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Future Directions (theory-crafting future release 40K)


AfroCampbell

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Everyone keeps trotting out the line that Aspect Warriors need new sculpts. I disagree. Spears and Hawks definitely and Spiders maybe, but the rest of the line was redone in 4th Edition and those models range from all right (Reapers; I prefer the 3rd Edition sculpts) to fantastic (Scorpions).

 

Now, if we can get updated and scaled-up Phoenix Lords linked to an Ynnari release, I'd be super happy. I love Maugan Ra, but compared to the character models we're getting these days, he needs a little love.

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Overall, I'd much rather see a massive, war-engorged Ghazkull, a sneering Asdrubael Vect on an opulent dais, even a new Greater-Daemon sized Avatar of Khaine.

I do agree here, the other races of galaxy deserve some time in the spotlight (although I would welcome more Primarchs). A GD sized Avatar (along with appropriately awesome rules) would be very welcome. The whole Aspect Warrior line really needs a revamp. Ironically, there could be a new storyline following on from "The Fracture of Beil Tan" and the rise of the Ynnari. Biel Tan was always the Craftworld most associated with the Path of the Warrior. A storyline focusing on their attempts to rebuild would give opportunities for new Aspect Warriors and an Avatar.

 

Agreed that the Aspect Warrior line badly needs revamping. I really think GW missed a great opportunity to do a new dual-system Avatar of Khaine back when the WHFB End Times: Khaine book came out. 

 

If the thought from GW about an Avatar is that the Forgeworld model already covers this ground and it'd need to be really different to justify doing, they could always introduce a named/special Avatar as an alternate build, much like they have with the Greater Daemons. 

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Everyone keeps trotting out the line that Aspect Warriors need new sculpts. I disagree. Spears and Hawks definitely and Spiders maybe, but the rest of the line was redone in 4th Edition and those models range from all right (Reapers; I prefer the 3rd Edition sculpts) to fantastic (Scorpions).

 

They need doing, if for no other reason than to make them plastic. There's also scope to merge a couple of the Aspects into single kits based on similar poses and armour weights, with just the helms and wargear being fundamentally different.

 

Won't disagree that the Phoenix Lords need updating moreso than the Aspects themselves though.

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Everyone keeps trotting out the line that Aspect Warriors need new sculpts. I disagree. Spears and Hawks definitely and Spiders maybe, but the rest of the line was redone in 4th Edition and those models range from all right (Reapers; I prefer the 3rd Edition sculpts) to fantastic (Scorpions).

They need doing, if for no other reason than to make them plastic. There's also scope to merge a couple of the Aspects into single kits based on similar poses and armour weights, with just the helms and wargear being fundamentally different.

 

Won't disagree that the Phoenix Lords need updating moreso than the Aspects themselves though.

They should look to the Harlequin Troupe kit for inspiration on an Aspect Warrior kit.

 

The models themselves look okay, but they are seriously lacking in posability and weapon options.

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They don't have weapon options...because Aspect Warriors in lore don't have options to choose from. They're specialists who fight one way with one distinct selection of war gear and that's it.

 

I can see the argument for plastic being lighter and easier to convert, but when you look at the non-posability of all recent releases (Primaris, Plague Marines, Chaos Marines), we're not likely to end up with "Tactical Squad-style kits for Aspects that we can pose and kitbash endlessly with ease." These new kits are designed to be essentially monopose out of the box, so the average gamer - who doesn't cut apart and greenstuff models to repose them - isn't going to get anything out of all that work.

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They don't have weapon options...because Aspect Warriors in lore don't have options to choose from. They're specialists who fight one way with one distinct selection of war gear and that's it.

 

I can see the argument for plastic being lighter and easier to convert, but when you look at the non-posability of all recent releases (Primaris, Plague Marines, Chaos Marines), we're not likely to end up with "Tactical Squad-style kits for Aspects that we can pose and kitbash endlessly with ease." These new kits are designed to be essentially monopose out of the box, so the average gamer - who doesn't cut apart and greenstuff models to repose them - isn't going to get anything out of all that work.

Exarchs have weapon options.

 

As far as I'm aware, the Dire Avengers kit is the only one that even gives you a choice.

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Actually, every one of the 4th Edition-era kits has Exarch weapon options. Banshees have mirrorswords and Executioner, Scorpions have claw and biting blade, Reapers have missile launcher and tempest launcher, and Dragons have heavy flamer and firepike. And Avengers, as you say, have power weapons, Shimmershield, or dual catapults.

 

And yes, Exarchs have options when their troopers don't. Exarchs are special, less soldier and more priest. They're also functionally immortal so they have infinite time to perfect the style of multiple weapon sets.

