The Siege of Terra: Solar War

[b1soul]

What do you not like about French's writing sometimes? Just curious.

[aa.logan]

What do you not like about French's writing sometimes? Just curious.

It’s always objectively *good*; he’s written some of my favourite parts of the Heresy (the short story about the grain elevator and then the and his last two novels really stand out) and his love for the setting seeps through everything he writes. Everything is plausible and his characters have depth. I think sometimes it’s just his prose. It might be too dense for me, or I might be too dense for it. It has a tendency to wash over me in a way that no other BL author does. I’ve found myself on occasion reading and then re-reading a page having found none of it has actually sunk in, the Arihman series was especially bad for that with me.

[Knockagh]

 

What do you not like about French's writing sometimes? Just curious.

It’s always objectively *good*; he’s written some of my favourite parts of the Heresy (the short story about the grain elevator and then the and his last two novels really stand out) and his love for the setting seeps through everything he writes. Everything is plausible and his characters have depth. I think sometimes it’s just his prose. It might be too dense for me, or I might be too dense for it. It has a tendency to wash over me in a way that no other BL author does. I’ve found myself on occasion reading and then re-reading a page having found none of it has actually sunk in, the Arihman series was especially bad for that with me.

I’m with you here. I like selective works by him but struggle with many too. I don’t think I’ve disliked any but just find some pizazz or something missing.

 

When you say ‘I think sometimes it’s just his prose. It might be too dense for me, or I might be too dense for it. It has a tendency to wash over me in a way that no other BL author does. I’ve found myself on occasion reading and then re-reading a page having found none of it has actually sunk in‘

 

I completely with you here. I like his books they can just be a tad bland.

 

Exceptions I can think of off hand are the main Tallarn novel, the second of the Horusian wars books and the short story The Last Remembrancer. Which I loved from start to finish.

[MarineRaider]

I just finished it. It was pretty good but not as good as I had hoped. 

 

Dorn has had the better part of a decade and outside of one surprise for the traitors there wasn't anything worthy of a Primarch who is a master of defense throwing Horus some curveballs. The scale was good but for one throw-away line about how the SOH built up rapidly we don't see how many Fists are in the spheres. 

 

There was a short story that takes place right before this with Malcador and E playing a card game. At the end, the last card has an Eagle tearing the heart out of a serpent. The warp portions of this book should have had a stronger E, I liked the " I deny you" but something that gave him pause, perhaps the E bringing up Russ wounding him.

 

I did not like the Loken/Sadie thread at all. 

 

I would have preferred if Jubal was going out he at the very least cut the stupid topknot off that scumbag First Captain. 

 

There is a great Sci-Fi book called Mutineers Moon, our moon is actually a warship in disguise. When I read the attack on Luna I always have a hard time with even 8k ships overwhelming a moon that is basically a warship with almost unlimited power losing.

 

I hope the series gets better.

[m_r_parker]

I think you’re being overly harsh in your summation there MarineRaider.

 

Regarding Dorn and the defence of the system as a whole, I perceive his denfensive capabilities best applied to more traditional ground combat rather than large scale naval situations. He is after all looking to a Human admiral for advice and strategy in this stage of the siege, rather than running the whole show himself. If he honestly thought he could do a better job, then with the stakes being so high I think he would take the duty more personally.

 

Secondly, with a large naval combat siege there’s little to be done defensively that can take opponents by surprise. It’s the equivalent of defending with your back to a cliff - there’s no where you can retreat to. With the types of craft available defended can be brought down before ships even get close for the likes of boarding actions. Dorn’s gambit with Pluto was good, but it’s not something that can be repeated. I imagine there were some strict words that whilst defense was a priority there had to be something to come back to after the Siege had finished. Even the traitors realised that, hence Abaddon’s mission.

 

With regards to the Emperor, I like the fact he’s represented as being beaten back and not shown as magnificent or strong. The Warp is effectively throwing everything they have at him whilst Horus is attacking, if he could stand that level of onslaught single-handed then there would be cries of the Emperor being OP. Plus, if he’s so overwhelmed keeping the Warp at bay then that explains why he isn’t taking a greater role in the Siege at the moment. I prefer the symbolism of the Warp in this novel, especially between Horus and the Emperor - especially at the end where E amplifies the campfire to show Horus he is never alone, and the Chaos Gods are lurking in the shadows. Regarding the wound by Russ, that’s been resolved fully and I think the Emperor would be able to see that that side of Horus (the part I like to refer as Lupercal) is no longer there.

 

Each to their own, but given the line up of authors I’d say French is top half of that group in my opinion. I’m not looking forward to Gav at all, but am itching for Chris and Aaron.

