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Vigilus Falls, What next?(Here be spoilers)


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#226
Sete

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That would require Calgar to lose, and to GW not to be bias with the Ultramarines.

Edited by Sete, 04 April 2019 - 04:08 PM.


#227
Arkangilos

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But he did lose, they had to pull him out

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#228
Sete

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But he did lose, they had to pull him out


So is Vigilus on chaos hands?

#229
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Obviously not, but that’s only because they did it wrong. We are both in agreement they didn’t do it right.

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#230
Sete

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Obviously not, but that’s only because they did it wrong. We are both in agreement they didn’t do it right.


Basically Calgars gambit paid off. It went as he planned, making Abbadon a complete tool, once again, at a cost true, but not with lasting repurcussions. Honestly I didn not buy either of the books (even with a BT formation on the 1st one, that we should have had 5 years ago to be honest, thanks geedubs) because if it's the Ultramarines, they will win. Yeah they get dragged through the dirt, but they always pull through. It's like seeing star wars and knowing the guys that are in the Millenium falcon are going to be okay whatever happens. It's boring.

Edited by Sete, 04 April 2019 - 04:19 PM.


#231
Arkangilos

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Sete, I was agreeing with you and Marshal when I said how they could have done it without changing the status quo.
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#232
Sete

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Sete, I was agreeing with you and Marshal when I said how they could have done it without changing the status quo.

I know I'm just ranting lol,(old age catching up) getting out of the system, not having a go at you ;)

I would not mind Helbrecth hetting trounced by ghaz and ending up on a dreanaught with a massive power sword for example. If you are moving things forward, some changes are in order or else Vigilus is just cadia 2.0 :/

Currently, I think story wise AoS is more interesting. It's a blank canvas, and they can expand and bring in factions as they see fit. But I digress. Just annoyed at the same old same old. :)

Edited by Sete, 04 April 2019 - 04:24 PM.


#233
Ishagu

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Badab was pretty cool, although it changed nothing as the Red Corsairs and Huron were already a thing before it.

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#234
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Even though Calgar lost his fight, Abaddon still came off as a chump in the end because of Calgar's play. The last bit where Abaddon sends a certain OP asset over to Vigilus just reads to me as mad because bad. Its hard for me to say because I really like BL as well as Abaddon, but more writing like this is going to turn him into a meme again. Ultramarines and loyalists  may not have defeated the man, but they obliterated his rep, image and prestige. Talos from ADB's NL trilogy when talking to the Warmaster still has the right of it about Abaddon, he's not wrong. 


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#235
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I'm pretty sure the startide Nexus is another route through the rift.

Which sets up an interesting setting.

Mortarian and deathgaurd are gaining ground trying to seize it from the Tau.

I could see a uneasy alliance, imperium and Tau v chaos. In exchange for occasional travel through it
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banana

#236
chapter master 454

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I'm pretty sure the startide Nexus is another route through the rift.

Which sets up an interesting setting.

Mortarian and deathgaurd are gaining ground trying to seize it from the Tau.

I could see a uneasy alliance, imperium and Tau v chaos. In exchange for occasional travel through it

 

Something I did wonder about to be honest. The one thing is though Tau have dumped serious resource into it and aren't as stagnant in responses to threats as the Imperium is. Wouldn't be surprised to see Tau get new toys in response to threats that use bio-warfare not to mention plague marines hate pulse weaponry in my opinion (T5? we have S5 rifles standard issue). Only thing going for the death guard is the fact they are chaos so benefits from the "Villain Power" boost we see in such environments (you know the one. The one where the moment the Villain becomes a good guy he becomes a chump!)

 

By all accounts, narratively I can't see any other way for the story to go down between the Imperium and Tau without both sides requiring a healthy dose of Sicarius sauce somewhere be it ether the legendary pain in the back end himself or be it far'sight doing far'sight things and far'sighting with his magic sword. Cap it off with Tyranids not being idle ether means both sides need to make some truces or be destroyed. I wouldn't even be surprised if Necrons tagged in too with eldar and we have the grand alliance...wait a minute...oh no we are not doing that, screw it just nuke the blueberries (and if you ask which ones, YES!) and let chaos have its way so abbadon can finally achieve the ultimate goal of the chaos gods and realise he was a chump pawn all the way to the end and just a big failure like his primarch.

 

Seriously though, we have a major plot point in the Startide Nexus and not just for the Tau (as this is a means for them to travel further than they could with current means) but now also for the Imperium if they can secure and certainly another hole plugged if chaos can get it.

Though real talk, what is the startide nexus really? some stabilised warp rift, a tear through the webway or just a straight up wormhole?


