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Siege of Terra Rampant Speculation and Wishlisting Thread

Horus Heresy Horus heresy black library Aaron Dembski-Bowden Dan Abnett Guy Haley Gav Thorpe Chris Wraight John French

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#76
fire golem

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Custodes all have melee weapons, their guns are just part of their melee weapons in fact. Melee is mostly their thing.

#77
Moonreaper666

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Custodes all have melee weapons, their guns are just part of their melee weapons in fact. Melee is mostly their thing.


Since I don't know their basic tactics? Do they shoot first from afar before advacing or are they like the Black Templars and World Eaters in that they charge in guns blazing?

If the former, then Daemons of Tzeentch and Nurgle would devastate them with range attacks. The Custodes Spear is reloaded by a nearby escort while the Custodes Spearman fight with something else

#78
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I've brought it up before, but since Sangy absolutely wrecked Ka'Bandha in Fear to Tread, what are people's thoughts on Daemon Angron taking his place as Sanguinius' big moment at the Eternity Gate? I could really see either, Ka'Bandha as a rematch loses a lot of its impact since Sanguinius has beat him once (easily) already, but considering the author lineup I think any advertised could still make it work. Sanguinius holds it on his own for days, he could be practically crippled by the time Ka'Bandha shows up.

 

On the other hand, Sangy vs Angron is one of the few primarch punch-outs I'd actually like to see.


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#79
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Kind of worried they do that. Fear to Tread was a real screw up.

Having Sanguinius fight Angron then go after Horus? I don't know.

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#80
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I dont mind them fighting. IIRC Angron is the one that goes to ask the loyalists to surrender, and then Sanguinius refuses..... Angron is not one to go "hm ok let me go back to the reserve in Horus' army". Him charging at Sanguinius is much more to the character....



#81
pandion40

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I've brought it up before, but since Sangy absolutely wrecked Ka'Bandha in Fear to Tread, what are people's thoughts on Daemon Angron taking his place as Sanguinius' big moment at the Eternity Gate? I could really see either, Ka'Bandha as a rematch loses a lot of its impact since Sanguinius has beat him once (easily) already, but considering the author lineup I think any advertised could still make it work. Sanguinius holds it on his own for days, he could be practically crippled by the time Ka'Bandha shows up.
 
On the other hand, Sangy vs Angron is one of the few primarch punch-outs I'd actually like to see.


It’s going to need A+ writing to make the Sanguinius v Ka’bandha compelling after the end of Fear to Tread. They could go the other way and have Ka’bandha step up and get humiliated again, that would explain his obsession with the BA in 40k at least.

I would be fine with them replacing Ka’bandha with Angron though as long as there’s a resolution, which would have to be Angrons banishment as Sanguinius has another date later. Or Sanguinius could fight the red Angel, the other one that is, if he’s still around as I’m a bit behind.

Since a Deamons power in the material universe depends mainly on how good a connection to the warp they have they could say the symbolic nature of the siege means there is more warp energy about so Ka’bandha is stronger. It’ll be a bit suspect though as Signus was a well prepared trap with plenty of prep time for those all important rituals.

#82
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I dont mind them fighting. IIRC Angron is the one that goes to ask the loyalists to surrender, and then Sanguinius refuses..... Angron is not one to go "hm ok let me go back to the reserve in Horus' army". Him charging at Sanguinius is much more to the character....

 

Right, but its not like with Russ, nose to nose. This was with Sang' up on the wall to end all walls, and they simply acknowledge that its war time, not talking time.


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#83
mc warhammer

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I dont mind them fighting. IIRC Angron is the one that goes to ask the loyalists to surrender, and then Sanguinius refuses..... Angron is not one to go "hm ok let me go back to the reserve in Horus' army". Him charging at Sanguinius is much more to the character....


