TempestBlade Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 So with Shadowspear I want to make a chaos force. I have a question about the Khorne Berzerkers fight twice rules. So if I charge with them how does it work? Do I fight first (since I charged) then fight again (because I charged) or fight first then it goes to alternating sequences? Hope that makes sense. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 You fight twice before your opponent gets to fight. Yes, this is as ridiculous and glorious as it sounds. Dragonlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominikB Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I’ve always read it as 2 +1 to fight picks, so you’re opponent could interrupt or go in between if they have a rule to make them also fight at the +1 stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dice4thedicegod Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 The other question I’ve seen is: World Eaters berserkers, do they get the extra attack for charging both times they fight, or only one of the times? (I think it’s both, but opinions seem to be divided) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 The other question I’ve seen is: World Eaters berserkers, do they get the extra attack for charging both times they fight, or only one of the times? (I think it’s both, but opinions seem to be divided) It's still the same Fight phase, so yes. They get an extra attack both times they fight after they charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempestBlade Posted March 24, 2019 Author Share Posted March 24, 2019 Ok thanks! Man now I want 2 squads of 15 with a Priest prayers. What’s the best way to run them? Rhino? Footsloughing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Transports, for sure. 15 in a unit complicates that a little. However, maybe there's a new stratagem to help in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I like units of 8 with chainsword/chainaxe with a powerfist on the champ. Always take the icon for reroll charges. Failed charges = you lose. I would wait a ew months before buying zerkers atm though. They are highly likely to get new models or even new rules this year. Also I would strongly recommend AGAINST getting the new dark apostle for use with berzerkers since you cannot use the new prayers if you start the turn in a transport. Just use a chaos lord to reroll 1s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempestBlade Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Ok. I was going to kitbash some from the AoS blood warriors. I’m in the middle of a move so it will be months before I get to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dice4thedicegod Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Yeah, I used blood warriors (with chainswords and backpacks ) as berzerkers, blood reavers (with holstered pistols) as cultists ‘with brutal assault weapons’ and a khorgoroth with blood thirster headswap as a daemon prince. AoS has some useful stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Herald Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 If I'm not mistaken, FAQ/Errata has clarified that both attacks happen in the "Charging units right first" timeframe. It might be in the core rules faq on the fight phase though. The bonus attack is there both times they fight aswell. I used to run 8 in a Rhino with a Dark Apostle, Exalted Champion, and mostly chainswords on the Berzerkers. Lots of attacks, re-roll failed hits and wounds, they grinded things. After disembarking, charge with he Rhino first to soak overwatch. Now, I'm not very happy with the changes to the Dark Apostle. A lord might be ok in the place of an apostle, but they are less effective than the old apostle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Ok. I was going to kitbash some from the AoS blood warriors. I’m in the middle of a move so it will be months before I get to it Yeah, I used blood warriors (with chainswords and backpacks ) as berzerkers, blood reavers (with holstered pistols) as cultists ‘with brutal assault weapons’ and a khorgoroth with blood thirster headswap as a daemon prince. AoS has some useful stuff! Can confirm AoS Khorne stuff is excellent for World Eaters: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Regarding the sequence of multiple fight activations per unit, refer to the Rulebook FAQ. Essentially, treat each activation as if it came from a different unit. So, if you have two units with this ability that charged, it's treated the same as if you charged with four units instead. Yes, this means your opponent can spend CPs to interrupt. Blood Warriors are perfect for Berzerker conversions. Even better now with the new CSM box coming out, all you need to do is use Blood Warrior heads and find a source of chainaxes. Even if/when new Berzerkers come out, I suspect these conversions will fit the aesthetic just fine. As for unit configurations, I prefer units of 10 in Rhinos. Units of eight might be considered more fluffy, but I don't feel like unit organisation is a priority for World Eaters - I feel like they would just stuff as many dudes as can fit in a transport. I prefer Rhinos over footslogging, since they only cost around the same as four Berzerkers, but will save you more than that in casualties. Chainaxes are amazing - for one point, each Berzerker hits harder than a twin heavy bolter. Chainaxe + chainsword combo is ideal, but if you can't find the bits then I suggest just going with a chainaxe and bolt pistol. Chainswords are still good, but the extra attack is only better against anything weaker than power armour, and those are going to evaporate against Berzerkers