New Renegade Chapters Ideas

[Lord Asvaldir]

So all I'm sure many of you are very tempted by the new renegade traits as I am, and I am curious to hear some thoughts on the new renegade chapters and their rules. There's a pretty full review of all the new stuff coming in vigilius here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN2hmZyzhaI

 

Overall, I think Red Corsairs come out as the strongest of the new chapters, but I'm also biased because I love how those rules really incentivise you to take basic marine squads. I don't really see the point of taking tons of normal marines in any other traitor legion/renegade chapter. Plus their 3cp stratagem to bring back a unit seems incredibly strong to me, especially when a Red Corsairs army will always have loads of CP for that. 

 

That being said, The Purge and The Scourged both seem solid to me. Scourged is just solid all around, trait that is always useful along with a good stratagem and warlord trait, while the Purge rules seem to work well with focusing down one target at a time, while shooting into combat from their stratagem is fun. 

 

Flawless Host seem sorta middle of the field, Death to the False Emperor against everyone is nice especially since it stacks against imperials, and it seems like with traits/relics they can make some mean characters. 

 

Crimson Slaughter and Brazen Beasts seem ok, but not all that exciting. The Crimson Slaughter CP generation is just outclassed by how many CP Red Corsairs start with, though their stratagem is reasonable. Brazen Beast trait doesn't seem all that exciting to me, it would work well for a melee army with units that can output a load of attacks, but then you have to build the army around using that well. I do find it odd though that their warlord trait is just straight up twice as good as the World Eaters trait.

 

What does everyone else think? I'm strongly leaning towards Red Corsairs, but Purge and Scourged are also still in the running for me since they are nice all rounder traits. 

[Dumah]

I've been eyeballing Daemonkin Ritualists or Host Raptorial to combine with Brazen Beasts rules... Possessed running amok, buffed by their Greater kin and an Apostle or two that will murder things hard on 6s to wound... OR: Khornate Warp Talons and Raptors for near guaranteed charges from Deep Strike and that extra oomph for chewing through armor when the Brazen trait pops off.

 

Effective? Probably not terribly. But fun? So much of it!

[Lord Asvaldir]

I mean I do think that's part of the beauty of the new rules, a lot of stuff which was has been pretty eh in the past (possessed, warp talons to use your example), do actually have some benefits going for them now. Brazen beasts seem to be in an odd place though, units with no ap like raptors benefit a lot, warp talons which already have -2 don't need it as much. Idk, just doesn't seem as exciting as other traits to me. 

[Dumah]

Here's a better one: Purge Trait combined with Devastation Battery. A unit of Oblits or Chaincannon Havocs being buffed by the +1 to hit Apostle Prayer. If you should do a wound to your target (which you should), then all your infantry/bikers/hellbrutes reroll all to hit rolls against that unit. And then you have the WL trait which allows rerolls of 1 to wound against vehicles.

 

The one thing I wonder is how the Stratagem that allows you to fire at an enemy unit at the end of their movement phase interacts with the Chapter Trait, which specifies that the enemy unit must have been wounded in the turn that you shoot/fight? I suppose that would allow for rerolls in CC should your enemy charge you, but what about overwatch? It doesn't specify "phase" just "turn".

 

Also, I've seen/heard nothing disallowing the use of other marks in Renegade Chapters i.e. Mark of Slaanesh in The Purge... Rather unfluffy, I know, but there you are.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Devastation battery is probably going to be a good take for any chapter, but yes it certainly interacts very well with The Purge trait where you want to hit a big enemy target with something that will definetly get a wound through, then the rest of your units get the rerolls. It's going to be particularly good against big targets like knights. Combined with that warlord trait your backfield firing line will do well against knights. 

 

I am not sure about the stratagem, will have to wait to read the exact wording to clarify that. 

 

I also haven't seen anything about marks and renegade traits, which yeah fluff wise does not interact well with 4/6 of these new chapters being mostly god specific, but I could see that being added in the faq. 

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

Well you're going to have to start taking Marines because cultists no longer get legion traits.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'm not so sure that's how it works. They don't gain the trait benefit but they still have the keyword as far as I know to be <Black Legion> or whatever your faction is. Seems to me cultists are the same as our vehicles, still in the faction but no benefit. 

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

That's what I was trying to say.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Right so if I want to fill out a battalion of Black Legion, I can still take cultists as my troops, and I'm sure in many cases people will still take cultists because basic marines haven't really gotten much of a buff. Red Corsairs are the exception because there's a direct incentive to take marines. 

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

Let The Galaxy Burn is good on Marines.

[ambit]

Flawless Host Daemon Prince with Elixir and Talons.

