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What's Working, Kin? Why?


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#1
Karack Blackstone

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Hello all.

 

I'm going to change up my usual "What's working?" thread into a slightly different approach.

 

What's working for you?

Why?

 

Basically, please figure out why you're doing well with the units you're running, what tactics, Strategems and other supporting elements are earning your hopefully worthy displays on the table!

 

I haven't gotten many games in, but I tell you what, nearly 60 PA SW's on an 8' x 8' table in 3K pts. is going to draw a great deal of hate and be rather tough to shift or drag down! As it is, lists have some pretty decent consistencies; what is working for you, why, and how might you and others therefore apply the correct paths to victory as the units change, and so too should the methods of earning a win?

 

Have at!



#2
Karack Blackstone

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So, what am I missing that people are unwilling to post?

I've found one thing out about Wolves that I'm pretty sure most already knew:

 

When in doubt, charge.

 

As far as outside of that, the single biggest problem tactics wise is maneuverability. The Wolves lack it, and it's pretty expensive. The problem is screening for the advancing unit with either a second unit providing fire support to cover their movement, or, if more than one nearby unit needs to move, the fire support elements in the rear being able to provide actual covering fire is a very serious problem, even with the fifth heavy weapon.

 

If the Wolves have any one single fallback, however, it's that Wolves should, given the chance, charge. Now even more than ever; passing up on the +1 to hit is huge, let alone it's just what the Wolves do, and with good reason. A solid, sturdy charge can turn the tide of a fight, and fighting first suits the Wolves very well. I do expect that many knew this already; to those that need to read or reread it, by all means, that's how it is done!



#3
Yoyo ninja

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I'm thinking people are just feeling a little down on our codex at the moment. I'm reading a lot of negativity about our book, so maybe people don't feel that they can say what's working? Dunno.

Personally, I've not been playing much, my LGS closed down and the next one is an hour away.
The few times I have played have been tournaments, although not as a mono dex, I ran a Wolves vanguard, Knights and Admech battalion.
With the wolves part of my list was mostly just a deathball. Wulfen, 2 axe/shield dreads, Rune Priest and Wolf Lord, then a couple units of Long Fangs. The deathball caught people off guard, with negatives to hit, lots of invuns and reasonable speed, it did lots of work for me, even against the dreaded castellan. I ran these guys straight down the board, hugging cover, casting tempests wrath and cloaked by the storm. just forced my opponent to castle up around his castellan so I controlled the board. With other big distractions on the board (Knights) gives opponents pause for though when choosing targets. Seemed to work alright.
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#4
lonewolf81

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Everybody is unhappy with our codex I get it but you can still use some combos unique to wolves. The one I think is great is using the new phobos rune priest as warlord with the new +1 to hit warlord trait along with a smash wolf lord in a battalion and a smash battle leader in a vanguard. The runepriest gets the mind raid power for Cp regen and the temporal corridor for puting him into position. He gives - 1 to hit bubble to as much units as possible and +1 to hit to a storm fang with rerolls from Lord and battle leader. In the following turn you outflank 6 aggressors giving them +1 to hit and rerolls and then you charge with +1 to hit power fists. The smash hqs act as mele bodyguards for your moving castle. One gets the armour of russ and the other the wulfen stone.

You can also outflank multimelta longfangs with +1 to hit, reroll wounds and keen senses (basically rerolling everything with ignoring any modifiers and being able to deploy within 12 for the melta rule

Edited by lonewolf81, 26 March 2019 - 08:58 AM.


#5
One Two Wolf

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I've had one recent game where again it was long fangs doing work. Won due to a single failed save from my opponent - his last dude casting death all over the place - if he'd passed then his turn would have seen my last grey hunters smited to wherever smited legends go.

So to answer the question, 3 CP spent on 4 lascannon toting long fangs (outflank, no penalties, reroll wounds).

To make a suggestion, if I may, about something that might work well...infiltrators as an expensive smite/charge screen rather than objective grabbers. Drop smoke (their popguns aren't much to miss out on), sat in cover and hope one of them lives. As well as that screen they could provide breathing space to get others forward, a bit of bubble security against deep strikers and are a nice new painting project. I've had a good think about the other vanguard models and rather than rush to get the box for them I'm more interested in the CSM in it (blushes). The infiltrators used sacrificially like this was just a thought and may be prohibitively expensive but if anyone thinks it is perhaps something that could help get the chaps into CQC it may be worth a try?

#6
Bulwyf

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I am going to try the below list against my friend's black legion list.

