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Is the Terminus Ultra for open play only?


Ishagu

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Well it's puzzling because it's in the Index, and according to GW all Index units are still legal.

 

It's also in the open play section of Chapter Approved 2017. It's the only chapter unique Landraider variant found in both books, and I don't believe that CA 2017 invalidates the index entry.

 

CA 2017 is a strange one as it's no longer sold. Now, if I own the index and the codex, alongside CA 2018, what indication is there that the unit can't be run in all games?

Edited by Ishagu
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Sounds like a question for the GW rules team, I think. In particular, it'd be useful to find out what happens with the rules in CA2017 when the book is no longer sold.

Iirc they've answered that before the release of CA17. The rules stay valid and if you want to use them you gotta buy the book before it's sold out. Only the point changes inside get invalidated by the release of a new CA.

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Index units are still legal, but does that necessarily  mean "match play" legal?

 

I agree with Casman, I recall when the datasheet came out it was for funsies only. I remember this clearly because I preordered the sprues and was most assuredly going to use it with my Ultra's until the bad news came out.

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Sounds like a question for the GW rules team, I think. In particular, it'd be useful to find out what happens with the rules in CA2017 when the book is no longer sold.

Iirc they've answered that before the release of CA17. The rules stay valid and if you want to use them you gotta buy the book before it's sold out. Only the point changes inside get invalidated by the release of a new CA.

So it's NOT restricted to open play only? lol

 

This is a bit annoying. The unit isn't even that competitive. I was thinking of putting one together for fun.

The CA2017 rules might stay valid, but I'm not using them. I'm using the Index entry and the updated costs in CA2018 (It does list the Terminus with a point value)

Edited by Ishagu
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I don't know if the OR rules gurus would tell us anything different - the most up-to-date rules are in CA2017, so those are technically the rules for use in 40k. I think falling back to the Index rules in this case would be a "house rule" thing.
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Sounds like a question for the GW rules team, I think. In particular, it'd be useful to find out what happens with the rules in CA2017 when the book is no longer sold.

Iirc they've answered that before the release of CA17. The rules stay valid and if you want to use them you gotta buy the book before it's sold out. Only the point changes inside get invalidated by the release of a new CA.

So it's NOT restricted to open play only? lol

 

This is a bit annoying. The unit isn't even that competitive. I was thinking of putting one together for fun.

The CA2017 rules might stay valid, but I'm not using them. I'm using the Index entry and the updated costs in CA2018 (It does list the Terminus with a point value)

 

 

Not sure how you got to this conclusion from my post. If anything it's an argument pro open play only. That being said I'm in camp "ask GW" as it's the first and only case of an Index datasheet getting moved to some weird open play make your own unit rules.

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Terminus Ultra isn't in the Codex, and Chapter Approved is not a Codex, therefore you use the Index rules as per the below flowchart from GW.

 

Index rules are matched play legal.

n3g7779rddyz.jpg

 

I think we all know this chart. If the question were that simple to answer it would've been answered already.

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Did CA2017 ever truly overwrite the Index entry? The other open play only Landraiders had no point costs. Either way it's no longer published.

 

Does an FAQ exist to state that the flowchart doesn't apply in all cases?

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Did CA2017 ever truly overwrite the Index entry? 

That's the question.

Iirc, the only time Chapter Approved overwrites an Index entry is if it's an UPDATED Data-sheet, like how the Renegade Knight and Intercessors have.

 

CA2017 has an exact, 1 to 1 copy & paste of the Index datasheet of Terminus Ultra.

 

So.... Imo, the Index Datasheet is legal for Matched Play.

 

I would say that an Ultramarines army can use a Terminus Ultra for matched play, as they have access to it via the Index, but all other chapters who gained access to it via Chapter Approved can only use it for open play.

Yes, that's also a good point.

Edited by Gederas
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I think we all know this chart. If the question were that simple to answer it would've been answered already.

 

It's a simple question with a simple answer based on the information we've already been given to resolve these kinds of questions. 

 

 

Did CA2017 ever truly overwrite the Index entry? 

That's the question.

 

We have to assume things follow the normal rules unless we are told that they do not. The flowchart on which datasheets to use is from GW design studio, so is a "ruling" on the subject. That flowchart tells us that because there isn't a Terminus Ultra Datasheet in the Codex, we use the one in the index. 

 

CA2017 describes the Land Raider datasheets (including Terminus Ultra) as "examples we have created ourselves" using "guidelines on how to write open play datasheets for simple Land Raider conversions". Not as new datasheets that overrule existing ones.

 

For comparison, consider Chapter Approved 2018, which explicitly states that the new datasheets for Intercessors, Daemons etc "replace those published in earlier publications."

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I think the fact that the 2018 edition explicitly states it replaces the existing datasheets it makes it more clear.

 

Ok, thanks everyone. I shall build a Terminus Ultra. It will be dead turn 1 against any Castellan but at least it will look cool lol

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The index is available but CA2017 isn’t therefore the index is legal yet CA2017 isn’t ..

 

That's not how things go. GW already said that all the rules in CA17 are still viable. It's just a case of "too bad if you missed out on it".

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