sweet Sisters codex(the index was straight up lightning in a bottle born from copy-pasting Ynnari's Soulburst ability into the SoB 7th ed army list.) I'm rooting for them to do well, I WANT the codex to be great and for everyone to love it. I would be more than happy to reward GW with 'golden cocaine' money for coming out with a beautiful army and an awesome codex. Until they do so however, I can't help but be highly skeptical of them on the simple basis that 5 of their last 6 attempts to give the SIsters of Battle a codex were lazy 'quick, push something out!' affairs. Okay, this is a sidebar but I'm realizing now just how sad SoB's codex history has been. The 5th edition codex was a white-dwarf affair that felt like it was done over a long weekend by an intern. The 6th edition book, while actually fine and functional in its own right, was a PDF that clearly wasn't proofread very much. Imperial Agents is straight up the worst codex GW has ever written: Typos, broken rules, no significant improvement to armies that DESPERATELY needed them, 1 unusable formation, and the lowest power level codex(relative to what was available at the time) EVER printed. Then you have the index which was actually brilliant so kudos there. Then you have the beta codex. It is INCREDIBLY obvious that the beta book was rushed. They created the stratagems, relics, etc and put them into the index army. It started rofl stomping everything and so they had to panic change it so it wasn't super OP. So they just rushed out a half-baked new AoF system to fill the gap and sent it to the printer, que sera sera. Jomgor, Atrus, Beams and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atrus Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I think that pretty much sums up the general feeling. Sisters players want gw to succeed and bring out a great codes that can stand shoulder to shoulder with the rest of them. But the long standing track record coupled with the very disappointing beta dex, the trust isn't there for a good portion of Sisters players to believe gw is ready to go to final result yet. EmperorGTank and Beams 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 It is true we haven't had a really compelling set of rules since 3E :D It'll be cool to have a hardback codex either way, if they do a special edition I might have to get it just because, and I've never bought a special edition book from GW or any other company before :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezr91aeL Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Guys, let's not despair. In my opinion the reason why we cannot see the next versions of the beta is because simply there will be greater changes to the units, like total reworks. For example let's consider Celestians: they will portably be total reworked, with new load outs, maybe even some totally new ones! They cannot show something like that before the new model. Even more true if we consider that could be possible that there will be new units. So do not despair and just look what they're doing with Chaos Marines. Montford 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jomgor Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Guys, let's not despair. In my opinion the reason why we cannot see the next versions of the beta is because simply there will be greater changes to the units, like total reworks. For example let's consider Celestians: they will portably be total reworked, with new load outs, maybe even some totally new ones! They cannot show something like that before the new model. Even more true if we consider that could be possible that there will be new units. So do not despair and just look what they're doing with Chaos Marines. why can't they show the rules before the model. not trying to start a fight or sound like a blue meanie here, but that just seems ridiculous. games need testing, weather that happens before or after launch doesn't change the fact it needs to happen. Why do we have to wait until after the super expensive model is released to see if it even theoretically can fit into my lists? and then endure either a trash model or go through beta rules even though we just had...a "beta"... its that mystery box sales routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) Guys, let's not despair. In my opinion the reason why we cannot see the next versions of the beta is because simply there will be greater changes to the units, like total reworks. For example let's consider Celestians: they will portably be total reworked, with new load outs, maybe even some totally new ones! They cannot show something like that before the new model. Even more true if we consider that could be possible that there will be new units. So do not despair and just look what they're doing with Chaos Marines. why can't they show the rules before the model. not trying to start a fight or sound like a blue meanie here, but that just seems ridiculous. games need testing, weather that happens before or after launch doesn't change the fact it needs to happen. Why do we have to wait until after the super expensive model is released to see if it even theoretically can fit into my lists? and then endure either a trash model or go through beta rules even though we just had...a "beta"... its that mystery box sales routine. GW stopped publishing rules that don't have models because it was established in court that 3rd party model companies can then copyright models for those units (iirc). Hence, if they were going to release new models, it seems very likely they would not publish rules for them or even mention their existence before the model release. That's not to say that this proves there are new units, but it seems possible that there will be. Edited March 9, 2019 by Servant of Dante Ezr91aeL 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Thought it was more that GW couldn’t claim for IP infringement if other people made models for what GW haven’t? Same result though, GW now only publish rules for what they have on their website.... And despite the name Beta the codex was printed so counts as published rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqui Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 IP infringement is not part of the discussion. Back to the actual topic, please, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERJAK Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Guys, let's not despair. In my opinion the reason why we cannot see the next versions of the beta is because simply there will be greater changes to the units, like total reworks. For example let's consider Celestians: they will portably be total reworked, with new load outs, maybe even some totally new ones! They cannot show something like that before the new model. Even more true if we consider that could be possible that there will be new units. So do not despair and just look what they're doing with Chaos Marines. why can't they show the rules before the model. not trying to start a fight or sound like a blue meanie here, but that just seems ridiculous. games need testing, weather that happens before or after launch doesn't change the fact it needs to happen. Why do we have to wait until after the super expensive model is released to see if it even theoretically can fit into my lists? and then endure either a trash model or go through beta rules even though we just had...a "beta"... its that mystery box sales routine. GW stopped publishing rules that don't have models because it was established in court that 3rd party model companies can then copyright models for those units (iirc). Hence, if they were going to release new models, it seems very likely they would not publish rules for them or even mention their existence before the model release. That's not to say that this proves there are new units, but it seems possible that there will be. There will 100% be new units. The codex we have now has barely a single release week worth of stuff, all said and done. Even if you ignore the VERY serious structural problems the army has (only 2 guns that shoot more than 24" in an army that's mostly godawful at melee) on the tabletop, you can't ignore how suicidally dumb it would be to release SoB with no new hotness anywhere. Established players wouldn't have any pressing need to purchase anything, new players wouldn't have anything to really 'wow' them into picking up the army, competitive players are unlikely to be interested in an army with so few competitively viable strategies even if they do fix the codex for release. Plus GW can't resist giving armies big centerpiece models. If they want Sisters to sell, new units and new wargear (especially if they're moderately OP) are absolutely essential. Trying to release JUST a plastic port of the current line would likely lead to very underwhelming performance, if not a straight up DoA model line. Montford, ValourousHeart and EmperorGTank 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Are we due another 'Battle Sister Bulletin today'? The last 2 where a fortnight apart, and this one was a fortnight ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqui Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Are we due another 'Battle Sister Bulletin today'? The last 2 where a fortnight apart, and this one was a fortnight ago... Possibly. With the focus currently being with Chaos right now, I'm not sure what they'd post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Dawnstar Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 And here it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaky Brigade Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) Update number 3: Character details. I've got to say these are going to be some excellent minis... Ooops Ninja'd. BTW have faith past the heretical GSC and Nurgle bits! Edited March 18, 2019 by Beaky Brigade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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