 

Cast prescience

Will have 8 attacks Str 8 ap-2 d2

Rerolling 1s Hitting on 2s Plus 1 to hit, meaning exploding dice of 5s

You’ll get plus 5 attacks for every exploding dice

With a average roll of just 2 5s in every combat you’ll get 23 attacks.

28 if you roll 3 5s.

All on a 180pt model.

[Dumah]

Any thoughts on how best to take advantage of The Scourged's rules? Chaincannon's seem like a good shout for the 5+ overwatch, but what about more offensively? I'm trying to think of best uses for the one reroll each unit gets when it shoots or fights. Maybe Helbrutes with lascannons? Power Fists all around?

[tbone]

A Soulforged Pack Spearhead with 3 Maulerfiends and a Lord Discordant, using the Brazen Beasts strat at the end of each fight phase seems pretty good

[Brother Aiwass]

A Soulforged Pack Spearhead with 3 Maulerfiends and a Lord Discordant, using the Brazen Beasts strat at the end of each fight phase seems pretty good

And fluffy!

[Lord Asvaldir]

Flawless Host Daemon Prince with Elixir and Talons.

 

Cast prescience

Will have 8 attacks Str 8 ap-2 d2

Rerolling 1s Hitting on 2s Plus 1 to hit, meaning exploding dice of 5s

You’ll get plus 5 attacks for every exploding dice

With a average roll of just 2 5s in every combat you’ll get 23 attacks.

28 if you roll 3 5s.

All on a 180pt model.

 

I think you can even make the extra attack proc on 4s if you give the daemon prince the +1 to hit prayer, but I'm not sure if that can stack with prescience. 

 

 

Any thoughts on how best to take advantage of The Scourged's rules? Chaincannon's seem like a good shout for the 5+ overwatch, but what about more offensively? I'm trying to think of best uses for the one reroll each unit gets when it shoots or fights. Maybe Helbrutes with lascannons? Power Fists all around?

 

I think the Scourged rules work pretty well as an all rounders army, since the reroll 1s works in both shooting and melee you can really go any direction you want. Havocs and obliterators certainly benefit a lot from the rerolls, and you save some character points by not really need a chaos lord since his aura is much less useful when a lot of the army already has reroll 1s. 

[Guzzlrr]

I've committed to a Black legion force now but I must admit I'm looking at the purge and now thinking I likey might try their traits in a game after Abaddons sheen has faded a little. Lol

[Lord Asvaldir]

Purge abilities just seem interesting, rerolls to hit once something has been wounded really helps you deal with big targets and rewards a MSU style list, while shooting into melee is just fun. Relic isn't too special, but the warlord trait is nice on a beatstick character.  

[Dumah]

Just to be clear: the Scourged can reroll a single miss for one model per unit (similar to Sa'cea Tau and Salamanders) each time they shoot or fight; so one shot and one melee attack only. A lot of the leak compilations are misrepresenting their rule as rerolls for all ones to hit.

 

MSU and high strength, low shot/attack weapons benefit most from this.

[Panzer]

 

Flawless Host Daemon Prince with Elixir and Talons.

 

Cast prescience

Will have 8 attacks Str 8 ap-2 d2

Rerolling 1s Hitting on 2s Plus 1 to hit, meaning exploding dice of 5s

You’ll get plus 5 attacks for every exploding dice

With a average roll of just 2 5s in every combat you’ll get 23 attacks.

28 if you roll 3 5s.

All on a 180pt model.

 

I think you can even make the extra attack proc on 4s if you give the daemon prince the +1 to hit prayer, but I'm not sure if that can stack with prescience. 

 

 

 

From the screenshot I've seen the +1 to hit prayer works only on ranged attacks and the +1 to wound prayer only on melee attacks. Not that the Dark Apostle could keep up with a Daemon Prince in the first place anyway lol

[Lord Asvaldir]

Ahh I missed that, guess it's just procing on 5s then which is still good. 

 

 

Just to be clear: the Scourged can reroll a single miss for one model per unit (similar to Sa'cea Tau and Salamanders) each time they shoot or fight; so one shot and one melee attack only. A lot of the leak compilations are misrepresenting their rule as rerolls for all ones to hit.

MSU and high strength, low shot/attack weapons benefit most from this.

 

Missed that as well, that's not quite as good but still definetly useful. In that case the best weapons to take are meltas, lascannons etc, low shots high strength. MSU marine squads with one heavy weapon each is probably a good way to go as scourged then.  

[Dumah]

How about Cult of the Damned Detachment combined with the Purge's strat for shooting into close combat? You can tar pit with the cultists and blast away with the rest of your army with little downside. The enemy would either have to fall back and become useless, or eat the volleys. Add in the +1 to wound prayer for giggles, and your cultist blob becomes morale immune all game for killing one model in the fight phase OR give them -1 to hit if you're worried about them getting there.