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Sanguinius Full Rules for 30k


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#26
Charlo

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The spear look ace imo dont know why would you throw it away

 

Last ditch effort I suppose. S7 is INCREDIBLY iffy though. IMO it would need to be S10 on the throw to be really worth it....



#27
Gorgoff

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The spear look ace imo dont know why would you throw it away


Last ditch effort I suppose. S7 is INCREDIBLY iffy though. IMO it would need to be S10 on the throw to be really worth it....
Maybe if you play against Demons to get the Swort?
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#28
Indefragable

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The spear look ace imo dont know why would you throw it away


Last ditch effort I suppose. S7 is INCREDIBLY iffy though. IMO it would need to be S10 on the throw to be really worth it....
Maybe if you play against Demons to get the Swort?

 

 

I have a feeling that someone at HQ was like "he needs a backup sword....because BL is writing a short story called Moonsilver."

 

So Simon Egan then had to add in a secondary sword to the scabbard, and then the rules team had to go from there, since rules writers are the bottom of the food chain at GW (alas).


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#29
Unknown Legionnaire

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I like the spear & sword combo. The blade is excellent against daemons and the spear is nothing to sniff at.


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#30
rendingon1+

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Throwing the spear is indeed a bit strange since it does not come back and spear throw is not very epic, to be fair. I think (psychologically speaking) this option takes away from spear awesomness, since without it people would just compare melee stats hehe. Moonsilver is also a bit "forced", I agree. Unless there are W2 <T5 demon units I literally can't see a use for it because S7 + shred or spear charge is just so much better in dealing reliable wounds.


When a Great Beast marauds, the warriors of the keep do not seek terms with it, they do not ride out and ask for it to accommodate their feelings. They set forth with shocklance and power sword, and all the courage and determination they can muster. They find the beast and they lay their blades upon it until it is dead, or they are.


#31
Indefragable

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Throwing the spear is indeed a bit strange since it does not come back and spear throw is not very epic, to be fair. I think (psychologically speaking) this option takes away from spear awesomness, since without it people would just compare melee stats hehe. Moonsilver is also a bit "forced", I agree. Unless there are W2 <T5 demon units I literally can't see a use for it because S7 + shred or spear charge is just so much better in dealing reliable wounds.

 

Spear of Telesto AND Encarmine Blade is a bit much.

 

Spear of Telesto being thrown One Use Only then.....fists? Makes no sense.

 

Spear of Telesto with Infernus shooting profile instead of infernus as seperate shooting weapon = makes more sense to me.

 

As I mentioned above, I'd like to see Encarmine Blade w/ Duellist's Edge + Master Crafted to make it the Light option that is an actual choice compared to the Heavy option of the spear...do you try to take foes down in a single blow with the spear or do death by a thousand cuts with the (super reliable but "standard") sword?

 

I just can't wait to get some reps with him on the table to see what actually happens. Enough Theoryhammer.


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#32
7onyMustDive

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Throwing the spear is indeed a bit strange since it does not come back and spear throw is not very epic, to be fair. I think (psychologically speaking) this option takes away from spear awesomness, since without it people would just compare melee stats hehe. Moonsilver is also a bit "forced", I agree. Unless there are W2 <T5 demon units I literally can't see a use for it because S7 + shred or spear charge is just so much better in dealing reliable wounds.

 

Spear of Telesto AND Encarmine Blade is a bit much.

 

Spear of Telesto being thrown One Use Only then.....fists? Makes no sense.

 

Spear of Telesto with Infernus shooting profile instead of infernus as seperate shooting weapon = makes more sense to me.

 

As I mentioned above, I'd like to see Encarmine Blade w/ Duellist's Edge + Master Crafted to make it the Light option that is an actual choice compared to the Heavy option of the spear...do you try to take foes down in a single blow with the spear or do death by a thousand cuts with the (super reliable but "standard") sword?

 

I just can't wait to get some reps with him on the table to see what actually happens. Enough Theoryhammer.

 

I've actually been wondering if the sword is better against Primarchs and Eternal Warrior Characters. The constant +1 strength and reroll to wounds seems better at Primarch dueling than the spear even with the roll 6 for extra wound. I'm not sure though, can someone mathhammer this? 



#33
rendingon1+

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Sword is superior, no doubt. You'll not kill a primarch in a single turn and on second turn you'll be wounding on 4+/3+ with reroll while spear is just 4+.


When a Great Beast marauds, the warriors of the keep do not seek terms with it, they do not ride out and ask for it to accommodate their feelings. They set forth with shocklance and power sword, and all the courage and determination they can muster. They find the beast and they lay their blades upon it until it is dead, or they are.


#34
SixOfOne

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Throwing the spear is indeed a bit strange since it does not come back and spear throw is not very epic, to be fair. I think (psychologically speaking) this option takes away from spear awesomness, since without it people would just compare melee stats hehe. Moonsilver is also a bit "forced", I agree. Unless there are W2 <T5 demon units I literally can't see a use for it because S7 + shred or spear charge is just so much better in dealing reliable wounds.

 

Spear of Telesto AND Encarmine Blade is a bit much.

 

Spear of Telesto being thrown One Use Only then.....fists? Makes no sense.

 

Spear of Telesto with Infernus shooting profile instead of infernus as seperate shooting weapon = makes more sense to me.