[MarineRaider]

I think you’re being overly harsh in your summation there MarineRaider.

 

Regarding Dorn and the defence of the system as a whole, I perceive his denfensive capabilities best applied to more traditional ground combat rather than large scale naval situations. He is after all looking to a Human admiral for advice and strategy in this stage of the siege, rather than running the whole show himself. If he honestly thought he could do a better job, then with the stakes being so high I think he would take the duty more personally.

 

Secondly, with a large naval combat siege there’s little to be done defensively that can take opponents by surprise. It’s the equivalent of defending with your back to a cliff - there’s no where you can retreat to. With the types of craft available defended can be brought down before ships even get close for the likes of boarding actions. Dorn’s gambit with Pluto was good, but it’s not something that can be repeated. I imagine there were some strict words that whilst defense was a priority there had to be something to come back to after the Siege had finished. Even the traitors realised that, hence Abaddon’s mission.

 

With regards to the Emperor, I like the fact he’s represented as being beaten back and not shown as magnificent or strong. The Warp is effectively throwing everything they have at him whilst Horus is attacking, if he could stand that level of onslaught single-handed then there would be cries of the Emperor being OP. Plus, if he’s so overwhelmed keeping the Warp at bay then that explains why he isn’t taking a greater role in the Siege at the moment. I prefer the symbolism of the Warp in this novel, especially between Horus and the Emperor - especially at the end where E amplifies the campfire to show Horus he is never alone, and the Chaos Gods are lurking in the shadows. Regarding the wound by Russ, that’s been resolved fully and I think the Emperor would be able to see that that side of Horus (the part I like to refer as Lupercal) is no longer there.

 

Each to their own, but given the line up of authors I’d say French is top half of that group in my opinion. I’m not looking forward to Gav at all, but am itching for Chris and Aaron.

 

Thanks for the reply. I guess each of us takes away something different. Curious, if the E has seen that Horus is beyond redemption this early in the siege then why hold back when they face each other? He should just go in and blow him away and be done with it as everything I've read before these books states he does just that, holds back not believing he has fallen fully. Of course this flies in the face of what the Primarchs ( even RG in 40k) believed that he didn't care about them as sons but only weapons of war.

 

In strictly military terms Dorn had exactly one gambit? I find that hard to believe and for someone who is possibly more geared to land conflict he sure built a hell of a ship. I suppose I apply my own military background and training in everything I read and it taints me. But in my world, Corax would have ghosted in and slit Horus across the throat.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

I think you’re being overly harsh in your summation there MarineRaider.

 

Regarding Dorn and the defence of the system as a whole, I perceive his denfensive capabilities best applied to more traditional ground combat rather than large scale naval situations. He is after all looking to a Human admiral for advice and strategy in this stage of the siege, rather than running the whole show himself. If he honestly thought he could do a better job, then with the stakes being so high I think he would take the duty more personally.

 

Secondly, with a large naval combat siege there’s little to be done defensively that can take opponents by surprise. It’s the equivalent of defending with your back to a cliff - there’s no where you can retreat to. With the types of craft available defended can be brought down before ships even get close for the likes of boarding actions. Dorn’s gambit with Pluto was good, but it’s not something that can be repeated. I imagine there were some strict words that whilst defense was a priority there had to be something to come back to after the Siege had finished. Even the traitors realised that, hence Abaddon’s mission.

 

With regards to the Emperor, I like the fact he’s represented as being beaten back and not shown as magnificent or strong. The Warp is effectively throwing everything they have at him whilst Horus is attacking, if he could stand that level of onslaught single-handed then there would be cries of the Emperor being OP. Plus, if he’s so overwhelmed keeping the Warp at bay then that explains why he isn’t taking a greater role in the Siege at the moment. I prefer the symbolism of the Warp in this novel, especially between Horus and the Emperor - especially at the end where E amplifies the campfire to show Horus he is never alone, and the Chaos Gods are lurking in the shadows. Regarding the wound by Russ, that’s been resolved fully and I think the Emperor would be able to see that that side of Horus (the part I like to refer as Lupercal) is no longer there.

 

Each to their own, but given the line up of authors I’d say French is top half of that group in my opinion. I’m not looking forward to Gav at all, but am itching for Chris and Aaron.

Thanks for the reply. I guess each of us takes away something different. Curious, if the E has seen that Horus is beyond redemption this early in the siege then why hold back when they face each other? He should just go in and blow him away and be done with it as everything I've read before these books states he does just that, holds back not believing he has fallen fully. Of course this flies in the face of what the Primarchs ( even RG in 40k) believed that he didn't care about them as sons but only weapons of war.

