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Small Points List help

600 750 850 1000 chaos chaos space marines

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#1
Squike

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Hi All,

 

I am recently returning to the hobby, having not played since late 4th edition. I still have my old chaos force in painted to various levels of dubious quality. my local hobby group is having a casual match day, with varying list sizes and i need some help trying to optimize what i have, so i can at least stay on the table past turn 1, haha. I've only played 1 game of 8th so far since returning but have read what i can without the rulebook. I have the codex and have played a few games of kill team at my local group on their regular night to ease me back into tabletop gaming as a whole.

 

so the format of the day is 4 lists at 600, 750, 850 and 1000 pts. You blind pick which size list you would like to use based only on the knowledge of the opponents faction, and you can only use each list once. lists have to be single codex based.

 

I will try and make this as short as possible but sorry for the long post.

so as to what i have to play with...

 

HQ's

Chaos Lord, Plasma Pistol (PP), Power Axe (PA), 84pts.

Exalted Champion, PP, Chainsword, 75pts.

 

Infantry

2 x CSM's, PP & Power Fist (PF) for the champ, 3 x boltgun, 1 x Plasma Gun (PG), 95pts.

1 x CSM's, PP & PF for the champ again, then 4-8 with Bolt Pistol (BP) & Chainsword, 84-136pts.

 

Elites

1 x Terminators, Chain Fist (CF) & Combi-Bolter (CB) for the champ, 1 x Combi-Melta (CM) & PA, 1 x CB & PA, 1 x Combi-Flamer (CF) & Power Maul (PM), 1 x CF & Reaper Autocannon, 218pts.

1 x Khorne Berzerkers, BP & PA for the champ, 2-6 with Chainaxe & BP, 2-6 with Chainsword & BP.  would split even between Chainaxe and Chainswords with 5-man, 10-man or 13-man squad, 97-229pts.

 

Fast Attack

1 x Bikers, CB & Power Sword (PS) for champ, 1 x CB & Flamer & Chainsword, 1 x CB & PG & Chainsword, 2 x CB & Chainsword, 3 x CB & BP. would be either 3-man with the 2 special weapons, 5-man with the 2 Chainsword's or 8-man with all, 95-141-210pts respectively. 

 

Heavy Support

1 x Havocs, BP & PS for champ, 1 x Heavy Bolter (HB), 1 x Autocannon, 1 x Missile launcher, 1 x Lascannon, 2 x Boltgun, either 5-man or 7-man to give the heavy weapons extra wounds before the get eliminated, 139-165pts.

 

Transport

1 x Rhino, CB & CF & Havoc Launcher, 86pts.

 

Not - I'm open to buying a predator to use for the day as i m 99% the model isn't going to be updated in the latest chaos releases.

 

Before i start with what i have thought for each list so far, legion trait wise i was thinking black legion.

and for all these lists i think i could switch out the havocs for the above mentioned predator with Twin-Lascannon and HB's, similar points cost, more wounds, harder to wound, and I could move the 2 Boltgun marines to the CSM squads if points are still available.

 

600pts List

Battalion Detachment

HQ's - Chaos Lord & Exalted Champion,  159pts combined

Troops - both CSM squads with PG's and the 5-man CSM squad with chainswords, 274pts combined

Heavy - the full Havoc squad with the 2 Boltgun guys inculded to make use up the remaining points, 165pts

total of 598pts, 

 

750pts List

Battalion Detachment

HQ's - Lord and Champ, 159pts Combined

Troops - 2 x CSM squads with PG's and 1 x 5-man with Chainswords, 274pts Combined

Fast - Bikers 3-man squad, 95 pts

Heavy - 5-man Havoc Squad, 139pts

Transport -  Rhino, 86pts

Total of 750pts.