Edited by Iron Father Ferrum
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I mean, i'd even rather see Pedro Kantor become a Redemptor Dreadnought than a returning Dorn.

Ah, but! What about Rogal Dreadnought? With Pedro Kantor in a turret on his back firing Dorn's Arrow? :P

 

That's "slightly" tongue in cheek, but I do think Dorn as a Dreadnought would be cool, and other Primarchs definitely have opportunities to look different - a more aged Vulkan with all his artefacts for instance, or as Kerhondruak mentioned a slightly daemonic version of Corax. The Khan on a new type of Jet-chariot, which doubles as a transport for his Keshig...

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I don’t know if you have read Spears of the Emperor? But the situation is so bleak and dire on the Bhaal side of the rift, that the council of Terra woukd have evacuated it of the troops they could, and written that entire portion of the galaxy off as a lost cause. Only Guilliman stopped it from happening.

Primarchs in 40k are anything but “just big dudes” they can exert far more influence than in 30k, and by their mere presence could instill a sense of hope, that would help keep the dark at bay.

 

Well, sure, but I think the Guilliman example here underlines my point more than anything. He utilized the tighter political structures of the Terran side of the rift, the better technology of the Martian Mechanicus and the shiny new resources of the Primaris Marines to go launch a Crusade that...well, it did something, somehow. It's not been well-explained, but I guess he did stuff on the other side of the Rift? Anyway, he had the means to at least start it out.

 

Another Primarch starting out on the dark side of the Rift won't have any of that. Primarchs need to be able to do stuff, and they can't do anything if they're stuck on some backwater world with no real means of interstellar travel or widespread communication, where it's likely that no one's ever heard of a Primarch anyway. Like I said, they're not a panacea. Their mere presence does not solve much of anything.

 

Not to say that any of this won't happen - as with Bobby G and his newest Crusade, GW's happy enough to ignore the logistics of the setting once they're on a Heroic Narrative bender. It's just not something that makes a lot of sense so long as you're assuming any of this does.

 

That’s unfortunately one of the things they imported from Age of Sigmar when they were going to blow up 40k and make it another version of AoS.

 

I'd be very curious to find out how true this is, and even morbidly interested in what the original intent was, here.

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Ok there is a rumour of a new big box (think waking the dead) which is Dark Angels V an Imperial (sisters?) army....

 

Now thinking about this I think thats a good step for GW...

 

i) bring out another primark model without upsetting the current Imperial balance.

ii) frees up the Imperial all bike army design space for the White Scars

iii) allows a heritical all bike army

iv) frees up the Imperial all terminator army design space for the Iron Hands

v) can be done so DAngles can be fields as heritical, Imperial or unaligned.....

vi) could be well done story wise and open all sorts of future stories.

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=][= Stick to the topic at hand please, folks. What you think of the Dark Angels belongs elsewhere (and only if you can make a constructive discussion out of it). =][= Edited by Chaplain Dosjetka
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I hope, although do not really expect, that the lore/background will switch to being subtlely dark & grim, instead of the usual 'here is a warzone: everything goes up in smoke, phyrric victories/stalemates, the end (or is it?)'.

 

I mean, this seemed to have been the formula for warzone Armageddon, Damocles, Fenris, Cadia and now Vigilus.

 

40k has always skirted dangerously close to the edge of Darkness Induced Audience Apathy, and I can only rationalize/temper/ignore so many silly plot events and background details before I get fed up and start to lose interest. GW claims it wants to create a broad setting for players to set their own stories in? Then please GW, stop making your own lore so 1-dimensional. 

 

Not every event needs to determine the future of the galaxy, not every battle needs to lead to a planet-wide conflagration, not every conflict needs to involve dozens of factions, and not every conclusion needs to be inconclusive or aimed at increasing the galaxy's doom-level.

 

Does the Imperium Nihilus really need to be a 'nightmare', as GW itself describes it? Cannot it be more like a frontier region, where central Imperial Rule is absent and planet, region and sector loyalty depends on whatever faction is dominant there? Sounds to me like a perfect (and versatile) source of conflict. We already have warzone Stygius if we want to fight apocalyptic battles in the region.  

Edited by Quantum
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The 13th BC World Wide Campaign was well done, with different factions effecting different area's of the Galaxay.  It gave a  sense of everyone involved yet not in the same place....

