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War Zone Vigilus: Abaddon vs Calgar


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#76
SpecialIssue

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*People saying Guilliman vs Abbadon would be a close fight*

 

Well why not? Are the Primarchs somehow unimpeachable in their power? It makes the most sense from a narrative and thematic standpoint (not to mentions his wargear alone being crazy-powerful). Anything else seems like a weakness with following through with the narrative and progression of Abaddon's character just to keep the Primarchs special snowflakes for fans.

 

 

honestly? yeah it matters, in talon of horus, when they have their rumble with clone horus, it takes a decent sized group of the most badass of badass chaos marines to take him down, people say abaddon killed him - abaddon landed the finishing blow, but it took them all. It's naive to think otherwise. Likewise, Abaddon only beats sigismund because sigi is old and slow, and even then sigi almost wins, and all the chaos marines in the vicinity are "dealt with" to hide that fact in the aftermath.

HH rules get it right, no marine, even sigismund at the height of his ability can defeat a primarch in one on one fighting. To have that change will actually not be good for the setting, regardless of what some might desperately want.

Should Abaddon be able to beat Calgar? Yeah, I would say he should be able to defeat any loyalist, except for Guilliman, whom I think he should be able to badly bloody, but not defeat.

 

 

However, that is all without taking into account Abaddon's current power. He was without the Murder Sword against Horus (and still managed to gut him with all the Primarch's advantage in speed and resilience), and with both Horus and Sigismund he still wasn't the explicit Warmaster of Chaos, chosen and empowered of the gods. Sigismund is the pinnacle of what a Marine can be, but Abaddon has broken that rule because that is what you can do with Chaos - break natural physical rules and limitations. The prices and risks of doing so don't need to be mentioned, but Abaddon's entire character worth is around him overcoming all that.


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#77
PaladinStormlord

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I am trying to gauge Abaddon's power level when compared to Magnus. Is a Deamon Primarch more powerful then Abaddon with all the blessings? I faintly recall RG getting beat down while on the moon until ALL of the support from Terra showed including a handful of blanks to stifle his Psychic powers. Please understand, not trying to derail, just trying to understand the 40k power levels a little better.



#78
Jarl Caldersson

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I am trying to gauge Abaddon's power level when compared to Magnus. Is a Deamon Primarch more powerful then Abaddon with all the blessings? I faintly recall RG getting beat down while on the moon until ALL of the support from Terra showed including a handful of blanks to stifle his Psychic powers. Please understand, not trying to derail, just trying to understand the 40k power levels a little better.

Power levels are all based on how the author and story dictate.

However Abaddon may be Horus, in which he is a Daemon Primarch with 4 major blessings vs Daemon Primarchs with 1 major or several lesser blessings.

Edited by Jarl Caldersson, 15 March 2019 - 01:45 AM.

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#79
Master Commander Ajax

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Abaddon would beat Calgar easily for the singular reason that he’s far cooler.

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#80
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I am trying to gauge Abaddon's power level when compared to Magnus. Is a Deamon Primarch more powerful then Abaddon with all the blessings? I faintly recall RG getting beat down while on the moon until ALL of the support from Terra showed including a handful of blanks to stifle his Psychic powers. Please understand, not trying to derail, just trying to understand the 40k power levels a little better.


In a vacuum, a Daemon Primarch would outclass Abbadon (and really pretty much anything). But they don't have the kind of support and resources Abbadon has. Abbadon isn't the ultimate villain of 40k because of his power levels, it's because he and his forces are truly the greatest threat to the Imperium there is.
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#81
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So, Calgar's new miniature will now be terrain for Abaddon's new miniature? Okay... facepalm.png


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#82
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Bwahahaha Calgar is nothing more than a big blue speedbump for Abbadon. Dude beat Siggy, and while he was a thousand years old, that’s still effin Siggy.

Don’t know why GW can’t just be like, “yeah this is a fight between baby seals and the actor who played the mountain, armed with toys r us hulk gloves” XD

Nothing wrong with outright saying it’s going to be a slaughter...ya know, grimdark.
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#83
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Don’t know why GW can’t just be like, “yeah this is a fight between baby seals and the actor who played the mountain, armed with toys r us hulk gloves” XD

Nothing wrong with outright saying it’s going to be a slaughter...ya know, grimdark.


Because it makes for poor narrative?

Why would non-Chaos players bother becoming emotionally invested if there's not even a good fight, just Abbadon showing up and everyone else dies? Why would Chaos players care if there's not even the possibility of a challenge, just a curb-stomp?
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#84
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Don’t know why GW can’t just be like, “yeah this is a fight between baby seals and the actor who played the mountain, armed with toys r us hulk gloves” XD

Nothing wrong with outright saying it’s going to be a slaughter...ya know, grimdark.


Because it makes for poor narrative?