 

850pts List

Battalion Detachment

HQ's - Lord and Champ, 159pts Combined

Troops - 2 x CSM squads with PG's and 1 x 5-man with Chainswords, 274pts Combined

Elites - 1 x Khorne B's 5-man, 97pts

Fast - Bikers 3-man squad, 95 pts

Heavy - 5-man Havoc Squad, 139pts

Transport -  Rhino, 86pts#

Total of 850pts

 

1000pts List

Battalion Detachment

HQ's - Lord and Champ, 159pts Combined

 

Troops - 2 x CSM squads with PG's and 1 x 5-man with Chainswords, 274pts Combined

Elites - 1 x Khorne B's 10-man, Terminators, 397pts Combined

Heavy - 5-man Havoc Squad, 139pts

Total of 969pts.

 

I've tried to keep the lists balanced roles and unit wise and with my limited experience of 8th edition i was hoping for some good feedback, I don't expect to be able to make a super competitive list from what i have and I'm not looking to win the day, but it would be nice to turn up with something that isn't going to get wiped off the board and that i can enjoy playing with as a first few games back list. 


Edited by Squike, 08 March 2019 - 08:17 PM.


#2
Ketzer

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Please check your points again.

e.g. CSM-Squad / Champion with Plasma Pistol & Power Fist / 4 with Bolt Pistol&Chainsword clocks at less then 80 points.

 

Didn't look for the other stuff, but i have the impression, that you didn't include (some) pointdrops from CA.


There is no "overkill" - there is only "Open fire!" - and "Time to reload!"

 

A little blog of mine about Warhammer 40k and stuff (in german language): rolfs-blog.redenz.de/


#3
Squike

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Ah I see what I have done, I have a load of squads with icons of vengeance and haven't mentioned it. although I am not sure this is worth the 5 extra points for the small squad sizes. I will edit the lists accordingly.



#4
Ketzer

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I like your little lists. I would change some things though...

Let me copy and paste:

 

- 600 Points (599)-

+ HQ +
Chaos Lord

Plasma pistol, Power axe, Warlord

Exalted Champion

Plasma pistol, Power sword

+ Troops +
Chaos Space Marines
Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist

8x Marine w/ Chainsword, Mark of Khorne

Chaos Space Marines
Aspiring Champion: Combi-flamer, Power fist
5x Marine w/ Boltgun
Marine w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

Chaos Space Marines
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power sword
4x Marine w/ Boltgun
Marine w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon

+ Dedicated Transport +
Chaos Rhino

Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, No Chaos Mark
 

You would need to change some stuff:

Exchange the Combi-Flamer to a Combi Bolter on the Rhino,

Exchange one Plasma Pistol to a Combi Flamer

 

Put the Close Combat Marines into the Rhino and add the Exalted Champion. Give the whole Squad the Mark of Khorne.

The two Marine Squads will provide some dakka - the Rhino too, after it delivered those marines...

 

 

- 750 Points -

 

+ HQ +
[Same as above]

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines
Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist
5x Marine w/ Chainsword
Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Chaos Space Marines [9 PL, 115pts]: No Chaos Mark
Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist
5x Marine w/ Chainsword
Marine w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

Chaos Space Marines [9 PL, 107pts]: No Chaos Mark
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power sword
4x Marine w/ Boltgun
Marine w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon

+ Elites +

Khorne Berzerkers
Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Power axe
4x Chainaxe and bolt pistol: 4x Chainaxe

Khorne Berzerkers

4x Chainsword and bolt pistol
Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

+ Dedicated Transport +
[Same as above]

 

This time, put the 2 Berserker Squats into the transport and rip and tear.

The other Close Combat Unit could be used as a counter attack unit or as the second wave...

