Unit of the Week: Dreadnought

[Jolemai]

Welcome to part three of the Blood Angels Unit of the Week Series!

Following the release of the 8^th edition Codex, there is no better time to discuss all the units we have access to. Each week a different unit will appear, with the idea being that we discuss how best to use that model on the battlefield. Where part one will focus on the unique BA units and part two will focus on BA units that are new to this edition of the Codex, part three will discuss how to get the best use the generic units from the past that are still with us (and that many of us have in our armies still).

Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Similarly, this thread is only for using the option being discussed; it matters not if you feel something is a better choice as such comments aren't constructive to the topic and shall be removed.

Without further ado, here's this week's entry:

Dreadnought

What are you thoughts here folks? How best would you use a Dreadnought?

• To compliment a list, or to build a list around? Will the beta rules affect your list(s)?
• Will you be running multiple units?
• Footslog or transport?
• What weapons choices are you taking and does the above affect how you run them?
• Are you buffing this unit? If so, how?
• Stratagems of note?

Over to you.

[Jolemai]

Should you want your model on display here (or on another thread from the series), then submit a photo here please.

[Panzer]

Regular every day Dreadnoughts, or the BA specific Dreadnoughts?

[Jolemai]

Regular every day Dreadnoughts, or the BA specific Dreadnoughts?

 

That would be the Datasheet entry on page 107 of Codex: Blood Angels. Anything else is covered with it's own Unit of the Week entry.

[Grazcruzk]

I don't think I've ever regretted taking a dread with x2 twin auto cannon. Very cheap and solid long range fire support in my opinion. I can usually keep it 50% obscured for cover pretty easily and with Wisdom of the Ancients you have the option to give rerolls to nearby devs or other long range shooters if there is not a captain around. Even on their own just taking up space in the backfield to deny deepstriking is great as he'll most likely not need to move. I don't have a lot of experience with other load outs because I tend to use BA specific variants and sieges for close range work.

[Charlo]

Autocannons certainly seem the go-to. Twin Las is pretty nice too, getting the same amount of Lascannon as a Predator.

 

Don't ever forget Wisdom of the Ancients (1CP) to give your two-legged box a 6" re-roll 1s to hit aura!

[Majkhel]

It should be mentioned that Codex entry (as per Jole's clarification) allows us to equip only one set of Twin-Autocanons/Twin-Lascanon. The CC arm can be swapped for a ML.

That being said the shooty option seems the most optimal way to go in this edition. 
The TwinLas+ML version is 2 pts more and 2 wounds less than a fully kitted (HK missile+SB) TwinLas Razor. No transport capability of course, but Dreadnought does not degrade, can shoot its missiles every turn, can provide re-roll aura, is waaaaay better in CC and is arguably easier to hide/cover due to smaller base. The longer it lives, the better pulls his weight ahead of the said Razorback in terms of damage output. 

He definitely cannot be your only damage-dealing vehicle though so taking a dread means you have to take more than one and/or some other shooty vehicles. 
As for the actual support, I have taken a Techmarine for a cheap HQ for a Speahead detachment on several occasions but he rarely pulls his weight as adding D3 wounds to only 1 of the surviving vehicles is not much really with all that anti-tank shots on the tables. I'm thinking if a bare-bones Captain wouldn't be better, saving me a CP for aura strat and providing better counter-charge options. 

So in terms of support: standard shooty support of Captain and/or Lieutenant. As for the Techamrine, I'm not sure he's worth it, although his greatest pro is being cheap.

[Karhedron]

As for the Techamrine, I'm not sure he's worth it, although his greatest pro is being cheap.

I think the Techmarine needs to be repairing high-value vehicles to get his points back. A Rhino is only worth 7 points per wound so a Techmarine would have to fix a lot of wounds to be worth his points. A Landraider on the other hand is worth nearly 20 points per wound so even 1 round of repairs will be decent value.

[Charlo]

I'd also advocate (especially in BA more than any other chapter because of our unique dreads), never give a basic dreadnought a close combat weapon.

 

Because of the penalties to moving and shooting heavy weapons, you will just end up with a disjointed unit unable to perform any task too effectively.

 

If you want combat, grab a Librarian, Furioso or Death Company dead - if you want Dakka, go with a basic dread with two guns.

[Jolemai]

It should be mentioned that Codex entry (as per Jole's clarification) allows us to equip only one set of Twin-Autocanons/Twin-Lascanon. The CC arm can be swapped for a ML.

 

 

My clarification was referring to that particular entry instead of, say, a Furioso Dreadnought.

 

So long as Index wargear options remain legal there's no reason why they shouldn't be discussed.

[Jolemai]

So far in this edition, I've only used my Dreadnought as a Rifleman twice. In the last game with my Dreadnought list I parked him next to my Devastator Squad (with Lieutenant nearby) to make use of Wisdom of the Ancients in lieu of having a Captain around. To echo the thoughts above, the long range of the autocannons compliments this usage nicely and doesn't make too tantalising a target.

 

I would consider the Hellfire pattern (twin lascannon, missile launcher) in this role but that may bump him up the target priority. I'd also consider swapping one of those weapons out for a single twin autocannon depending on points/local meta.

