CyberC1 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I am not sold... this works for narrative play, but not sure it'll ever show up in competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Still, just for the fun of it, having 3 squads of 5 fallen plus Cypher, sounds good to me. I think I might just try and get the models for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 If they gain the Imperium Keyword, does that mean that we can use them alongside the Dark Angels themselves? Since they lose the heretic astartes and the <legion> keywords, they would just be Imperium models. I have to say, this does slightly confuse me following CA 2018. For matched play, it states "All of the units in each Detachment in your Battle-forged army must have at least one Faction keyword in common. In addition, this keyword cannot be...IMPERIUM...This has no effect on your Army Faction". I think this means that your army faction would be "Imperium", but all Fallen units would have to be in their own detachment for you to get the battleforged benefits in your other detachments. There doesn't appear to be anything in the DA Codex that prohibits DA and Fallen in the same army, so I believe it ts doable! GIven recent lore, it feels like it might be in-line with fluff too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Yeah, I read it as meaning that cohesion of your army is not an army wide requirement, but a detachment by detachment requirement. Meaning that, as long as you bring, for instance, a Dark Angels batallion and a Fallen vanguard detachments, you would be good to go. And you can even remove the Heretic Astartes and the <Legion> keywords from the Vanguard, for 1CP. So, does this mean you can, indeed, bring a Vanguard of Fallen as a specialist detachment in a Dark Angels army? Aside from the issue of figuring out what to do with them, though. I mean, its taxing yourself with what amounts to three squads of veterans that don't have ATSKNF. If veterans are already rarely used, I see little point in bringing fallen. As interesting as it would be, fluff wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 As I see it, if the beta bolter rule is updated to included the FALLEN keyword, then the main benefits of a Fallen formation instead of vets are: 1CP for a -1 to hit if in cover Access to Infernal Gaze, Death Hex and Gift of Chaos psychic powers in an Imperium army A way of screwing around with CP farms Fluff It's certainly not competitive for your points. I'll do it for the fluff. The Mk III models will make really nice chaos-neutral models, and the Librarian Turmiel model will make a good chaos sorcerer. 3 squads, 10xcombi plasma and 5xcombi bolter, perhaps throw in some rhinos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Bringing fallen in a DA army is heresy of the highest level. Report in chamber 42 for tea, biscuits and re-indoctrination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Bringing fallen in a DA army is heresy of the highest level. Report in chamber 42 for tea, biscuits and re-indoctrination. Awwww, maaaan! ... Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 It was mentioned in another forum that the fallen sorcerers could summon daemon princes which may be more competitive but hurts my brain. Just say no to heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 It was mentioned in another forum that the fallen sorcerers could summon daemon princes which may be more competitive but hurts my brain. Just say no to heresy. Wait, wait, wait... Summoning a Demon Prince is only heretical, in so much as it is bringing forth a twisted abomination from the very depths of the Warp, that has been the sworn enemy of man since untold millenia, that thirsts for the total destruction of humanity's life and soul, and is the living embodiment of everything the Emperor stood for in life and still stand for as he prevails in the Golden Throne; may he watch over us for eons beyond counting. So, you know... Let's not be hasty in judgement here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Summoning will be a no-no, as the <MARK OF CHAOS> keyword is replaced, and IIRC you can only summon daemons from your assigned mark of chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanewatts Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Actually if memory serves, a chaos character with no mark can summon daemons of any flavor. The rule was that if the model was marked it must summon daemons of the same mark. Don't have the rules in front of me, but pretty sure this was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Hmmm, you are only restricted in your choice of daemons if you have a single patron god. So yes, notwithstanding any future FAQ, you would be able to summon any daemon you liked in an Imperium army... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 According to my chaos friend from my gaming group, a Chaos Sorcerer that is unaligned, can summon demons from any kind. An aligned sorcerer can only summon demons from his alignment. So, an unaligned chaos sorcerer in this detachment could summon any type of demon. Also, if you read the fine print, you COULD argue that demons do not fit into the Keyword restrictions of the specialist detachment, but he also pointed out to me that demons are not technically purchased as part of the detachment. Rules state that you need to pay the cost of the summoned unit in advanced, but unlike a unit in reserve, said summoned demon unit does not count in terms of force organization. So, it seems like you COULD make a vanguard detachment with a Chaos Sorcerer, and Fallen Angels, that could legally fit inside of a Dark Angels army, and have them summon demons. Given that the chapter I am making as Dark Angels Successors in my re-founded miniature range has its backstory closely tied with a Tzeentch entity, having a way of bringing in a number of Pink Horrors does sound interesting.... if somewhat heretical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Yeah, reinforcements are completely separate to the main detachment, and also you only have to allocate points too, meaning that you could choose to spend your summoning points on a blob of pink horrors, or alternately a few flamers. Very flexible. Fluff-wise, a renegade librarian and Cypher might fight alongside the DA, but not a Chaos-aligned sorceror with full daemon summoning capability. Given that Cypher has the “No-one’s Puppet” rule, it would seem reasonable that GW might extend this to any sorcerers in the same detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Well, yeah, fluff wise, would be a Librarian gone renegade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONDIG Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 All this 'competitive' talk.Cypher denies an opponent slay the warlord 2/3 of the time ,has a Bodyguard of Combiplaz Chosen AND can use CSM or Imperium as allies. CHALLENGE ACCEPTED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambit Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Without a FAQ, Fallen give Chaos access to Imperial Assasins and Imperium get access to Chaos Daemons... There is arguments that the reinforcements require a matching keyword for the Army Faction on Page 240 of the rulebook (not Battle Forged). While others believe the army faction is only of concern in list building before the game. Believing instead that reinforcements occur during the game and don't have keyword qualifiers. So a FAQ is required for us to know definitively one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Anyone here thinking maybe GW ****ed up on this one, and released a set of rules without realizing the consecuences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Sounds pretty standard for GW to me (Grey Knights first release and the pure cheese that came from that springs to mind) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberC1 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Hmmmm I'm thinking now of a Fallen detachment + IG detachment + Knights, with assassins and some reinforcement points for daemon summoning. Still not convinced it's competitive but it'll make people's heads hurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Good lord Fallen get a LOT of special weapons... What, 5 per squad? They can then roam around with Cypher for re-rolls to hit too without remaining stationary. Bit of a shame they can't take a Chainsword too (Calibanite tendencies) as they need to swap the bolter for the Special or a Chainsword but that is a decent amount of, let's face it, Plasma per squad. A Vanguard with Cypher in Rhinos could be a legitimate core for an army now, especially with the Psyker support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 @Charlo - they're no different really from a Sternguard veteran squad. I'm doing 2 squads of 5xcombi plasma riding around in a rhino with Cypher / Librarian as an anti-vehicle/monster unit, and a squad of 5xcombi-bolter as a backfield objective camper. Won't be massively competitive for the points, but will be fun. And fluffy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 @Charlo - they're no different really from a Sternguard veteran squad. I'm doing 2 squads of 5xcombi plasma riding around in a rhino with Cypher / Librarian as an anti-vehicle/monster unit, and a squad of 5xcombi-bolter as a backfield objective camper. Won't be massively competitive for the points, but will be fun. And fluffy! I guess, it just feels like a lot! And a good amount of Dakka for the points I suppose. Seems a shame they aren't Obj Sec... That would've made sense. The Detachment should've done that really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnerBeta Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 It's funny, I remember how some of us were saddened that only Ravenwing got something in the last book and we speculated that Deathwing might get something in the new one. How naive were we, as even the Fallen got something before Deathwing did lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 It's funny, I remember how some of us were saddened that only Ravenwing got something in the last book and we speculated that Deathwing might get something in the new one. How naive were we, as even the Fallen got something before Deathwing did lol. Are we sure the DW are getting something this edition to begin with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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