 

- 850 Points -

 

[Same as above]

add:

+ Fast Attack +
Chaos Bikers
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter, Flamer
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter
Chaos Biker Champion: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter
 

- 1000 Points -

 

+ HQ +
[same old]

 

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines
Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist
5x Marine w/ Chainsword
Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Chaos Space Marines

Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist
6x Marine w/ Boltgun
Marine w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

Chaos Space Marines
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power sword
6x Marine w/ Boltgun
Marine w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon

+ Elites +
[same]

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Bikers
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter, Flamer
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter
Chaos Biker Champion: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter

Chaos Bikers
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter, Plasma gun
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter
Chaos Biker Champion: Combi-bolter, Power sword

+ Dedicated Transport +
[same]

 

that would be my set up, using what you have.


There is no "overkill" - there is only "Open fire!" - and "Time to reload!"

 

A little blog of mine about Warhammer 40k and stuff (in german language): rolfs-blog.redenz.de/


#5
Squike

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That looks great, thanks for your input, I’m not sure if the matches are WYSIWYG or not yet, and you can get normal CSM combi-flamers can you just terminator versions correct?

Also what’s your opinion on including a predator at all? I’ve been meaning to get one for a while to expand my forces. Or would that only be and inclusion on 1000+ pts matches?

#6
Ketzer

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Uhm. the predator is... okayish, but you have to think about it's role in your army.

If you need Anti-Tank go for the Lasers, if you need Anti-Horde get the Dakka option.

But from my experience, don't mix-and-match. I had difficulties to get it's points back - 8th Edition is more about specializing.

Using one in under 1000 Points... nah. There are better options for that


There is no "overkill" - there is only "Open fire!" - and "Time to reload!"

 

A little blog of mine about Warhammer 40k and stuff (in german language): rolfs-blog.redenz.de/


#7
Squike

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Okay, yeah if I was to get one I would have it so it was switchable between weapon options.
So is that why the terminators are left out? As they a quite a general unit not specialising in anything other than having deep strike.

#8
Ketzer

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Personally I really like Terminators, I even have a pure Terminator list that awaits some painting. But tbh they lack ... something.

They can fill holes in your army, when you use those sweet combi-weapons on them - but they get expansive. The Reaper Autocannon is bad - especially since the new Beta-Bolter-Rules - and the Heavy Flamer is okay, but when you are close enough to use it, I could as well chage. And then I prefer 2 Lightning Claws or Fists.

Don't let yourself be fooled by their 2+ and 2W statistic. At least in my meta there are a lot of weapons around that have a decent AP and do 2 Dmg.

They do work as a deep strike unit. Give them MoK, a banner and equip them for CC - but that is round about 200 points. (185 minimum)

In small scale games that means a lot of eggs in your one basket.


There is no "overkill" - there is only "Open fire!" - and "Time to reload!"

 

A little blog of mine about Warhammer 40k and stuff (in german language): rolfs-blog.redenz.de/


#9
Squike

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Yeah i felt that they were a lot of points for what they are, and with deep striking them in close to the enemy i feel they will be a one round wonder and hard to earn their points value back from the enemy.

 

just a quick question on the 750pts List

 

the 2nd CSM squad switches from

 

Chaos Space Marines
Aspiring Champion: Combi-flamer, Power fist
5x Marine w/ Boltgun
Marine w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

in the 600 pts list

 

TO

 

Chaos Space Marines [9 PL, 115pts]: No Chaos Mark
Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist
5x Marine w/ Chainsword
Marine w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

 

for the 750 & 800pts list

and then back again to 5x marine w/ Boltgun.

 

is this what you intended? or should this be 5x Bolt gun all the time?



#10
Ketzer

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Nope i guess that is more a copy&paste error on my part.

Should be 5x marine w/ Boltgun all the time.


There is no "overkill" - there is only "Open fire!" - and "Time to reload!"

 

A little blog of mine about Warhammer 40k and stuff (in german language): rolfs-blog.redenz.de/


#11
Squike

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Okay excellent. Thank you. Any opinion on legion traits, I was thinking black legion seems to be the way to go at the moment, although some of the new Vigilus ones look interesting, however I don’t know if they will be playable for this set of games.