Why would non-Chaos players bother becoming emotionally invested if there's not even a good fight, just Abbadon showing up and everyone else dies? Why would Chaos players care if there's not even the possibility of a challenge, just a curb-stomp?

 

 

I'd be allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll for Calgar being smashed, utterly. 


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#85
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I hate to even utter the idea, being one of The Black for decades, but I fear meddling by the Emperor will come into play... again. Not calling foul really, just saying.

 

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#86
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hasn't abaddon almost died every time he's come up against the named character lately? Eldrad almost killed him, celestine almost killed him, he killed Kell but couldn't manage to kill Creed. 



#87
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*People saying Guilliman vs Abbadon would be a close fight*

 

Well why not? Are the Primarchs somehow unimpeachable in their power? It makes the most sense from a narrative and thematic standpoint (not to mentions his wargear alone being crazy-powerful). Anything else seems like a weakness with following through with the narrative and progression of Abaddon's character just to keep the Primarchs special snowflakes for fans.

 

 

Oh the irony :D Saying that Abaddon, 40k's poster boy of fan snowflakes needs to be on par with literal demigods, created by a god because they shouldn't be special snowflakes.

 

They're both already special snowflakes. Almost every named character in this setting is.



#88
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I keep seeing people mention Eldrad vs Abaddon as if it reflects poorly on Abaddon, seemingly not remembering that this was just a little bit of lore written to describe what happened in a battle report (where Abaddon died in the game). It really shouldn't be taken seriously as it never occurred in a novel or campaign book.

 

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#89
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Heh... yeah, you could easily swap any of the names with 'my Dad' and 'your Dad' and it could almost fit in on a playground. "Well, my dad..."


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#90
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Heh... yeah, you could easily swap any of the names with 'my Dad' and 'your Dad' and it could almost fit in on a playground. "Well, my dad..."

 

That feels like the tldr of this thread to be honest :P


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#91
sfPanzer

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*People saying Guilliman vs Abbadon would be a close fight*

 

Well why not? Are the Primarchs somehow unimpeachable in their power? It makes the most sense from a narrative and thematic standpoint (not to mentions his wargear alone being crazy-powerful). Anything else seems like a weakness with following through with the narrative and progression of Abaddon's character just to keep the Primarchs special snowflakes for fans.

 

 

honestly? yeah it matters, in talon of horus, when they have their rumble with clone horus, it takes a decent sized group of the most badass of badass chaos marines to take him down, people say abaddon killed him - abaddon landed the finishing blow, but it took them all. It's naive to think otherwise. Likewise, Abaddon only beats sigismund because sigi is old and slow, and even then sigi almost wins, and all the chaos marines in the vicinity are "dealt with" to hide that fact in the aftermath.

HH rules get it right, no marine, even sigismund at the height of his ability can defeat a primarch in one on one fighting. To have that change will actually not be good for the setting, regardless of what some might desperately want.

Should Abaddon be able to beat Calgar? Yeah, I would say he should be able to defeat any loyalist, except for Guilliman, whom I think he should be able to badly bloody, but not defeat.

 

 

I mostly agree. Primarchs are superior to Marines in every regard and by not a small degree. However considering the chaos boons Abaddon carries this time and the weapons he swings I'd say just a few hits should be enough for him to win this thing. Guilliman would have to take care to not get hit at all no matter how strong or fast Abaddon is simply due how devastating his weapons are as his durability and armour would mean little in face of those.

And when we consider the difference between regular people and chaos buffed people I do think Abaddon could fight on a similar level as a Primarch currently. Regular humans can become Daemon Princes who slap around Marines like nothing, Horus became a being that easily(!) defeated Sanguinius where before he was afrait to even having to face him due how good a fighter Sanguinius is, and so on.

 

Celestine is basically a greater daemon of the emperor and her faith affects chaos around her and protects her so one could assume Abaddon couldn't draw out his full power against her but he still won. Guilliman doesn't really have that advantage. Now Ishagu will jump in and tell us that the Emperor himself protects Guilliman, but I dare say that in such an important duel the chaos gods would do something similar to Abaddon or at least block the Emperors intervention for most of the duel.

 

I definitely don't see a duel between Abaddon and Guilliman as clear cut, especially not with Guilliman swinging the Emperors sword ... but to get back on topic, the duel between Abaddon and Calgar should by a ll means be a clear victory for Abaddon as long as it can actually be considered a duel and isn't just Calgar keeping him busy for a short time until reinforcements arrive with heavy weaponry.


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If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#92
Chaplain Dosjetka

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=][= Since no further info has come to light about the second Vigilus book and the Abaddon vs Calgar and/or Guilliman discussion can go on for 10'000 years because it's a subjective discussion that people get emotional about, I'll cut it short. If any pertinent info comes to light, feel free to "report" this post to get it re-opened. =][=

 

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Edited by Chaplain Dosjetka, 15 March 2019 - 07:26 AM.

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