either way. Throw a power fist on the Champion for good measure. Now, I'm not very happy with the changes to the Dark Apostle. A lord might be ok in the place of an apostle, but they are less effective than the old apostle. On the other hand, Chaos Lords are a lot more flexible in terms of wargear, especially now they'll be able to take thunder hammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempestBlade Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Very nice Gederas! That is what I’ll be going for. Also chainsword give +1 attack with the chainsword so each would be 2 chainaxe + 1 chajbsword attack right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Very nice Gederas! That is what I’ll be going for. Also chainsword give +1 attack with the chainsword so each would be 2 chainaxe + 1 chajbsword attack right? Yup. Each Berzerker has 3 Attacks (2 Chainaxe, Chainsword), Champ has 4. This is increased by 1 when they charge. And then they fight twice, still with those 4/5 Attacks. CHOP CHOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 http://bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/gallery/album_15347/gallery_93074_15347_29661.jpg Here is a size comparison of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempestBlade Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Man the new sculps just look so much better! If they aren’t out by August I’ll be kitbashing some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardaric Vaanes Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Rhinos are fun and all, but for those times I absolutely want to cram as many bodies down my opponents throat as possible my Storm Eagle is my way to go... 18x Berzerkers, Khârn and a Dark apostle leaping out of a gunship in your opponents deployment zone really brings the hurt and sows complete terror when it goes off. Focus down any dedicated AA first though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Blank Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Agree on the rhinos and chainaxes, if they reach the enemy, it will hurt, a lot. Old Dark Apostle was a great buffer but sounds like he got more expensive and less effective for this particular use. Exalted champion is worth considering too due to the high number of attacks that can be affected. With VotLW, an apostle and a chamion, I've dealt more wounds than I had attacks on profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Dark Apostle is (well, will be) great to protect a Storm Eagle in T1. Sit him outside the Eagle to start, chant the -1 to hit prayer on it, then let it zoom away. Whether you go first or second, it'll be at -2 to be hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempestBlade Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 I think the Dark Apostle will be great with the Berzerkers. If you go brazen beasts give them the +1 to wound and then on 5+ you get ap -4. Or give them the 5++. Or the -1 to hit. So many great options for them. And at 110 points with the hypebros helping the DA that’s not too bad! No chance of the opponent denying like psychic powers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 AoS Khorne stuff does work great for Berzerkers, though it takes a bit of work to fix the lower legs, either by swapping or by greenstuff (I used gs). I thought the AoS heads looked so cool I kept them, even though power armour masks makes a lot more sense. I also agree that the Icon is paramount. They are really squishy (like most MEQs), so they really need to hit first and hit hard, otherwise they just go poof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhorke The First Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Also keep the Spartan Assault tank in mind for a transport that can carry a lot of berzerkers, take a lot of punishment, and dish out a lot of firepower. However, it does have two major drawbacks in that: 1. It costs a lot of points. 2. It looks scary, so your opponents are likely to focus much of their fire on it. I find it is most effective when you have other vehicles that force your opponent to split their fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Chaplain Matthias+ Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 One more AoS Khorne Berzerker for the pile. This time with space wolves flair https://i.imgur.com/gqQvYCJ.jpg I have yet to run my Berzerkers but I was planning to do the typical 8zerks+exalted champ+apostle in a rhino. But after reading through this thread, I'm questioning the apostle for this role. I had assumed the new prayers happened during the psykic phase. This changes things. Hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhitar Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 My chaos tournament list features a World Eaters battalion with 3 squads of 9 zerkers in rhinos, kitted out as advised above - all axes and swords, and fists/icons on the champ. I ally in some other csm sorcerers for prescience + warp time (especially good to get dttfe on a 5+). One party bus includes an exalted champ with a power sword, which becomes the murder sword if the enemy has an anti cc character, like Bobby G. I finish the batt with a chaos lord. They kind of want VotLW every turn. I’ve had (more than once) a properly buffed 9 man squad in range of the champion take a knight from hero to zero in one activation. It’s great. If you want to get the most mileage out of them, there is a lot of practice to be done in calling targets and pinning enemy characters so you don’t get shot right off the board after your first charge. I love them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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