angrom Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Hi everyone. So I am not teaching anything to anyone by saying that our codex lacks some good reliable long range firepower. I know that the very popular way of playing deathguard lists is with the Trinity of plaguebusrt crawlers and spitters. They are durable provide a nice screen for daemon prince but what is annoying me is that they don't really have an impact on the game before turn 2, even turn 3 sometime depending on how badly they get wounded. So I was thinking of using some unit such as plaguebearers that do very nice job for screening and can be descent in combat and capture objective while putting the points into long range firepower. By looking at the points VS effectiveness I wonder what is the best between those (I will compare with 2 plagueburst to be in same range of points): So the basic (2 plagueburst crowler with spitters) BS4, 24W, T8, 3+sv, 5++, DR. (280 pts) Gives: 2 Heavy D6 S8, -2, D3 damage plague 4D6 auto hit S7, -1, 1 damage plague VS 2 renegate Arminger BS3, 24W, T7, 3+sv, 5++ (344 pts) Gives: 4D3 heavy, S7, -1, 3 damage VS 2 hellforged contemptor dread with butcher cannon BS2, 20W, T7, 3+sv, 5++ Gives: 16 Heavy S8, -1, 2 damage And 4D3 assault mortal wounds on 2 to hit for (396 pts) OR Assault 8 S8, -3, 2 damage overheat for (320 pts) My heart is going towards the 2 contemptor dread as they provide very good long range fire power and reliable mortal wounds (A bit pricey though) Do you know any better options stat wise? Is it better than renegade knights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Leviathan if you plan on Contemptors. No half-measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 2 Contemptors are great, I ran 2 with dual butcher cannons and havoc launchers in my last game, sat them behind 30 Plague Marines and they did work. I'd actually prefer 2 Contemptors vs 1 Leviathan but I've run the Leviathan too, it's good too 0 like a mini-Knight. I wouldn't be picking PBCs or Contemptors though, they are both good and both should really be in the list. Spitter PBCs are fantastic at moving up and screening units. For example, I played GSC the day they got released, the guy had loads of Acolyte Hybrids DS on me and charging them and his units were getting murdered by the spitters. I run them in most games as I would run a Plaguebearer screen, just move them out and let them take the heat. If they blow up in melee then pop them on purpose for the D3 mortal wounds. Armigers are brilliant too, a solid unit that is competition for the Contemptors, when the opponent fails that D3 is nasty. I ran 2 suporting a dual gatling Knight and again they were solid. Opponents regularly cursed them as they are fast and can hit almost anything on the board with their range. In a nutshell you have 3 awesome options, I'd be looking at adding the PBCs anyway and then look for either 2 Contemptors or 2 Armigers as support. PBC are undercosted 3 for 420 is amazing value. FWIW someone did the maths (you can find it on Don Hooson's blof - https://donhooson.wordpress.com) on FW Dread units and basically Doredeos are the best bang for buck, then Contemptors, then the Leviathan. It's marginal and the maths is based on the butcher cannons load out but there you go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrom Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 So your recommendation is to go first and foremost with PBC? Like I said I do have problems to see really how good they are on first turns. Stat wise it seems that they have mostly durability but they are lacking on versatility. I imagine good players being able to block them easily using their screens. With long range weapons beside of Los you can pick and choose what do deal with first and from the first turn. I am really thinking to buy some PBcs but at the same time I wonder if they are so popular on tables unlike other dreads options is because doredeos and others are FW models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 The trick is to use both Deredeos and PBCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 So your recommendation is to go first and foremost with PBC? Like I said I do have problems to see really how good they are on first turns. Stat wise it seems that they have mostly durability but they are lacking on versatility. I imagine good players being able to block them easily using their screens. With long range weapons beside of Los you can pick and choose what do deal with first and from the first turn. I am really thinking to buy some PBcs but at the same time I wonder if they are so popular on tables unlike other dreads options is because doredeos and others are FW models. PBC and the other options you're considering are just totally different units, a comparison is kinda meaningless. I wouldn't really compare the damage output of the PBC to Contemptors/Doredeos as you're right, on paper it looks bad and appears to lose to a butcher cannon dreads hands down. But... PBCs are just so damn tough, use them to hold objectives, screen units, and just get in your enemies face. Turn 1 they'll likely move up and do nothing, I often even advance them just to get them half way across the board, but that doesn't make them bad, they'll be hanging around for 5+ turns unless the enemy dedicates serious firepower to remove them. Board control is key and PBCs do it so well, if they get charged by hordes then okay because I'm overwatching and that blob isn't moving past my PBC, next turn I can fall back and let them eat overwatch again or just stay locked in combat. Anything shooting your PBCs is not shooting your T7 units, I'm fine with my PBCs getting shot at! Honestly, I'd go as far as saying that they are probably the best unit we have - I never run less than 2, and usually take 3. Spitters are great as they autohit, the mortar and gun are whatever, if they hit great but I just shoot the mortar at whatever I don't have LOS on, even if it's 5+ to hit, I don't see the mortar as the main weapon anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrom Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share Posted March 11, 2019 So for a 1500 pts. What is the best between these 3 options for the base of it?: 3 PBC, 3 drones, 1 daemon prince wings 3 PBC, 3 Deredeo dread, 1 daemon prince wings 3 Deredeo dread, 3 drones, 1 daemon prince wings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 So for a 1500 pts. What is the best between these 3 options for the base of it?: 3 PBC, 3 drones, 1 daemon prince wings 3 PBC, 3 Deredeo dread, 1 daemon prince wings 3 Deredeo dread, 3 drones, 1 daemon prince wings I would go with the last option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeresyBeliever Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 My 1750 list has 3 PBC, 3 Drones (spitters) 1 butcher contemptor and a DP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 So for a 1500 pts. What is the best between these 3 options for the base of it?: 3 PBC, 3 drones, 1 daemon prince wings 3 PBC, 3 Deredeo dread, 1 daemon prince wings 3 Deredeo dread, 3 drones, 1 daemon prince wings They're all good choices but the most competitive choice is: 3 PBC, 3 Deredeo dread, 1 daemon prince wings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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