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [64 PL, 1103pts] ++

+ HQ +

Njal Stormcaller [7 PL, 138pts]: 2. Tempest's Wrath, 4. Fury of the Wolf Spirits, 5. Storm Caller

Primaris Battle Leader [4 PL, 75pts]: Power axe and bolt carbine

Wolf Priest [6 PL, 97pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Packs, Saga of Majesty, Warlord

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword

+ Flyer +

Stormwolf [16 PL, 269pts]: Twin helfrost cannon
. Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon
. Two Twin Heavy Bolters: 2x Twin heavy bolter

Stormwolf [16 PL, 269pts]: Twin helfrost cannon
. Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon
. Two Twin Heavy Bolters: 2x Twin heavy bolter

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [51 PL, 896pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Space Wolves

+ HQ +

Wolf Priest [6 PL, 97pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Packs

+ Elites +

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 155pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [13 PL, 190pts]: 2x Twin lascannon

Wulfen [11 PL, 227pts]
. 4x Thunder hammer & Stormshield: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer
. 4x Wulfen
. Wulfen Pack Leader: Frost claws

Wulfen [11 PL, 227pts]
. 4x Thunder hammer & Stormshield: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer
. 4x Wulfen
. Wulfen Pack Leader: Frost claws

++ Total: [115 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

 

Two stormwolf to cart the Wulfen all with TH/SS. The wolf priests give them reroll in fight phase plus give them leadership. Njal is in one for psyker protection. The primaris LT sits back with the two dreds giving them reroll of 1 on wounds. The primaris troop squat on objectives.

 

I have 6 las cannons, 4 helfrost cannons and about a million attacks from the Wulfen. The WP with Njal has the Armor of Russ relic to keep something from fighting until last. It is fun, fluffy and should I hope give me at least a chance of victory.


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#7
Karack Blackstone

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Bulwyf, I really hate to do this, but are you running nine Wulfen in each pack?

 

If a Wulfen is two PA models, you have one more Wulfen than permitted due to transport capacity in each Stormwolf. If you had 4 Wulfen w/ TH/SS, 3 Wulfen, 1 Wulfen Leader, then it wouldn't be an issue.

 

I truly apologize, but sadly I thought it worth mentioning ASAP.



#8
Yoyo ninja

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That's just the way battlescribe puts 4 wulfen with thunder hammers and storm shields. He's putting 5 wulfen in each stormwolf.
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#9
Karack Blackstone

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Fair.

 

That program concerns me sometimes, and at times, far too much...

 

Thanks for the input.



#10
Bulwyf

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That's just the way battlescribe puts 4 wulfen with thunder hammers and storm shields. He's putting 5 wulfen in each stormwolf.

 

Yep. I'm tempted to put in a rune priest in the other squad but I'd rather have the primaris LT. If it works out the RP is better I can drop the LT and add that. If you give your opponent two stormwolves with squad of wulfen with support in each one they can't deal with both.


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#11
Loshkins

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Bjorn/RP/WL/WGBL - all great. Wulfen dreads are amazing as well. Beyond that, any of the SW specific units are ok at best. IMO Wulfen are very overrated.  



#12
Yoyo ninja

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Fair.

That program concerns me sometimes, and at times, far too much...

Thanks for the input.


It's a useful tool, but it has its limitations. I do like it for making lists quickly though.

Anyone tried any of the new vanguard units? I'm liking the look of the psyker powers and the eliminators look like they will come in handy. Just interested if anyone had tried them?
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#13
Triszin

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Fair.

That program concerns me sometimes, and at times, far too much...

Thanks for the input.

It's a useful tool, but it has its limitations. I do like it for making lists quickly though.

Anyone tried any of the new vanguard units? I'm liking the look of the psyker powers and the eliminators look like they will come in handy. Just interested if anyone had tried them?

I'm curious too. I'm building mine atm, and curious is a infiltrators squad will work as bubble wrap for long fangs
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#14
Yoyo ninja

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I think the infiltrators will be to expensive as bubble wrap. Might as well use greyhunters. They might work as speed bumps at a push, but you would have the same issue with them being very expensive to throw into slowing down hoards of marauding orks etc. Duno, will take some play testing.
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#15
Triszin

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I think the infiltrators will be to expensive as bubble wrap. Might as well use greyhunters. They might work as speed bumps at a push, but you would have the same issue with them being very expensive to throw into slowing down hoards of marauding orks etc. Duno, will take some play testing.


Ya, I'm Not looking at there weapons, just the 12" deny deepstrike bubble. Even a squad of 5 , well placed could help. Depending on circumstances
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#16
Yoyo ninja

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Yea, that has potential I guess.hmmm
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#17
TiguriusX

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If you want LF DS bubble the cheapest options are a single cyber wolf or MSU servitors (5 more points than wolf but 4 models to spread out a bit more). Can duplicate the infiltration no 12" ds by shoving your unit further away (yes enemy can still make a charge but this is a cheap expendable speed bump)

However in the current meta with loyal 32 mortars everywhere those options tend to give up kill points too easy. Only counter is being out of mortar range so know your distances

Edited by TiguriusX, 28 March 2019 - 01:49 PM.

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#18
Bulwyf

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Use wolves as cheap screens if you need to do it. It is pretty much our only option.


Edited by Bulwyf, 28 March 2019 - 03:05 PM.

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#19
Yoyo ninja

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Infiltrators might be good for turn one board control. 24" no go zone for deep stike is massive. I can see them being really good against alpha/beta strike armies.
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#20
WolfLordZeev

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Infiltrators also get better when playing ITC or any progressive scoring scenario. Getting those early objective points or points for Recon and such.