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#237
sfPanzer

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Though real talk, what is the startide nexus really? some stabilised warp rift, a tear through the webway or just a straight up wormhole?

 

 

Well, there's not too much written about it, but the Startide Nexus is basically a stable warp route with permanently opened entry and exit points.

They ripped a hole into the dimension which got stabilized by a warp entity which may or may not be a human&xenos created god of the Greater Good. It's not a webway thing, not the usual jump through the warp (as ships can pass it without gellar fields) and not a 'classic' wormhole (which wouldn't use the warp at all).


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#238
Triszin

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I'm pretty sure the startide Nexus is another route through the rift.

Which sets up an interesting setting.

Mortarian and deathgaurd are gaining ground trying to seize it from the Tau.

I could see a uneasy alliance, imperium and Tau v chaos. In exchange for occasional travel through it

 

Something I did wonder about to be honest. The one thing is though Tau have dumped serious resource into it and aren't as stagnant in responses to threats as the Imperium is. Wouldn't be surprised to see Tau get new toys in response to threats that use bio-warfare not to mention plague marines hate pulse weaponry in my opinion (T5? we have S5 rifles standard issue). Only thing going for the death guard is the fact they are chaos so benefits from the "Villain Power" boost we see in such environments (you know the one. The one where the moment the Villain becomes a good guy he becomes a chump!)

 

By all accounts, narratively I can't see any other way for the story to go down between the Imperium and Tau without both sides requiring a healthy dose of Sicarius sauce somewhere be it ether the legendary pain in the back end himself or be it far'sight doing far'sight things and far'sighting with his magic sword. Cap it off with Tyranids not being idle ether means both sides need to make some truces or be destroyed. I wouldn't even be surprised if Necrons tagged in too with eldar and we have the grand alliance...wait a minute...oh no we are not doing that, screw it just nuke the blueberries (and if you ask which ones, YES!) and let chaos have its way so abbadon can finally achieve the ultimate goal of the chaos gods and realise he was a chump pawn all the way to the end and just a big failure like his primarch.

 

Seriously though, we have a major plot point in the Startide Nexus and not just for the Tau (as this is a means for them to travel further than they could with current means) but now also for the Imperium if they can secure and certainly another hole plugged if chaos can get it.

Though real talk, what is the startide nexus really? some stabilised warp rift, a tear through the webway or just a straight up wormhole?

 

what we know so far is that the Tau are losing millions of lives a week/day trying to defend it, and the tau even state that they are only delaying mortarian and the deathgaurd from seizing ground. if another force shows up, tau def are going to need assitance sooner rather than later.


Edited by Triszin, 05 April 2019 - 10:26 AM.

banana

#239
Lexington

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Reading this thread, I can’t help but think about how the fandom’s expectations are so low, and the Studio seems to meet them consistently.

Edited by Lexington, 05 April 2019 - 02:07 PM.

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#240
bluntblade

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A good example is the Badaab war. The traitors clearly lost. It wasn’t a stalemate. And it had lasting effects. Because of that the Renegade Red Corsairs or whatever was made.

Vigilus could have fallen and given Abbadon an actual empire that stretched on both sides. He could have taken a few sectors. Then it could have created more stories of the back and forth of each empire.

You also would have had the opportunity for differing sentinels on both sides. You have the more unified group of defenders that have a more Eastern Roman militaries guarding the Terran side, and a more Feudal “Knights Watch” on the Nihilis side, and they never can communicate because Abbadon controls the in between.

With the whole new Chaos Empire you can have legit recruitment for the chaos legions, and legitimate chaos guard armies.

Also because what, seven quite minor Chapters got their fluff filled out nicely.

If room were made to showcase the Red Talons, Storm Lords or Black Dragons, I'd be all over that.

Edited by bluntblade, 05 April 2019 - 08:51 PM.

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#241
lhavoc

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What about the Iron Hands? There were more of them at Vigilus than Ultrasmurfs.

#242
Master Sheol

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Usual GW bar written fluff without anyone dying and the usual nothing happening Just to justify a eternal War warzone

Like Armageddon in 3rd edition
“Battles are won by courage, by standing firm in the face of overwhelming adversity, by advancing into certain death when every instinct is screaming at you to turn.”

#243
sfPanzer

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I'm not even too concerned about the dieing part. I'm more or less fine with everyone surviving if written properly. We had some good examples of how it could've been done in this thread already.

I'm way more concerned about having a proper conclusion to such a big event. GW tells us how important fight X is but we never ever feel like it's important because nobody actually wins those fights to actually benefit from it.

We know in theory how bad it would be if chaos would have won on Vigilus ... it just never happens.