 

As I mentioned above, I'd like to see Encarmine Blade w/ Duellist's Edge + Master Crafted to make it the Light option that is an actual choice compared to the Heavy option of the spear...do you try to take foes down in a single blow with the spear or do death by a thousand cuts with the (super reliable but "standard") sword?

 

I just can't wait to get some reps with him on the table to see what actually happens. Enough Theoryhammer.

 

I've actually been wondering if the sword is better against Primarchs and Eternal Warrior Characters. The constant +1 strength and reroll to wounds seems better at Primarch dueling than the spear even with the roll 6 for extra wound. I'm not sure though, can someone mathhammer this? 

 

 

Against a generic WS7/8, T6, 4++ Primarch it would be something like this (in a vacuum, so no charge or rampage).

 

Sanguinius (Encarmine) attacks 6 times, hits 3.96 times, wounds 3.4761 times, causes 1.738 wounds after saves (IWND will reduce this to 1.147)

 

Sanguinius (Telesto) attacks 6 times, hits 4.1778 times, wounds 2.43705 times, causes 1.2185 wounds after saves (IWND will reduce this to 0.8042) - WoA 

 

Basically, in Primarch fights only ever use the Blade Encarmine. Shred is simply too good in that situation. The Spear is for use against vehicles really or for ID T5 and above models, hence why it is AP1 on the charge. Either way, with the Encarmine Blade Sanguinius may not beat every primarch in a vacuum, but he will for sure cause the majority of them problems. This is even more evident when you get the charge.

 

On charge w. Encarmine - Sanguinius HoW for 0.83 wounds, 0.416 after saves. Sanguinius then attacks 8 times, hits 5.28 times, wounds 4.6348 times, for 2.317 wounds after saves (total 2.733 wounds).

 

Basically you're almost half-way to killing a 'regular statline primarch' in a single round of combat. He's not even that dependent on the charge as he gains his Sire bonuses in the first turn of any combat - you only lose out on HoW. (Although you potentially lose out on one additional attack. I'm honestly not entirely sure if the +1 attack from Sire is meant to stack with the +1 attack from charging.)


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#35
rendingon1+

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These are two independent rules, I can't see a reason why they wouldn't stack.


When a Great Beast marauds, the warriors of the keep do not seek terms with it, they do not ride out and ask for it to accommodate their feelings. They set forth with shocklance and power sword, and all the courage and determination they can muster. They find the beast and they lay their blades upon it until it is dead, or they are.


#36
SixOfOne

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These are two independent rules, I can't see a reason why they wouldn't stack.

 

I completely agree, but part of me can see people arguing the other way. A word of clarification from FW would be nice either way I suppose.



#37
Indefragable

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Nice work, @SixOfOne.

 

I'm sure it's terrible to calculate, but how does the 6's To Wound = 2 Wounds thing from the Spear affect performance?


Call me Indy. It's less syllables.

 

 

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#38
SixOfOne

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Nice work, @SixOfOne.

 

I'm sure it's terrible to calculate, but how does the 6's To Wound = 2 Wounds thing from the Spear affect performance?

 

It adds about 0.34 wounds on average. It doesn't make the spear worth taking over the sword really, but then again, you could roll 3 6s to wound and straight up kill the enemy primarch. Basically treat it like Murderous Strike, nice when it activates, but not something to rely on. Ultimately though both of the weapons have a specific role. The sword is best taken against Marines, where ID is pretty useless overall (it's not like it's going to make a huge difference killing a generic praetor) and when you might face a Primarch. The spear should be taken against Custodes or Mechanicum or Questoris Knights where the ID and S bonus is more important.

 

The main issue I see with Sanguinius is that he needs a bodyguard cos' while he's as fast as Corax and Curze he's not as survivable against shooting. But then, Sanguinius and a bodyguard is going to murder basically anything in a turn unless you roll really badly, which just restarts the problem. What you're ending up with is a more manueverable Primarchstar, but that's still going to end up as a ton of points. I've seen someone argue recently that Sanguinius is actually more survivable against shooting than Corax because of this, based on the fact that you can pod 10 seekers with Combi-plas and shoot him to death. But unless your opponent is playing Corax terribly, that's probably not going to work. 

 

Basically (and apologies for the slight ramble), Sanguinius is by no means bad, but he's slightly too good at killing everything quickly which will leave him open and he requires a bodyguard. The weapon options have pros and cons and mean that he'll often be better at some things than others, unlike some Primarchs.



#39
Omega-soul

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I think the main difference between sword and spear is - are you going to kill enemy units on charge.

 

But I think sword is all comers choice - you don't have to rely on charge and don't worry about 2+ turns of close combat (considering lack of Hit and run)



#40
Taliesin

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Looks like no Sanguinius or Malevolence on pre-order this week either.



#41
Argel Tal

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Again we have FW trolling with some rats...

#42
Ranwulf

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Spoiler

 

And now we have a Flying Gargantuan Creature that is also a character...and Sanguinius with wings can't fly.

 

wallbash.gif

 

Ran


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#43
SkimaskMohawk

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Who's not an independent character, there's a significant difference.

Simply put, it can be challenged and triggers a few types of preferred enemy.

Gotta say you were the first thing I thought of when I saw his unit type and howd there be a post like this lol
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