Good in Maelstrom for the same reason.

#21
Bulwyf

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I am going to try the below list against my friend's black legion list.

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [64 PL, 1103pts] ++

+ HQ +

Njal Stormcaller [7 PL, 138pts]: 2. Tempest's Wrath, 4. Fury of the Wolf Spirits, 5. Storm Caller

Primaris Battle Leader [4 PL, 75pts]: Power axe and bolt carbine

Wolf Priest [6 PL, 97pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Packs, Saga of Majesty, Warlord

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword

+ Flyer +

Stormwolf [16 PL, 269pts]: Twin helfrost cannon
. Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon
. Two Twin Heavy Bolters: 2x Twin heavy bolter

Stormwolf [16 PL, 269pts]: Twin helfrost cannon
. Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon
. Two Twin Heavy Bolters: 2x Twin heavy bolter

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [51 PL, 896pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Space Wolves

+ HQ +

Wolf Priest [6 PL, 97pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Packs

+ Elites +

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 155pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [13 PL, 190pts]: 2x Twin lascannon

Wulfen [11 PL, 227pts]
. 4x Thunder hammer & Stormshield: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer
. 4x Wulfen
. Wulfen Pack Leader: Frost claws

Wulfen [11 PL, 227pts]
. 4x Thunder hammer & Stormshield: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer
. 4x Wulfen
. Wulfen Pack Leader: Frost claws

++ Total: [115 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

 

Two stormwolf to cart the Wulfen all with TH/SS. The wolf priests give them reroll in fight phase plus give them leadership. Njal is in one for psyker protection. The primaris LT sits back with the two dreds giving them reroll of 1 on wounds. The primaris troop squat on objectives.

 

I have 6 las cannons, 4 helfrost cannons and about a million attacks from the Wulfen. The WP with Njal has the Armor of Russ relic to keep something from fighting until last. It is fun, fluffy and should I hope give me at least a chance of victory.

 

I played against Death Guard with this list and they conceded at the end of turn 2. I got first turn and while they were able to kill one Stormwolf with 3 PBC set up as artillery and 3 MBH pouring all their shots into it. The two Wulfen squads with their support attached were in their face and locked up the vehicles.

 

The two dreds did a good job at shooting and the surviving Stormwolf also did its work. The Intercessors excelled at 2+ cover saves on objectives. I fully expected to lose this game but the two Wulfen squads were too much. Very fun game and frankly one I needed to finally see a victory for the Sons of Russ.


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#22
TiguriusX

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Infiltrators also get better when playing ITC or any progressive scoring scenario. Getting those early objective points or points for Recon and such.

Good in Maelstrom for the same reason.


i just bought 10 infiltrators for this very reason

battalion cp and board control

they go inside a building with no LOS and just provide a bubble and earn recon points

bonus hq protection as well with proper positioning

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#23
Kassill

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So, what am I missing that people are unwilling to post?

These halls are colder than ever it feels (Of course Im a filthy lurker, so who am I to speak about it teehee.gif )

I'm thinking people are just feeling a little down on our codex at the moment. I'm reading a lot of negativity about our book, so maybe people don't feel that they can say what's working? Dunno.

Personally, I've not been playing much, my LGS closed down and the next one is an hour away.

Sorry about your LGS. I have experience that in the past. 

Everybody is unhappy with our codex 

 

 

So what is wrong with our codex? Is it the codex itself or is it how it matches up to other ones? I don't play nearly enough to know from tabletop experience, so I rely solely on reading here. Is it that CP management/generation is so strong for some armies? Is it mobility like one brother mentioned? Just curious to learn the gripes of my kin. 

Also I would be curious to know if anyone has been using the Beta Bolter rules. I played my first game of 8th in a long time this weekend and I was going to give it a try and totally forgot about when the day came. If you have used it, does it seem to be what was needed for marines in general? 


Edited by Kassill, 01 April 2019 - 01:26 PM.

Lo, there do I see my fallen kinsmen, Threads cut by the foe I now seek. In bloody battle I will engage him, And carve my vengeance from his flesh. No ale shall pass my lips, At no feast will I indulge. No foe shall stay my wrath, Until my brothers are avenged. Ever shall I hunt my quarry, Across the Sea of Stars. Whilst I yet breathe, I will not falter, Until Morkai claims his due.--Bjorn's Oath of the Lone Wolf

#24
jbickb

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So my opinion on where we struggle is similar to the problems of all marine armies at the moment. We are in the era of the hoard. Elite armies suffer in this rule set and new 8th edition armor pen makes the 3+ save not what it once was. Space wolves have an extra knock versus other marines because we dont have access to cheap scout troops like other marines which seem to be how other marines try to compensate. But basically all marines struggle without souping due to the benefits in this rule set toward horde type armies.
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#25
WolfLordZeev

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Yeah Marines and close combat are in a tough spot...we are marines who focus on close combat...so doubling up on the hurt.
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