Right, but its not like with Russ, nose to nose. This was with Sang' up on the wall to end all walls, and they simply acknowledge that its war time, not talking time.

which is cool enough on its own.
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#84
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Having Sanguinius to be the first to banish Daemon Angron is a fine idea. Ka'Bandha R2 doesn't really appeal to me. 

 

I'm fine with such a retcon as it would actually work IMO



#85
mc warhammer

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as a kabads substitute, sure

as a primarch to primarch scene in its own right? i think the stare down is much cooler
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#86
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Either way, I don't really want a Ka'bandha re-hash



#87
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I think Sanguinius vs Angron could work well as an initial reveal of a Primarch really unlocking much more of their genetic/warp potential to compete with a Daemon Primarch, tying in with what we've seen them do with Corax recently. It would be a great cathartic scene of brief loyalist defiance if written well and is a good choice with Swallow  havingchanging the impact of the old lore.

 

On the other hand i do worry a good chunk of the fanbase-not on here, but i see it a lot in places with much more traffic like 40klore on reddit- have really lost sight of Sanguinius original essence as a character...the weight and tragedy of his story in being a normal,  severely battle weary primarch going up against great corrupted power that is now beyond him or any of his other brothers knowing he has no chance due to his haunting visions and still refusing to bend the knee, in favour of wanting a souped up version that is way better at everything than everyone else, going well beyond subtle hints laid over the series that he's one of the better fighters or most well rounded which is fine.

 

Something like this fight done heavy handedly could possibly end up bringing not much to the lore other than furthering that sort of Dragon Ball power levels way of looking at things and turning Sang further into a "he really is the best of them" primarch outside of subtle hints in the thoughts of his brothers etc,  is something i worry is having a lot of younger entrants into the lore lose sight of the original greatness of the character in the HH tale.

 

At the end of the day how BL deal with the Vengeful spirit confrontation will be much more important than him fighting Angron or not, and i really hope we still get the original character of that and not some epic battle that will all but scream "only the chaos gods gave Horus a chance of winning here", something i feel is fanservice quite a few would enjoy, but really does not have the weight of the early classic lore.


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#88
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Well then, anyone of you who might have had a history of contacting ADB, go ahead and do it again. Tell him to change all the "Ka'Bandha" in the Word Doc to "Angron".
It might not be too late... Unless he already has the same idea as you.
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#89
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As I recall, in the old lore, Ka'bandha won the initial encounter on Signus by breaking Sanguinius' legs, right? After Ka'bandha did that to their primarch, how did the Blood Angels manage to drive him off? IIRC, the BA flew into a rage and managed to banish the daemons and Ka'bandha at great cost? 



#90
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As per Visions of Death, Sanguinius dealt a near-fatal wound to Ka'Bandha while the daemon crushed Sangy's legs. Ka'Bandha then killed the 500 legionaries and fled, Sanguinius going comatose and his legion flying into a rage that eventually saw the planet cleansed. Presumably Sanguinius recovered in time to behead Kyriss. Seeing his whole legion was in despair because of what they had done, Sanguinius vowed revenge on Ka'Bandha whenever they next met.

 

So presumably he left of his own accord, or was incidentally finished off by the raging Blood Angels. After the leg-breaking, Sanguinius didn't see him until Terra.

 

Again, in the hands of someone like Aaron I think a rematch could work. Ka'Bandha's a bit of a worm in FtT, it's in character to wait until Sanguinius is worn to the point of exhaustion before showing up.


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#91
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Shiban Khan and Hibou (if he's alive it there) to come through alive. Just let Shiban make it, he's been through enough.

#92
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Ah yes, Hibou...the guy who gave Aximand a face-lift.

 

It would be cool if somehow he made it back to Terra and linked up with Shiban. Seems like a long-shot, bu we know from PoD, that quite a number of vessels are reaching the edge of Sol almost daily, some loyalist and perhaps more not. Not inconceivable that a few Sagyar Mazan kill-squads (those that didn't hear or heed the Khan's summons) decide to race for Terra.  