 

In strictly military terms Dorn had exactly one gambit? I find that hard to believe and for someone who is possibly more geared to land conflict he sure built a hell of a ship. I suppose I apply my own military background and training in everything I read and it taints me. But in my world, Corax would have ghosted in and slit Horus across the throat.

There aren’t any conditions where that is possible simply because the supernatural qualities that allow people not to see Corax (or hear his armor) applies equally to Horus and are only enhanced by his corruption.

[MarineRaider]

 

 

I think you’re being overly harsh in your summation there MarineRaider.

 

Regarding Dorn and the defence of the system as a whole, I perceive his denfensive capabilities best applied to more traditional ground combat rather than large scale naval situations. He is after all looking to a Human admiral for advice and strategy in this stage of the siege, rather than running the whole show himself. If he honestly thought he could do a better job, then with the stakes being so high I think he would take the duty more personally.

 

Secondly, with a large naval combat siege there’s little to be done defensively that can take opponents by surprise. It’s the equivalent of defending with your back to a cliff - there’s no where you can retreat to. With the types of craft available defended can be brought down before ships even get close for the likes of boarding actions. Dorn’s gambit with Pluto was good, but it’s not something that can be repeated. I imagine there were some strict words that whilst defense was a priority there had to be something to come back to after the Siege had finished. Even the traitors realised that, hence Abaddon’s mission.

 

With regards to the Emperor, I like the fact he’s represented as being beaten back and not shown as magnificent or strong. The Warp is effectively throwing everything they have at him whilst Horus is attacking, if he could stand that level of onslaught single-handed then there would be cries of the Emperor being OP. Plus, if he’s so overwhelmed keeping the Warp at bay then that explains why he isn’t taking a greater role in the Siege at the moment. I prefer the symbolism of the Warp in this novel, especially between Horus and the Emperor - especially at the end where E amplifies the campfire to show Horus he is never alone, and the Chaos Gods are lurking in the shadows. Regarding the wound by Russ, that’s been resolved fully and I think the Emperor would be able to see that that side of Horus (the part I like to refer as Lupercal) is no longer there.

 

Each to their own, but given the line up of authors I’d say French is top half of that group in my opinion. I’m not looking forward to Gav at all, but am itching for Chris and Aaron.

Thanks for the reply. I guess each of us takes away something different. Curious, if the E has seen that Horus is beyond redemption this early in the siege then why hold back when they face each other? He should just go in and blow him away and be done with it as everything I've read before these books states he does just that, holds back not believing he has fallen fully. Of course this flies in the face of what the Primarchs ( even RG in 40k) believed that he didn't care about them as sons but only weapons of war.

 

In strictly military terms Dorn had exactly one gambit? I find that hard to believe and for someone who is possibly more geared to land conflict he sure built a hell of a ship. I suppose I apply my own military background and training in everything I read and it taints me. But in my world, Corax would have ghosted in and slit Horus across the throat.

There aren’t any conditions where that is possible simply because the supernatural qualities that allow people not to see Corax (or hear his armor) applies equally to Horus and are only enhanced by his corruption.

 

I think those conditions only apply to the writer composing the novel. 

[Marshal Rohr]

That is totally fair, but I’d still consider that when Curze fought Sanguinius their ‘talents’ negated one another and Curze wasn’t a champion of Chaos. Similarly Corax was not able to use his talents against Lorgar. While an author could create the conditions for Corax to slit a throat here and there, the baseline is that such an attempt wouldn’t work.

[MarineRaider]

That is totally fair, but I’d still consider that when Curze fought Sanguinius their ‘talents’ negated one another and Curze wasn’t a champion of Chaos. Similarly Corax was not able to use his talents against Lorgar. While an author could create the conditions for Corax to slit a throat here and there, the baseline is that such an attempt wouldn’t work.

 

Plus it would have made for a very short series!

[b1soul]

Curze was Chaos-tainted by Thramas I believe...agree that I wouldn't call him a Chaos champion though

[helterskelter]

Curze was Chaos-tainted by Thramas I believe...agree that I wouldn't call him a Chaos champion though

There's a distinct difference between chaos tainted and insanity, the fact that chaos taint was so heavy handedly shoe horned in with Skraivok should re-iterate that Curze is losing his mind over being corrupted, he does have a loose split personality after all.

His men and the sorcerors might display corruption, and by the time of his execution he may have been suffering, but the fact he would rather be killed than kill shows he didn't outwardly bend to the whim of Gods.

