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Hydras: Worth the Heavy Slot?


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16 replies to this topic

#1
Rommel44

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Hey mates. Currently have 3x Hydras and I am debating if they are worth keeping or should I invest on more common Heavy Support units. How well have they done for you and feel free to share any knowledge and experience you have had with them.

#2
Commissar potato

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Personally, I think wyverns are better in most cases, as indirect fire is just to good. However, hydras are super good for taking out those pesky eldar fliers! If I were you though, I would try and do a little conversion work to turn those lads into wyverns. Hope this helped!
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#3
HallofStovokor

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I'd keep at least one. They're more useful than a chimera against eldar.
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#4
Lord Marshal

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With Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company they've got more of a place, since it allows you to use Suppressive Fire without 'wasting' a round of shooting from your Basilisks.

I like to keep one around in campaigns/PUGs on the off-chance a flyer is brought in, or I'm facing Eldar.

Edited by Lord Marshal, 10 March 2019 - 12:34 AM.


#5
Exilyth

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If the models you have are the hydra/wyvern dual kit, the autocannon barrels can be build removable so the model can be a hydra or wyvern depending on what's needed - even without magnets.

 

On being usefull ...

Best case, you're wounding and killing enemy flyers.

Worst case, you've got a chimera chassis with heavy bolter and innaccurate autocannons vs ground units (which can also be put to use as mobile cover).

 

Outside the AA role, the hydra gets outperformed by most other units in the codex.

Either way it's a cheap tank which can attract some fire away from your other vehicles.

 

I've got one hydra in most 1500-2000 points lists I build.

With three hydras, I'd use (or convert/magnetize) 2 as wyverns.

 

 

It should be noted though that, due to the way flamer weapons work, the hellhound can be good at the AA role too.


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#6
sairence

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Hydras are good at T6 or lower with the fly-KW. As soon as you fire at T7, their effectiveness drops pretty sharply. 3+ save is also a bit of an obstacle. Overall it suffers from the shortcomings of the AC in general.

So it's situational. I think against Harlequins and similar targets you should have a field day. All their vehicles have fly, low T and a 4++.

Edited by sairence, 10 March 2019 - 09:31 AM.

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#7
BIG ROB OF DEATH

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I really like hydras, especially in conjunction with all the interesting things that Vigilus Defiant Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company enables. However, a poor man's modest substitute for its anti-flyer capabilities is an augur array and a hunter-killer missile on vehicles that can be equipped with them. 



#8
librisrouge

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I’m testing taking one in an Emperor’s Wrath detachment. It seems to be in a good place there. One strategem capitalizes it if you’re facing the units it actually wants to shoot at. The other is perfect if it doesn’t have a good target so you don’t waste a Wyvern or basilisk shooting.
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#9
WarriorFish

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Hydras are good at T6 or lower with the fly-KW. As soon as you fire at T7, their effectiveness drops pretty sharply. 3+ save is also a bit of an obstacle. Overall it suffers from the shortcomings of the AC in general.

So it's situational. I think against Harlequins and similar targets you should have a field day. All their vehicles have fly, low T and a 4++.

This is my experience. Used a couple last game (batrep coming soon...) and they struggled against a Stormraven sad.png Anything with lower stats will be fine game so it depends a lot on what you may be up against as to how worthwhile they are. Sadly as mentioned unless you're confident in getting good use you're probably better off with Hellhounds confused.gif


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#10
Gothical

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Using them in Emperor's Wrath is a good shout for the utility of the Suppressing Fire stratagem, gives them something to do if there's a lack of optimal targets.

 

I am planning on using a pair to support my Leman Russ heavy force. I find them a cheap, effective anti-air option (haven't come up against tough flyers like the Stormraven yet) but also fantastic for forcing a large amount of saves on units like Custodes Jetbikes, Crisis Battlesuits, (Dark) Eldar Jetbikes of all varieties, Vanguard Veterans, Inceptors and so on that pose a threat to my heavy armour. A surprising number of targets have the Fly keyword.

 

Even if they are shooting at ground targets and hitting on 5s (assuming you stay static) you still have a large volume of shots and a Heavy Bolter hitting on 4s too. They are cheap enough that I don't mind devoting one of them to finishing off the last few squad survivors on an objective, whilst doing so with a Russ would be a waste of its potential and a Sentinel is unlikely to get the job done.

 

They aren't an airman's worst nightmare as they may have been in the past, but they are still pretty solid and fairly cheap. 