#93
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Shiban was last seen charging the Death Guard drop assault the end of Restorer wasn't he? He'll have been Gabriel Santar'd just after that scene once he witnesses the horrific decaying corruption of his former allies, the old "hesitates for a split second at the decisive moment" trope kicking in.biggrin.png



#94
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Well then, anyone of you who might have had a history of contacting ADB, go ahead and do it again. Tell him to change all the "Ka'Bandha" in the Word Doc to "Angron".
It might not be too late... Unless he already has the same idea as you.

 

ADB has a habit of fixing other author's screw ups, so if it is ADB writing that scene, just leave it at Kabandha, he will make it all work regardless.


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#95
Rob P

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I want something more of Lorgar - doesn't need to be in this series, but I want to see how he either ends of a daemon prince or dead.

 

He's such an interesting character (if a little uneven in how he has been portrayed in the heresy).

 

I love that he went full undivided and then essentially got betrayed by chaos - the first victim of chaos being chaotic and self defeating.

 

He has so much potential.



#96
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Shiban was last seen charging the Death Guard drop assault the end of Restorer wasn't he? He'll have been Gabriel Santar'd just after that scene once he witnesses the horrific decaying corruption of his former allies, the old "hesitates for a split second at the decisive moment" trope kicking in.biggrin.png


I doubt Wraight's going to do that, particularly given the reel of horrors what Shiban recalls in the same story.

#97
Fedor

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Yeah i would certainly hope Wraight doesn't do that, just meant as a joke.

 

On Lorgar, i always thought it would sum up Chaos well if one of the primarchs that went that route ended up a mindless spawn instead of ascending, the old lore about him locking himself away after the heresy to study chaos seemed a good front for a Legion that was deeply ashamed by what their Primarch had become. It would be a grimly ironic ending for him and i thought would still be a fitting conclusion for the way he was expanded on and portrayed by ADB in the heresy, especially with the way the concept of chaos undivided has been changing in the newer lore.



#98
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Yeah i would certainly hope Wraight doesn't do that, just meant as a joke.

On Lorgar, i always thought it would sum up Chaos well if one of the primarchs that went that route ended up a mindless spawn instead of ascending, the old lore about him locking himself away after the heresy to study chaos seemed a good front for a Legion that was deeply ashamed by what their Primarch had become. It would be a grimly ironic ending for him and i thought would still be a fitting conclusion for the way he was expanded on and portrayed by ADB in the heresy, especially with the way the concept of chaos undivided has been changing in the newer lore.


There's a story set post heresy about him fighting corax and the seclusion starting post fight.

So that's not going to happen.

#99
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Yeah i would certainly hope Wraight doesn't do that, just meant as a joke.

On Lorgar, i always thought it would sum up Chaos well if one of the primarchs that went that route ended up a mindless spawn instead of ascending, the old lore about him locking himself away after the heresy to study chaos seemed a good front for a Legion that was deeply ashamed by what their Primarch had become. It would be a grimly ironic ending for him and i thought would still be a fitting conclusion for the way he was expanded on and portrayed by ADB in the heresy, especially with the way the concept of chaos undivided has been changing in the newer lore.

There's a story set post heresy about him fighting corax and the seclusion starting post fight.

So that's not going to happen.

Lorgar does not participate in the Sol System, banished by Horus. Lorgar ascended during the Great Scouring

#100
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There's a story set post heresy about him fighting corax and the seclusion starting post fight.

So that's not going to happen.

 

 

Well I mean it's rampant wishlisting, so I can wishlist Shadows of the Past into some kind of fever-dream, perhaps by Corax himself.

 

My other big want (maybe already fulfilled? I haven't been spoiled on Solar War) is for Horus to display any kind of tactical ability, like at all. we sure hear a lot about it for something that has barely manifested in the series at large.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Horus Heresy, Horus, heresy, black library, Aaron Dembski-Bowden, Dan Abnett, Guy Haley, Gav Thorpe, Chris Wraight, John French

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