#12
Squike

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So I have picked up the chaos half of a shadowspear box set, any ideas on what best to incorporate into these lists from that if any. I don’t have a massive amount of time to build up and paint any of the units, so I was thinking maybe make use of the obliterators and the master to buff them.

#13
Ketzer

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Yes to Oblis - the MoP is a bit... I don't know. IMO a sorcerer is better, but then again - I am playing World Eaters so I can't use neither of them.


There is no "overkill" - there is only "Open fire!" - and "Time to reload!"

 

A little blog of mine about Warhammer 40k and stuff (in german language): rolfs-blog.redenz.de/


#14
Squike

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the only trouble is how expensive the oblits are points wise now, is it worth just taking a single model or should i try and squeeze two in? 

Im thinking remove 1 of the groups of bikers and bezerkers from the 1000pts list, and slim down the infantry units and hopefully fit one in? at least



#15
Ketzer

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Uhm, I think that is up to you and your playstyle. Me? I'd remove 2 Squads of Chaos Space Marines and add 2 Oblis to deepstrike them. But then again, I play World Eaters - and Berserkers are Standard Troops to me. Won't work with your list...

You should try out what fits your playstyle more.


There is no "overkill" - there is only "Open fire!" - and "Time to reload!"

 

A little blog of mine about Warhammer 40k and stuff (in german language): rolfs-blog.redenz.de/


#16
Squike

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So I played with the list below last night, which is a slight modification on the 1000pts you suggested.
I was up against 1000pts of Custodes, which consisted of I think 5 wardens, a shield captain and then 3 shield captains on jet bikes.
Mission was Narrow the Search from CA2018, which I think played to the Custodes advantage massively as there was only 1 objective to hold and as soon as the wardens made it there they were impossible to shift, although with them being within range of the object meant that they lost any invun save which was a help. Custodes took first turn, the lascannon did good, it took out 2 of the shield captains on bikes, the Combined effort of all the CC units managed to get the shield captain on foot down to 2 wounds left and kill 1 warden, and that was with help from the bikes, the oblit came in on turn 2 and did damage to the 3rd bike but on turn 3 he got charged by said bike and killed. so i managed to pick up 1 victory point for holding the objective end of phase 1 and would have got kill the warlord also but Custodes can move the warlord around when he dies. so it ended with me being wiped by end of my turn 3 which consisted of just my lord in CC with the wardens and shield captain.
Now I made a few game play mistakes and skeptical tactical decisions, that cost me some units and i chose to deep strike the oblit, which in hindsight i should have just started him on the board to have him shooting from turn 1 as with the deployment that was rolled he could have been in range from the start.
 
I have 2 question though.
Bolt Pistols for the bikers? whats the reason behind the bolt pistol rather than a chainsword? as they cant use the pistol and all the combi-bolters at the same time, it pistols or all other weapons, not both. 
 
I felt that the list was lacking enough AP to deal with an army like this those 2+ saves hurt, and my CC guys were out classed by the guardians when it came to crunch time. I think even with not making the tactical mistakes I did and making more use of stratagems and re-rolls for critical throws, I wouldn't have come out on top. I think I could have taken out the other bike and more of the guardians but would not have been able to contest the cap point and with the Custodes death ball still rolling it would eventually get around to my units. 
Any ideas on ways to counter an army like this with what I have, other than just loading up on lascannons and staying clear of charge range.
 