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Nah, no one takes a ship like the XIIth. Imagine being stuck in a space-bound tin can with only short hallways to set up firing points. It'd be like releasing a pack of PCP'ed up wolverines (the animals, not multiple Hugh Jackmans) into a locker room and blocking all the exits.

 

They aren't stuck inside a ship with you, you're trapped on a ship with them. 

 

However, the First Son and his Templar Brethren are who I'd bet on to defend that ship happy.png

 


#11
MrZakalwe

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I find it hard to justify using the Hydra when the Hellhound does it's job as well. The Hellhound is better against some targets, worse against others, better when bracketed while being tougher so harder to bracket while also doing a core component to your mid field push, overwatching like a boss, and exploding frequently enough that people need to take the risk seriously. 


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#12
Wassa

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If it 's the Wyvern / Hydra kit hopefully you could cut the autocannons off and have a Wyvern again, then drill some magnets in and paint over it and you could always reuse the Hydra Autocannons if you put magnets in them too.
 
 
Also if you know someone with a 3D printer someones made attachments that fit into the ring of the Wyvern model that allow you to change it into a Basilisk or Manticore.
(Why GW didn't do this I don't know!)


Edited by WarriorFish, 15 March 2019 - 11:25 AM.
Please do not link to 3D printing repos

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#13
HallofStovokor

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I actually don't think that hydras are bad. They hit fliers on a 3+. Typically I'd say that manticores and basilisks are more useful against most armies. That being said, they [hydras] work well against eldar especially alaitoc who already have the -1 to hit naked into their craft world.

#14
sairence

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I actually don't think that hydras are bad. They hit fliers on a 3+. Typically I'd say that manticores and basilisks are more useful against most armies. That being said, they [hydras] work well against eldar especially alaitoc who already have the -1 to hit naked into their craft world.

They hit fliers on 4s, because of hard to hit which every actual flier has. Alaitoc ones it'd hit on 5s generally. This is why Hellhounds are often such a decent alternatives.

Where the Hydra can work is any other unit with the fly keyword.

Edited by sairence, 15 March 2019 - 10:09 AM.

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#15
Wassa

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It's also the cheapest artillery we have which can be used for the Supressive Fire strategem, that prevents Overwatch and reduces enemy movement by a half. It can be useful if there are no more enemy fliers to shoot.

 

RAW, it doesn't need line of sight either, just "within range".

 

 

The 8 shots  and +1 to hit fliers is great. But against any T7+ it may struggle a bit. Compared with the Battle Cannon that wounds them on 3+ and reduces their AP by an extra -1, it may be better. Haven't run the maths though.


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#16
librisrouge

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I think that the role of the Hydra as an "anti-flyer" piece sadly ignores the fact that its bonus to hit is attached to the FLY keyword and not the Flyer battlefield role. This means that it hits on 3+ on a lot of good targets.

 

Shining Spears 3+

Inceptors 3+

Talos Pain Engine 3+

All Eldar Skimmers 3+

Tau battle suits 3+

Deffkopters 3+

Assault Marines 3+

Repulsor Grav Tank 3+

 

The Hard to Hit rule that most flyers have does mean that it hits on a 4+ against most (5+ against a lot of Eldar) but those same penalties would apply to all IG, without the +1 to hit to compensate. While it still struggles to be worth its points, I still think it is important to remember that it is very useful against things that don't necessarily match its cliched target.


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"Frak this, for my faith is a shield proof against your blandishments."

-Book of Cain - Chapter IV, Verse XXI

 

"I think you really need to be a guard player in order to have that kind of attitude about casualties. My forces were killed to a man for slight strategic gain? All I heard was a buzzing noise until that part about strategic gain."

-Ailarian, Hand of the Kind XXXI

 

http://thisisahelmet.blogspot.com/ - My Sometimes Update Blog

 

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#17
HallofStovokor

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I actually don't think that hydras are bad. They hit fliers on a 3+. Typically I'd say that manticores and basilisks are more useful against most armies. That being said, they [hydras] work well against eldar especially alaitoc who already have the -1 to hit naked into their craft world.

They hit fliers on 4s, because of hard to hit which every actual flier has. Alaitoc ones it'd hit on 5s generally. This is why Hellhounds are often such a decent alternatives.

Where the Hydra can work is any other unit with the fly keyword.

Not all things with they fly keyword have the hard to hit rule. Nearly all of the eldar vehicles people use have the fly keyword.




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