[Moonreaper666]

 

Curze was Chaos-tainted by Thramas I believe...agree that I wouldn't call him a Chaos champion though

There's a distinct difference between chaos tainted and insanity, the fact that chaos taint was so heavy handedly shoe horned in with Skraivok should re-iterate that Curze is losing his mind over being corrupted, he does have a loose split personality after all.

His men and the sorcerors might display corruption, and by the time of his execution he may have been suffering, but the fact he would rather be killed than kill shows he didn't outwardly bend to the whim of Gods.

Curze, Perturabo and the Twins were not power-boosted by Chaos unlike the other Traitor Primarchs

[b1soul]

I think that's an open question 

[Fedor]

A feeling i've been getting from reading some of the broader descriptions and spoilers is that the Blood Angels are missing again, like they were for vast majority of Imperium secundus arc. The latter didn't really bother me much, but here it seems they would have to be heavily involved in the defending. How true is this? Do they get mentioned as being present in the fighting, but just don't get focused on?.

[Moonreaper666]

A feeling i've been getting from reading some of the broader descriptions and spoilers is that the Blood Angels are missing again, like they were for vast majority of Imperium secundus arc. The latter didn't really bother me much, but here it seems they would have to be heavily involved in the defending. How true is this? Do they get mentioned as being present in the fighting, but just don't get focused on?.

Wouldn't surprise me since only the IF are tasked with defending all other planets and moons in the Sol System. The WS and BA are on Terra since neither Legion has a big fleet nor a lot of experience in Space Combat

[Marshal Rohr]

The blood angels have a large fleet. Did you even read malevolence or do you make this up as you go?

[karden00]

The blood angels have a large fleet. Did you even read malevolence or do you make this up as you go?

In fairness, frater, I can understand how one might guess the BL do not have a large fleet.

 

Many of us only dabble in the HH series, with revelations from the FW books being only available by way of piracy or patching through some details from indirect sourcing. I don’t want to speak for anyone, but my own knowledge of what is currently canon is limited by what resources I have access to, be it by choice or financial restraints. Nothing I can readily recall from the main novel series (that of course handled the IXth quite poorly) spoke of them being an especially significant naval force.

Again, I don’t want to step into anything, but that’s my 2 cents.

Edited April 23, 2019 by karden00

[Marshal Rohr]

 

The blood angels have a large fleet. Did you even read malevolence or do you make this up as you go?

In fairness, frater, I can understand how one might guess the BL do not have a large fleet.

 

Many of us only dabble in the HH series, with revelations from the FW books being only available by way of piracy or patching through some details from indirect sourcing. I don’t want to speak for anyone, but my own knowledge of what is currently canon is limited by what resources I have access to, be it by choice or financial restraints. Nothing I can readily recall from the main novel series (that of course handled the IXth quite poorly) spoke of them being an especially significant naval force.

Again, I don’t want to step into anything, but that’s my 2 cents.

 

 

I'll try to post summaries of each legion fleet prior to the Heresy in the AoD forums sometime soon. 

[Moonreaper666]

 

The blood angels have a large fleet. Did you even read malevolence or do you make this up as you go?

In fairness, frater, I can understand how one might guess the BL do not have a large fleet.

 

Many of us only dabble in the HH series, with revelations from the FW books being only available by way of piracy or patching through some details from indirect sourcing. I don’t want to speak for anyone, but my own knowledge of what is currently canon is limited by what resources I have access to, be it by choice or financial restraints. Nothing I can readily recall from the main novel series (that of course handled the IXth quite poorly) spoke of them being an especially significant naval force.

Again, I don’t want to step into anything, but that’s my 2 cents.

But the Imperial Fists have the LARGEST fleet of all the Astartes Legions. And the Blood Angels did lose a lot of ship people (most Astartes don't operate ships) at Signus Prime

 

And the Blood Angels (who had to share resources with the Ultramarines and Dark Angels) haven't been recruiting new Marines or building/conscripting new ships at the same rate as the Imperial Fists (who have more dibs at planets and resources)

[Lord_Caerolion]

Keep in mind, however, that the Blood Angels geneseed is able to be implanted in recipients that would be unsuitable for other gene-lines.

[Fedor]

It makes little senset hat i can see to hold the Blood Angels back on Terra at this late stage in the game. Keep a reserve of course, but they should be in the thick of the defending by now.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Without knowing more, it's because the Blood Angels are still somewhat recovering from reaching Terra, while the Imperial Fists are both waiting and ready for action, as well as being the premier naval fighters among the Legions.

[rendingon1+]

Heaven't read it yet but:

Killing Jubal is really lame. Any idea why French decided to kill him?

[b1soul]

Someone had to die to up the stakes...the WS have a smaller fanbase and their characters are more safe to kill off