 
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [66 PL, 8CP, 997pts] ++
Battle-forged CP [3CP]
Detachment CP [5CP]
Legion: Black Legion
 
+ HQ +
Chaos Lord [5 PL, 84pts]: No Chaos Mark, Plasma pistol, Power axe, The Eye of Night
 
Exalted Champion [5 PL, 75pts]: Chainsword, First Among Traitors, Mark of Khorne, Plasma pistol, Warlord
 
+ Troops +
Chaos Space Marines [9 PL, 102pts]: Mark of Khorne
. Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist
. 4x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
 
Chaos Space Marines [9 PL, 142pts]: Mark of Khorne
. Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist
. 7x Marine w/ Chainsword
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
 
Chaos Space Marines [9 PL, 117pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power fist
. 4x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
 
+ Elites +
 
Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 87pts]
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Power axe
. 2x Chainaxe and bolt pistol: 2x Chainaxe
. 2x Chainsword and bolt pistol
 
Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 82pts]
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe
. Chainaxe and bolt pistol: Chainaxe
. 3x Chainsword and bolt pistol
 
+ Fast Attack +
 
Chaos Bikers [9 PL, 107pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter, Plasma gun
. Chaos Biker Champion: Combi-bolter, Power sword
 
+ Heavy Support +
 
Obliterators [6 PL, 115pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, Obliterator
 
+ Dedicated Transport +
 
Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 86pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-flamer, Havoc launcher, No Chaos Mark
 
++ Total: [66 PL, 8CP, 997pts] ++
 
Created with BattleScribe


#17
Ketzer

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Okay, Custodes are a source of rage in this point category.

 

I left the Bolt Pistols mainly because I was too lazy to edit it in BattleScribe. Normally those guys shouldn't end up in CC. Compare their shooting to their CC potential - putting them in CC is a bad idea.

 

Yes, you really lack enough AP to handle them.

Against an army like you faced I'd try something like this (but I didn't check if you have exactly the models neccesary. But maybe you get the idea)

 

 

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord: Chainsword, Combi-plasma, Mark of Slaanesh, Warlord

Backfield guard to stick around with the CSM to make their shooting a bit more reliable.

Exalted Champion: Mark of Khorne, Plasma pistol, Power sword, The Murder Sword

Let him ride with the Berserkers in the Rhino

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines: No Chaos Mark
Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
3x Marine w/ Boltgun
Marine w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

Personally i prefer the autocannon against the heavy bolter, when facing multible wound armys.

Chaos Space Marines: No Chaos Mark
Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
3x Marine w/ Boltgun
Marine w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon

Chaos Space Marines: No Chaos Mark
Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
3x Marine w/ Boltgun
Marine w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher

+ Elites +

Khorne Berzerkers: Icon of Wrath
Berzerker Champion: Chainsword, Power fist
7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Bikers: No Chaos Mark
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter, Plasma gun
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter
Chaos Biker: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter
Chaos Biker Champion: Combi-bolter, Power sword

You could move the Power Sword to someone else - or re-invest the points into something else entirely

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators: Mark of Slaanesh, Obliterator

Obliterators: Mark of Slaanesh, Obliterator

Two Oblies for more Dakka

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, No Chaos Mark

 

 

The Berserkers with axe/chainsword - accompanied by the Champion - should put out enough damage to threaten custodes, if you manage to pull the charge. Axes alone should do about 3 wounds. Then you fight twice, and your chainswords and the Powerfist should add some more pain. Yes it's not enough AP but you drown them in attacks. Plus there are options like Veterans of the long war and/or Fury of Khorne if you really need to delete the squad yesterday.

You might notice that I added a Missile Launcher. I did this to put some heat on the jetbikes - because Flakkmissile is a thing. D3 mortal wounds on a 2+? Anyone?

 

This is way more streamlined


Edited by Ketzer, 28 March 2019 - 09:45 AM.

There is no "overkill" - there is only "Open fire!" - and "Time to reload!"

 

A little blog of mine about Warhammer 40k and stuff (in german language): rolfs-blog.redenz.de/


#18
Squike

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Okay, there is some stuff there I can work with and see what I can make up, I won’t be able to follow it exactly but I can probably make up something close.

As for the bikes, I understand the aim to keep them out of combat but as the chainswords and bolt pistols are both no cost it gives them an extra punch if they do get charged, as they can’t use there pistols when they use the bolters.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 600, 750, 850, 1000, chaos, chaos space marines

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