 

I'm yet to use a "hybrid" type regular Dreadnought in my games. (i.e. power fist, assault cannon). If I were, I'd use it like i would a budget Fragioso/Leviathan and give him a lift with my Stormraven (there are better choices for a Lucius Pod imo) - basically, it should be used in a support role for 1) eating overwatch, 2) fire support, and 3) Wisdom of the Ancients. Going power fist + twin lascannon could work as a budget Contemptor/Chaplain Dreadnought too. Here the question becomes what to pair him with. If in a Stormraven, perhaps Scouts/RAS for objective grabbing/storming? I appreciate that I'm fishing for tiddlers here but not everything has to have a power level over 9000.

 

Small arms fire would be the storm bolter, with the other two depending heavily on the rest of the army for inclusion. If I were to footslog I'd be tempted to use the assault weapon types but I'd end up not using it due to smoke launcher use...

 

 

 

 

 

To add the twin autocannon Dreadnought is now cheaper than the twin autocannon Mortis Dreadnought, with the different only being it's battlefield role (Elite vs Heavy Support).

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

How do ppl rate the MM?

[Karhedron]

How do ppl rate the MM?

Not very highly. I don't like a short-ranged Heavy 1 weapon on a platform that will normally be hitting on a 4+ due to movement.

 

There are better platforms to carry melta IMHO.

[Thoridon]

How do ppl rate the MM?

I've used a Combat Weapon / Multi-Melta Dreadnought a few times in 8th as I have an old metal model with that loadout and like to dust it off now and then.

 

I'd say overall it feels less effective than other variants. The Multi-melta itself is largely insignificant in how the game pans out as it typically gets 1 shot off before being locked in melee and that 1 shot, on the move, usually ends up failing at the hit/wound stage or occasionally getting a few wounds in. When it does reach melee I always wish it was a DC Dreadnought with a pair of talons.

 

It's not an expensive unit though, and marching it forward does act as a big red distraction. It's not going to win a game on its own but can be an extra threat in support of other units. it's just a variant that needs a little luck to give nice returns, as the Multi-Melta only shines under 12" and realistically you're looking at 1 chance a game to get a good hit in with it and then need some good rolling in melee with only the 4 base attacks to work with. A lascannon/missile launcher build sitting back to provide fire support has the extra range and firepower to get hits in over multiple turns but the combat/melta build does have more of a BA feel :)

[Bonzi]

I am a huge fan of the humble dreadnought. If you don't have other armor or distractions for you opponent they can die incredibly fast, but in a list with Death Company Dreds, Preds, or aggressive flyers these guys can shine.

 

I actually do use the fist/lascannon combo even though most don't recommend it and it generally pays good dividend. If you run them, keep in mind a few key things.

 

#1. Dreds are not frontline units. Leave that to the specialist Dreds and jump troops. Dreds work best as midfield or backfield support.

 

#2. Never be afraid to move a Dred to get better fire lines, better board control, or to hide from enemy ant-tank guns. You don't have to fire on a 3+ every turn. Too many people get stuck in this mindset. Dreds are not fixed turrets and if you use them as such they'll disappoint compared to other options.

 

#3. Basic Dreds are exceedingly competent in close combat. They hit hard and can take people by surprise because many players expect them to be used as stationary turrets. I often surge Dreds forward to catch aggressive or fast enemy units that are coming to attack my backfield units. I have caught Armigers, Bikers, and Ork buggies all by surprise as my lascannon Dred moves forward and shows my enemy that Captain Smash isn't the only guy that hits hard in CC.

 

#4. Never forget the Ancients stratagem!

 

Another way I love to use Dreds is to take a Raven, load two five man Tacticals and a regular Dred and race it across the board turn 1. I don't subscribe to putting uber units in the Raven, but tacs and Dreds are cheap and surprisingly dangerous if you drop them into the middle of an enemy, especially if you have an aggressive army swamping the opponents target priority.

[Panzer]

#3. Basic Dreds are exceedingly competent in close combat. They hit hard and can take people by surprise because many players expect them to be used as stationary turrets. I often surge Dreds forward to catch aggressive or fast enemy units that are coming to attack my backfield units. I have caught Armigers, Bikers, and Ork buggies all by surprise as my lascannon Dred moves forward and shows my enemy that Captain Smash isn't the only guy that hits hard in CC.

 

 

Which is honestly quite funny for me because years ago when I first saw some 40k matches the Dreadnought always appeared to me as a scary melee monster with a heavy gun rather than a scary shooty guy that can punch. :D

[Bonzi]

 

 

#3. Basic Dreds are exceedingly competent in close combat. They hit hard and can take people by surprise because many players expect them to be used as stationary turrets. I often surge Dreds forward to catch aggressive or fast enemy units that are coming to attack my backfield units. I have caught Armigers, Bikers, and Ork buggies all by surprise as my lascannon Dred moves forward and shows my enemy that Captain Smash isn't the only guy that hits hard in CC.

 

Which is honestly quite funny for me because years ago when I first saw some 40k matches the Dreadnought always appeared to me as a scary melee monster with a heavy gun rather than a scary shooty guy that can punch. :D

It's just an odd side effect of this shooting centric edition where everyone is obsessed with maximized and optimized shooting. Truthfully I die a little inside every time I watch a Space Marine player run a castle list even though I know for most chapters it's the only thing they can do to survive.

[Panzer]

It's not just this edition unfortunately. 40k in general is a very shooty game.

[Paladin777]

The proverbial knife to a gun fight. The flip side is in a real altercation the knife has the advantage when at close range, just like 40k. The trick in both is getting there...

[Morticon]

This thread gave me an idea for a killer list....