We know in theory that the fall of Cadia was a terrible event that produced the great rift ... but it's much less of a problem for the Imperium than GW tried to make us feel because immediately afterwards we got a Primarch, improved Marines, a 200 years timeskip and GW just doesn't really use the plotdevice of half of the Imperium being cut off.

We know in theory that the T'au suffered a heavy blow in the Damocles campaign with their big boss ethereal being killed, most of their army being decimated and the gulf being on fire ... but the big boss ethereal got replaced with an AI hologram without most of the T'au even knowing about it, they bounced back from their losses incredibly fast and took back the planet and the burning gulf got snuffed out by the appearance of the great rift before it even became relevant.

 

And so on and on. GW always writes these big apocalyptic and galaxy changing events that would be a huge blow for at least one involved faction if things go south so they never actually really let things go south.

So according to the title "Vigilus falls, what next?" ... it doesn't fall and we'll move on to the next apocalyptic and galaxy changing event that won't lead to anything as big as promised except for yet another warzone people can use for their narrative battles if they can't come up with their own thing. Oh and of course with new models/units/specialist detachments/narrative missions.


Edited by sfPanzer, 06 April 2019 - 11:54 AM.

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Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#244
Ishagu

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Vigilus could be the setting for video games and novels in the future.

The major characters haven't died. That's not to say that you can't write books about other characters involved in the conflict who do.

-~Ishagu~-


#245
RandomMarine

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What about the Iron Hands? There were more of them at Vigilus than Ultrasmurfs.


When we have a character model we can talk

#246
Moonreaper666

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A few ways the story can progress in interesting ways:

-Honsou and Omegon team up and decimate the Sons of Dorn and KILLING the Chapter Master of the Imperial Fists! Dorn returns with the long lost Warhammer of the Emperor!

-Ghazghkull invades the Raven Guard Homeworld. Several Thousand Sons of Corax die along with Millions of Elysian and Valhalla Guardsmen. Warp-Corax returns and drives back the Orks. Ashen Claws cancel their deal with the Space Sharks and declare war on Corax!

-Cato Sicarius is killed by Marduk while Uriel Ventris kills Kol Badar. Uriel takes over Cato's post

-Ahriman and Lucius duel Lelith and Yvraine to the death! Lelith is injured (and gets a new model). Vect interferes in the match to save Lelith and prevent Ahriman from getting Eldar Souls in order to boost his psyker powers

-Khayon and Sargon break out of prison, free some other prisoners with the help of the Seven (A Chaos Warband of the BL with only seven Astartes, very badass). Valdor's soul is consumed by Khayon while Sargon is possessed by a Daemon. Khayon contacts Abaddon for plan C (While the Planet Killer goes afrer Sangua Terra, Khayon fights Ragnar anfmd Logan Grimnar!) Lheorvine Urkis is revived thanks to Khayon

#247
Tamiel

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40k is a grimdark setting for your dudes to fight eternally. I don't want it to have rigorous conclusions or massive changes like what they did with Age of Sigmar. I'm not afraid of change, but change for change's sake is a misguided idea. Sometimes, it's best when you realize you've got a good thing going, and let it develop on its own without upheaving it. They made a mistake with Age of Sigmar.


Edited by Tamiel, 14 April 2019 - 02:09 AM.

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#248
Jukkiz

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40k is a grimdark setting for your dudes to fight eternally. I don't want it to have rigorous conclusions or massive changes like what they did with Age of Sigmar. I'm not afraid of change, but change for change's sake is a misguided idea. Sometimes, it's best when you realize you've got a good thing going, and let it develop on its own without upheaving it. They made a mistake with Age of Sigmar.

And they kinda keep pushing it to this 8th ed..

Store kinda shows it already with chaos forces, imperium and xenos.


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#249
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-Ghazghkull invades the Raven Guard Homeworld. Several Thousand Sons of Corax die along with Millions of Elysian and Valhalla Guardsmen. Warp-Corax returns and drives back the Orks. Ashen Claws cancel their deal with the Space Sharks and declare war on Corax!
 

 

Why would the Ashen Claws declare war on Corax? Just curious on the lore as I don't know much about the Ashen Claws.



#250
Leif Bearclaw

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Why would the Ashen Claws declare war on Corax? Just curious on the lore as I don't know much about the Ashen Claws.

 

Probably the assumption is they still hold a grudge against Corax for how he treated their predecessors when he took command of the XIX Legion (sending a bunch of the Terrans he didn't like away in Nomad-Preation fleets), assuming those are the same Ashen Claws that appear in the FW books (haven't read any of the Carcharodon stuff myself). However, the real reason is that'd be bad for the Imperium/good for Chaos, as that's basically Moonreaper's 'thing', no matter how spurious or implausible the chain of events.


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