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Chaos Space Marines - Range Refresh


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#1726
Closet Skeleton

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*shrug* They can't cater to every build. I wish they could but they can't. I did wonder if using the Cataphractii Axe kit would alleviate the problem and it could but you'd have to slice the hands off of the arms (or the axes off of the hands).

I get the Plague Knife thing but they really jam packed those sprues with options. They would have needed a whole other sprue of just knife arms.

 

 

Its more of a shame that they put enough weapons to have the whole squad melee centric and then the rules made the cool stuff innefficient and pointless so only boring copy and paste is viable.

 

Again, its only the unpopularity of power level that causes us to even have this efficiency discussion.

 

People are free to gripe about GW, I just want to express some mild exasperation at this "I was hyped for Terminators because they're cool but now I'm dissapointed because the kit won't let me make them as cookie cutter as possible". I want my Chaos Terminators to be a baddass squad of elite heroes ready to take on any threat because that's been the point of the unit since 2nd ed and its not the kit that's getting in the way of that its the rules.

 


 

They may not be able to cater to every build, but catering to the default build in the Codex really should be a bare minimum.

 

 

There isn't always a default build in the codex when the sprues get designed and in this case there was no chainaxe option. In theory plague marine rules could have been written to have 'plague close combat weapons' so that the mace and axes were just equivalent to the knives and then the kit would build a whole cheap melee squad but the designers wanted to give us cool melee weapon rules instead and the part of the community that actually knows how to list build troops choices went "hah hah, no, now where are the knives you've cheated me out of" (and that kind of includes me since unlike terminators I had no expectations for plague marines to have random personalized equipment loadouts).


Edited by Closet Skeleton, 31 March 2019 - 07:23 AM.

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#1727
Fierce Bear

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Ill never forget trynna convert lead minis, these younguns have no idea how easy they have it with their weapon options and kinda poseable limbs...

I have a couple of nice scars on my hands and very vivid memories of flowing red that will make sure I never forget the experience of converting metal models.
Is that where he handle 'DeadFingers' comes from?

And yes snapping blades in metal figures, and figuring out the trajectory of an off cut is another fun problem all plastic doesn't have! :D

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Edited by Fierce Bear, 31 March 2019 - 08:32 AM.

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#1728
Disruptor_fe404

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They may not be able to cater to every build, but catering to the default build in the Codex really should be a bare minimum.

 

 

There isn't always a default build in the codex when the sprues get designed and in this case there was no chainaxe option. In theory plague marine rules could have been written to have 'plague close combat weapons' so that the mace and axes were just equivalent to the knives and then the kit would build a whole cheap melee squad but the designers wanted to give us cool melee weapon rules instead and the part of the community that actually knows how to list build troops choices went "hah hah, no, now where are the knives you've cheated me out of" (and that kind of includes me since unlike terminators I had no expectations for plague marines to have random personalized equipment loadouts).

 

 

And I would argue that the plague marine plague knife situation is as egregious as the Terminator situation.


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#1729
Agrest_IW

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I counted 4 unless they're halved.

The fingers are separated. You counted the Lightening Claws too.

You have 2 Power Fists and 2 Lightening Claws (left and right hand).

It's also what's advertised on the description.

 

Look on sprue there is 1 right fist and 2 left fists, so 3 fists



#1730
Jarl Caldersson

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Just saw the new terminators, going to say I am extremely envious of them. The only thing is that I am not a fan of the lightning claws, but I just prefer the mk3 style.
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#1731
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It's weird, but I actually find these new Chaos termies worse than the old ones. I can't even really put my finger on why, they just somehow seem more dull and less impressive than the previous set.


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#1732
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Yea, it feels like they were designed by the person that redesigned the SM assault squad. Technically good, but lacking soul.

As someone said, it feels like these were designed a while ago, more an exact updating of the old kit without the newer design aesthetic.

I have enough termies, don't think I need more!
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#1733
DeadFingers

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I have a couple of nice scars on my hands and very vivid memories of flowing red that will make sure I never forget the experience of converting metal models.

Is that where he handle 'DeadFingers' comes from?

It isn't, but it'd be very appropriate. biggrin.png



#1734
Agrest_IW

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I counted 4 unless they're halved.

The fingers are separated. You counted the Lightening Claws too.

You have 2 Power Fists and 2 Lightening Claws (left and right hand).

It's also what's advertised on the description.

 

No , 3 fists and 1 chainfist , and 4 hands for them


Edited by Agrest_IW, 31 March 2019 - 02:32 PM.


#1735
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The quality of detail on the new chaos guys is really nice, but the problem I have found is that the options are a bit limited. Assembling the regular marines was a bit of a pain and not very intuitive, it's a shame they didn't do the same thing as the Reivers and have a corresponding letter in each part.

Having built 20 of these now I'm disappointed by the lack of easy conversion potential and haven't found it much fun, it's been a chore to be honest.

 

I was excited when the Terminators were revealed because the new bolter rules greatly increase their potential and make them extremely viable but the lack of the chain-axe has put me off getting them. I not so sure this is a cynical cash grab but more of a trying to squeeze too much in on as few sprues as possible. The addition of a simple mini sprue of chain-axes would have made this an instant buy for me. 


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#1736
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I was thinking that too but I doubt it would be economically viable for GW. Then they're going to get upset when players go to third party companies for the options.