 

GW then went and dropped the ball with WHFB world wide campaign the next year, which killed off the whole WWC thing... (they wrote the story then put it into action even though all the game results which were supposed to drive the narative went the other way.  Most were Empire victories but chaos still reached middenhiem)

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Discussion about the nature of the Dark Angels and their Hunt for the Fallen should be taken to the Dark Angels forum. If you want to focus on the rumored box set that may feature the Dark Angels, please take it to that discussion (in NRBA).

 

This topic is about general concepts in future GW WH40K releases.

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Old Dogs, New Rivalries:

 

-Honsou vs Darnath Lysander, Omegon vs Black Templars

-Marduk vs Cato Sicarius, Kor Phaeron vs Calgar

 

-Skulltaker vs a Grey Knight Character (not Garran Crowe)

-Doombreed vs an ENTIRE Hive Fleet!

-Aetokeres (Can't spell his name, Tzeentch Greater Daemon) vs Dark Angels!

-Krieg Acrebus vs Iron Hands AND Crimson Fists!

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I want to see GW expand on the Black Legion somewhat. If they're not going to remember that a fair few of us want the formidable, cunning commander we've been sold by AD-B, Bligh and French, and do Abaddon justice, at least give us a real sense that the Legion itself can achieve when there's someone other than the Despoiler in the driving seat.

 

I'd also like some battles on the Mezoa/Bodt/Numinal scale, allowing neglected Chapters and characters to shine. Exorcists, Executioners, Mantis Warriors - heck, I'd gladly read about at least half the Badab War participants.

Edited by bluntblade
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Not every event needs to determine the future of the galaxy, not every battle needs to lead to a planet-wide conflagration, not every conflict needs to involve dozens of factions, and not every conclusion needs to be inconclusive or aimed at increasing the galaxy's doom-level.

This, I think, is the key to it. Vigilus, stripped of its apocalyptica, wasn't exactly bad. Maybe just medium-bad, I dunno, but there's some real meat-and-potatoes 40K to the worldcraft contained within those two dense tomes. If it didn't have to be the crux of the whole setting-wide super-mega-metaplot that feels less and less important with every cursed word, it would've shined all the brighter. I miss stuff like Armageddon, which was just kind of a place. An important place, sure, but it wasn't the new nexus of Ork history or some half-baked Daemonic destiny, just a planet with some real bad luck in interstellar tourism. The Imperium could've recovered from its loss, but it still feels more iconic and vital to the setting than Vigilus probably ever will, because it didn't have to remind us how important it was every other freaking paragraph. It just was.

 

I kind of doubt wherever we go next will learn any of these lessons or do anything remotely different, but we might as well hope.

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I would like to see another arc with Sicarius fighting Necrons, but he dies, comes back primaris and becomes chapter master of the Void Tridents, has allied Ultramarine 2nd co back him up to void the warranties on xenos toasters. This could be a perfect chance to bring back the Silent King. 

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Being a BT player I would love for Armageddon to happen, also its just a cool story.

 

What I really want to know about is blood angels v tyranids post bhaal and what Dante is doing to try and keep imperium Nihilus on track. Could be a sort of retelling of the shattered legions plot line from the heresy. A bunch of chapters cut off from everything leading a hit and run war vs chaos and tyranid hordes.

Also Ssow us, how primaris are Integratingrating into their new chapters some morem

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Being a BT player I would love for Armageddon to happen, also its just a cool story.

 

What I really want to know about is blood angels v tyranids post bhaal and what Dante is doing to try and keep imperium Nihilus on track. Could be a sort of retelling of the shattered legions plot line from the heresy. A bunch of chapters cut off from everything leading a hit and run war vs chaos and tyranid hordes.

Also Ssow us, how primaris are Integratingrating into their new chapters some morem

Not revisiting Armageddon would be a huge miss, considering the amount of story the planet has about it.

 

Revenant Crusade shows Primaris fighting alongside Mephiston and being...a little put off by him in general but following orders unquestionably. No signs of the flaw just yet. Also no mention really at all about what is happening on Baal post Leviathan either. I'm pretty sure there will be a third book to both the Mephiston and Dante/DoB series, I would imagine that the one focusing on Dante will feature almost-answers to questions like that.

 

If I were to guess I would say we'll see Dante broker another alliance with the now properly returned Silent King of the Necrons to face off against Tyranids in the Imperium Nihilus. Chaos will feature as well I'm sure but let them be attacking Terra instead of the bad guys everywhere, right?

Edited by NTaW
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I don't think we'll see any other Blood Angels and Necron teamup anytime soon. It was unexpected for the Necrons to do so in the first place, they didn't exactly work well together and the Necrons didn't stick around to see the end of it and just left everything in the Blood Angels hands when they couldn't stop Leviathan from reaching Baal. They simply used eachother.

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