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#1737
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Yeah that is the odd bit I guess because I thought they were only going to be only use the options in the box these days and this kind of goes against that. In some respects that is good because it allows conversion potential with characters but on the other not so great for units which like you say is prime territory for third party manufacturers. 


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#1738
BolterZorro

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It is strange that nothing has been announced yet for next week (waiting for u LoD msn-wink.gif )



#1739
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Thankfully there's already companies making these bits. I am a bit concerned about how dinky a regular Chain Axe would look in the hand of a Terminator as well. You can purchase the Cataphractii Axe kit but you'll have to do a lot of trimming. Just doesn't seem worth it to me, but then again like I said Terminators don't really seem to be the ideal wielder of a Chain Axe in the first place. I'd rather have them punching holes in big things.

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#1740
Marqol

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Thankfully there's already companies making these bits. I am a bit concerned about how dinky a regular Chain Axe would look in the hand of a Terminator as well. You can purchase the Cataphractii Axe kit but you'll have to do a lot of trimming. Just doesn't seem worth it to me, but then again like I said Terminators don't really seem to be the ideal wielder of a Chain Axe in the first place. I'd rather have them punching holes in big things.

 

On the old kit, cataphractii axes went quite nicely on the power axes and mauls with a bit of pinning. You're right I think with any other chain axe would just look odd. 



#1741
Burni

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Wow, stretching this out another week since it’s just the Lord Discordant for pre order next Sat. Still got the characters to go.
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#1742
BolterZorro

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I don't get it why GW is doing this pre order thing unit per unit, one a week...


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#1743
Leif Bearclaw

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I don't get it why GW is doing this pre order thing unit per unit, one a week...

They've been doing things like this for years now, once they moved away from monthly releases and went to weekly. It's so they don't have 'dead weeks' with no new stuff.



#1744
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Thankfully there's already companies making these bits. I am a bit concerned about how dinky a regular Chain Axe would look in the hand of a Terminator as well. You can purchase the Cataphractii Axe kit but you'll have to do a lot of trimming. Just doesn't seem worth it to me, but then again like I said Terminators don't really seem to be the ideal wielder of a Chain Axe in the first place. I'd rather have them punching holes in big things.


On the old kit, cataphractii axes went quite nicely on the power axes and mauls with a bit of pinning. You're right I think with any other chain axe would just look odd.

Yeah... having a look, it seems like Kromlech may be the only ones that make appropriately sized Chain Axes for Terminators. They have the Legion ones that should work and Ork ones as well. Unfortunately, Evil Craft seems to have gone out of business and all the other ones I can find would probably be too small.

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#1745
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Just doesn't seem worth it to me, but then again like I said Terminators don't really seem to be the ideal wielder of a Chain Axe in the first place. I'd rather have them punching holes in big things.

Chaos Terminators having chainaxes goes right back to the 2e metal models, it must be said. 

 

 

Maybe them having access to them in the rules, is to ensure that people with the old models, can still field them?



#1746
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Just doesn't seem worth it to me, but then again like I said Terminators don't really seem to be the ideal wielder of a Chain Axe in the first place. I'd rather have them punching holes in big things.

Chaos Terminators having chainaxes goes right back to the 2e metal models, it must be said.


Maybe them having access to them in the rules, is to ensure that people with the old models, can still field them?

Well, at that point they were power weapons, not just regular chain axes

#1747
Achinadav

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Just doesn't seem worth it to me, but then again like I said Terminators don't really seem to be the ideal wielder of a Chain Axe in the first place. I'd rather have them punching holes in big things.

Chaos Terminators having chainaxes goes right back to the 2e metal models, it must be said.


Maybe them having access to them in the rules, is to ensure that people with the old models, can still field them?

Well, at that point they were power weapons, not just regular chain axes

 

In 2nd ed chain axes and power axes were different beasts. Are you thinking of 3rd ed?


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#1748
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Just doesn't seem worth it to me, but then again like I said Terminators don't really seem to be the ideal wielder of a Chain Axe in the first place. I'd rather have them punching holes in big things.

Chaos Terminators having chainaxes goes right back to the 2e metal models, it must be said.


Maybe them having access to them in the rules, is to ensure that people with the old models, can still field them?
Well, at that point they were power weapons, not just regular chain axes
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#1749
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#1750
MegaVolt87

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The more I think about it, the more I come to the same conclusion. These new CSM releases are not for existing players, they are for people just entering the hobby or CSM in general newcomers. A new player isn't going to understand the value of rotor cannons, basic units (Chain axe + combi bolter) for min/max +pts efficiency. The kits are big/chunky, scaled well, all plastic. I think GW knows existing players will not be buying units they either already own or will just get things alternatively/ convert. I mean, the havocs are AUD$90 and the termi's AUD$98 for example. I want x10 rotors, so what I am going to spend AUD$900 for that? No way. I got my 10 rotors from FW and a Spartan for AUD$340 instead. A new player won't care about getting 10+ rotor cannons or x5 combi plas/ x5 chain axes etc. As a hobbyist/gamer I hate it, as someone with a finance background I love it its a fantastic way to do it and I would have suggested the same thing in a meeting. 


Edited by MegaVolt87, 01 April 2019 - 02:39 AM.

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